26th January 2005 at 1:49 am #40359HeadgehogParticipant
Discuss all you want here. Don’t need to worry about the honest yanks who haven’t seen the episode yet.
I knew Adama was going to be shot. Its one of the downfalls of working on the site, that I have to be spoiled to upload some stuff. Despite this, the way they pulled it off was still a nice surprise.
I thought the Basestar nuking was anticlimatic. Having all the Boomers approach the nuke, rather then show the Raptor race out of the Basestar, ruined the tension for me.
Roslin’s arrest was another surprise, it played out nicely. I’ve got lots to discuss about the episode. But I first want to get the review done. LexxLurker sent me his half quickly, so now I need to get working on my half, lest I’ll feel guilty.26th January 2005 at 7:37 pm #73986kevininspaceParticipant
I disagree about the basestar explosion being anticlimactic – this was not deathstar destruction redux, this series is too smart for that. The climax to the Boomer storyline happens when she ventilates Adama. A very cool looking explosion though 🙂
The real shocker for me is in the gogovernmentakeover. Anything can be done for the next season with any of the sci-fi/fantasy storylines (ala ‘The Search for Spock”) but the coup is human interaction and should have longterm consequnces. This series is good about ‘keeping it real’ with the characters so I wonder how Adama and Roslin will ever get along again.
Did Adama radically over react with Roslin? I think not:
She broke both promises to Adama; to leave military matters to him (or at least defer), and to keep his Earth secret.
She turned his most trusted warrior against him, one that is even quasi-family. Starbuck is also is very senior. Adama would instinctivly see this as a threat to military disipline and thus a threat to humanity as the fleet absolutely depends on the efficient funtioning of the battlestar.
Roslin sited as the reason for this amazing betrayal as the need to get the ‘Arrow of Apollo’ which Adama sees as reckless fantasy . He may even know that Rosin is taking hallucinogens.
Roslin commendeered the cylon raider which was the best chance to rescue the downed raptor and it’s crew (including Baltar and the Tyrol). This is direct interference with a critical military rescue.
Adama is a patriot, but does not see the colonial government as legit. This was set up in the miniseries and had to come to a head. He seems to view the govt. as a usefull indulgence. Fine as long as it doesn’t threaten his authority.
Roslin for her part misjudged badly in thinking Adama would not react strongly and was bluffing. The guy with all the coercive power and all the presige on the line is NOT bluffing. Just ask Saddam!
That being said how could Adama order what was sure to be a bloodbath? Roslin, Elosha, Tigh, Apollo were all on Colonial One in a Mexican standoff. Did Adama judge right in thinking Roslin was bluffing or was is just the free-thinking Apollo that prevented mayhem?
I could go on with the complexity of just this incident. What a cool show!26th January 2005 at 8:32 pm #73987AnonymousGuest
Hey Kevin, nice to see you around!
A lot of what you talked about will be covered in the review 😉
Personally I think they both are wrong.
Roslin became despotic when she usurped command of the military, worse she did it through Cult of Personality. Adama was equally as wrong by deciding as Military Commander it’s his responsibility to overthrow the government. Like Apollo explained earlier, if there’s no Government, there’s no formal military, no Commanders, Captains etc…
Both are forgetting one important thing. The PEOPLE!! 😛
Command decisions aside, Adama was never granted any authority by the people, only the political representation of the people granted his authority, IE Roslin. Therefore by overthrowing Roslin, where does his authority stem from? What he could/should have done, was convened the Council and force the President to step down. Instead he decided she was an immediate threat to the Fleet and had to be removed like any other enemy. It’s a sticky situation to be sure.
The Political plot will surely carry over into next season. That among other things….Apollos’ mutiny is a Death offense, I can’t wait to see them get out of that one. And Adama is pure cliffhanger, you pointed to Search for Spock, that’s an excellent analogy. The same will apply here.
1) His contract isn’t renewed, he died on the table.
2) His contract is renewed and the shots were in the belly and it was just a lot of blood, nothing else.
But knowing the folks at BSG they’ll twist it around a bit and give us some extra surprises 😀
Ronnie Reagan got into a bit of trouble when he also thought he could bypass the Congress/Senate, so I see some trouble brewing, and good ol’ Zarek will be right on top of it to exploit it.
Welcome to Sadgeezer kevininspace!27th January 2005 at 4:46 pm #73992TosParticipant
*Holds up hands* I fully admit, I was wrong….I know less about bio cylons and pregnancy than I thought 🙂
What a ending, I never expected Boomer to pull a gun on Adama, not after she seemed to turn her back on her kind and help in the destruction of a base star. My jaw just dropped when she fired the first shot, I was caught totally my surprise.27th January 2005 at 6:00 pm #73993mechaZardozParticipant
a great pair of concluding episodes! and pt 2 only left me cursing the fact that there will be no more forthcoming … at least immediately.
i’d already been spoiled about adama’s fate – though, for the life of me i can’t recall where i’d read about it initially – but there was sufficient ambiguity to satisfy both potential contractual obligations as well as BSG’s themes of destiny vs free will. boomer certainly exhibited pre-programming on prior occasions but was still able to exhibit at least *some* measure of free will. she certainly could have killed adama outright, but she didn’t. she may have realized at the last moment what she was doing and ‘pulled’ her shot from a more lethal target. a gut wound isn’t the best, but it wasn’t his head 😉27th January 2005 at 10:45 pm #73994AnonymousGuestmechaZardoz wrote:
but it wasn’t his head 😉”Lloyd wrote:
But Harry, what if he shot you in the head?!?
That’s a risk we were willing to take.
Sorry I keep thinking of that when I watch that Adama scene 😛
Welcome aboard MechaZardoz, I can’t wait for next season either! 😀20th February 2005 at 4:52 pm #74143cubejockeyParticipant
I suspect Adama will live (he’s on contract to do the remainder of the series isnt he?).
Kobol is a trap. If 6 knows about it, the cylons must of known about it for years. I think this will play out like the original series where they landed on Carrilon. They’ll resupply, get some idea where earth is and move on. Starbuck’s got to make it back to the fleet with the arrow.
If Helo and Caprica Boomer come along for the ride with starbuck this is gonna be a wildcard. Maybe Galactica Boomer will get spaced? Maybe they’ll keep ’em both? Helo would be crazy to stay on Caprica. Helo could also flip out and kill both himself and the mother of his child…I think the boomer’s kid is an interesting sub-plot in itself.
Will Baltar flip over to the cylon side? Ron Moore says he wants to keep close the original series….The cylon kid thing is a figment of his imagination. There is no actual kid. He’s seeing places he’s been to before.
Roslin could die. There was no Roslin in the original series. Unless they find some herb on Kobol that will miraculously stop her cancer’s progression.
There hasn’t been any “agro ships” mentioned so far. I wonder if they’ll convert Cloud 9 and others into ones? There’s 50.000 mouths to feed.
If Kobol’s a trap, how long will they be there? There’s going to have to be a massive search party on Kobol at first to colonize but a contingency to keep the fleet resupplied.
They’ve managed the ability to “cloak” the raptor from cylon ships. Can Gaeta and the gang (admit it..Gaeta is the brain. Baltar’s a fluke) cloak Kobol and/or the fleet?
They need materials. Is there a construction ship to keep the fleets infrastructure up and running?
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