His Divine Shadow (cont)
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I am profoundly baffled by this thread.
First thing’s first: Why was it closed then restarted? [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/eek.gif[/img] Was there some sort of computer error that prevented more posts being added? [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/confused.gif[/img]
Another serious problem: Like the last 5 posts were about Prince. Y’know there’s a reason why I called the original thread “His Divine Shadow.” [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img] It was started because there were 3 different threads discussing His Shadow among other things, and I wanted to unify it all (plus I kept forgetting which posts were under which thread). Now, If you want to talk about Prince, start a “Prince” thread, this is about the Insect in black. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/cool.gif[/img]
Finally: I figured the humanity thing would go over your heads.
May His merciful Shadow fall upon you. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
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Lee P. Sherman, code name DalekTek790
Whovian, Froudian, Lexxian, etc.
quote:
Originally posted by DalekTek790:
[b].First thing’s first: Why was it closed then restarted? [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/eek.gif[/img] Was there some sort of computer error that prevented more posts being added? [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/confused.gif[/img]
[i]i lose continuity on these events too, must be because i have the attention span of a gnat…anyway, dalek tek, sadgeezer has asked us to limit threads to forty posts or so because going from page to page of a thread can be unwieldy both for people and the server[/i]
Another serious problem: Like the last 5 posts were about Prince. Y’know there’s a reason why I called the original thread “His Divine Shadow.” [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img] It was started because there were 3 different threads discussing His Shadow among other things, and I wanted to unify it all (plus I kept forgetting which posts were under which thread). Now, If you want to talk about Prince, start a “Prince” thread, this is about the Insect in black. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/cool.gif[/img]
[i] point taken, the threads are basically conversations that often go in directions having nothing to do with the original post, but unfortunately this is not in real time so we have to make do with many limitations, including lack of facial expression and tone of voice to soften comments such as…[/i]
Finally: I figured the humanity thing would go over your heads.
[i]why do you try to make people feel less intelligent than you, is it some sort of insecurity or are you making a joke?[/i]
May His merciful Shadow fall upon you. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
[i]and you too [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img], and may you live in interesting times![/i]
[/b]
here we left off:
WIP: Logged
Aleck
Committed SadGeezer
Posts: 151
Registered: Dec 2000
posted May 04, 2001 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by Reveal7:Aleck I sincerely apologize for not spelling Aleck correctly.
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Oh, hey, no problem. I’ve been called worse than “Alex.” Common mistake.
quote:
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Perhaps it’s more like fantasy, comedy, science fiction.
——————————————————————————–That’s *precisely* what it is, actually. A nice combo of all three. Not that the genres of fantasy, comedy *or* science fiction can’t deal in matters theological (C.S Lewis’ Narnia chronicles, Dogma, or The Divine Invasion by Philip K. Dick for example). Just that LEXX, I feel, shouldn’t be viewed in that same category of allegory or metaphor.
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It also seems that we are in agreement that this is just a friendly discussion.
——————————————————————————–Agreed.
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So, on that note, if you would just answer one little, nagging question that I have, purely for curiosity sake; Who do you think hired Prince?
——————————————————————————–I’m using the terms “job” and “hired” loosely, to suit the comparison between Prince and the early biblical concept of Satan. I don’t see Prince as actually having filled out an application for the job, or having been chosen by someone else to perform it. There’s been no implication that there is a figure in LEXX to equal JHVH, and you’d think that they’d run into him somewhere on Water (being omnipresent and all). I still think that Fire works best when you take into view the notion that Fire is an authoritarian bureaucracy (with Prince being the CEO), and that Water is an anti-authoritarian realm, with no one really in charge. Prince, rather than being assigned to a job, is a figure that serves a function. He exists because a need for him exists.
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I hope you know that I very much enjoy reading your posts, as well as DalekTek790’s and everyone elses.
——————————————————————————–Oh, now, there’s no need to go buttering me up. Ditto here.
–Aleck
IP: Logged
trillian
Committed SadGeezer
Posts: 115
Registered: Jan 2001
posted May 04, 2001 07:10 PM
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Concerning Prince. Here’s a thought. What if Prince is just the first evil person EVER to have died. He’s died the most, so he is the most “powerful.” The sheer repetition of repeated lives and the time is what made him powerful. He seems to be the only one who is aware of the passage of any time, what the souls experience in their limbo, maybe the idea of balance came from his own philosophy. Perhaps Water could have survived without Fire. But then that raises the question of where would the souls go to get punished. Would they just float around in limbo forever? thoughts anyone?——————
“…we will be restoring normality just as soon as we are sure what normal is anyway.”IP: Logged
FX
Moderator
Posts: 456
Registered: Dec 2000
posted May 06, 2001 03:07 AM
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Originally posted by trillian:
Concerning Prince. Here’s a thought. What if Prince is just the first evil person EVER to have died. He’s died the most, so he is the most “powerful.”
interesting idea, different from the karmic wheel of people going through this over and over ’til they get it right or being born over and over because there is a mission to perform…i like it. But then that raises the question of where would the souls go to get punished. Would they just float around in limbo forever? thoughts anyone?
i guess i kind of thought of both fire and water as limbo/purgatory…it’s not as if either were very…definitive…but i guess having to peddle until you tire out and get guillotined could qualify for a rather unglamorous hell…
dalek tek, your point about ba’al and beelzebub and prince are good but remember the problem with translations and interpretations over the two thousand years or so that these texts have been floating around, that’s what makes it hard to be absolutely sure about religion/mysticism in general, you never know how much has been garbled by each “historian” along the way, and how much of the actual original oral tradition was lost or changed…anyway, there were a lot of really good points made by both of you…aleck, now i know where my eliphas levi horned god hanging got to (i seem to have lost it several moves back!)at least it is safe on your wall,but keep the godzilla droppings off of it will you
[This message has been edited by BlackCloud (edited May 07, 2001).]
quote:
Originally posted by DalekTek790:
[b]Finally: I figured the humanity thing would go over your heads.[/b]
That’s it.
I’m getting sick and tired of this, DT790. If you want to insult people, then you’re going to have to deal with being insulted right back.
I am getting increasingly fed up with your self-righteous and arrogant behavior. You continually insist to anyone that will listen that you are on both a moral and intellectual high road. That you are not only smarter, but more moral than everyone else that happens to post here. Your condescending attitude is grating on my nerves severely. Tell me, in this Puritan philosophy that you have been known to espouse, is there any mention of HUMILITY? Or is being full of oneself finally being openly acknowledged as the primary tenet of that belief?
Not that I expect you to address this, since any time that anyone makes any kind of response to your posts, and make counterpoints that call for a response on your end, you either duck out of the conversation altogether, or whine about how nobody agrees with you, and you don’t understand why.I may have overstepped the bounds of decorum on this forum with this post, and if so, I apologize to the hosts. I am, however, offended by this creature’s remarks and attitude, and I am not one to turn the other cheek when one is slapped.
–Aleck
Like I said, this is supposed to be a dialektek, not an argument.
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Lee P. Sherman, code name DalekTek790
Whovian, Froudian, Lexxian, etc.
quote:
Originally posted by DalekTek790:
[b]Like I said, this is supposed to be a dialektek, not an argument.[/b]
It is not a discussion when all you do is restate your same, tired points over and over. All you’ve done to show off your “superior intellect” is repeatedly state that HDS shows humanity. When someone counters that with a valid point, you do not address said point, you merely restate your previous point, or claim intellectual superiority. That is not discussion or dialectic (and no matter how “clever” you may think it is to misspell a word to include your own alias in it, it is *never* as clever as you think it is…you’re stroking your ego in public again, and if you keep it up, people will start to stare).
A discussion or dialectic does not follow this formula: (1) You state a point. (2) A counterpoint is stated. (3) As a rebuttal, you say that you’re smarter than everyone else. A dialectic is the presenting of a thesis and an antithesis, which, after discussion and reasoning, combine to form a synthesis. If you are not willing to participate in a dialectic, then using the term is meaningless, as you will never allow your thesis to waver and allow synthesis to take place. It is not a dialectic when all you are concerned about is showing off how intelligent you believe that you are.
You want to engage in a dialectic? Then participate. Don’t state a point and then whine about how nobody agrees with you, or adopt a snotty and condescending attitude about how much smarter you think you are than anyone else.–Aleck
Doh! The original “His Divine Shadow” thread got locked up before I could post. Here are my comments. The Divine Order and HS make a great comparision to 1984-type society (Big Brother is certainly watching everyone here!), the Heretics make a good comparision to the Brotherhood. HDS also makes a good comparision to Nietzsche’s philosophy of the Overman, a society “built upon willing mediocrity, with an apex of ego, selfishness supremely blessed” (pardon the imperfect quote!), which fits perfectly with HDS, and ties in with the cycle of time idea (with Nietzsche’s eternal recurrence idea). I also compared this to religion (apologies to anyone I offend). The scene where HDS discusses the validity of the prophecy is perfect for this. Christianity goes on the notion that time goes in a straight line, whereas (Hindu?) believes time goes in a circle. Now, compare HDS to god. To those of the DO, he is seen as all-powerful, as is with the deities of someone’s religion. The part “I am not aware of any such divine teaching.” “So you do not believe it is possible?” “No Divine Shadow.” is a good comparision to some people of various religions who believe that what they have been taught is the right way. Not to mention it appears most of DO society appears to be brainwashed and conditioned only to serve HDS, which happens elsewhere (brainwashing people for a cause) in other books and real life (Big Brother, Brave New World, parents who force a religion upon their children). After seeing SadGeezer’s response to the scene of where HDS has the major shoot the general and then herself, while they both say “I worship His Shadow” of being revolting, I couldn’t agree more. The sad fact is, such does occur in real life. Religious fanatics are a good example. These comments are based upon my own observations and although I am an atheist my comments upon comparing HDS to a religious aspect was not meant as an attack upon other’s religion.
FX, Aleck, I thank you for fielding Dalek’s question as to the closing of the thread. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]I’m sure you both handled it a lot better than I would have on that day (it was not a mellow day for me.
Anyway, Dalek, only an insecure mind has to brag of its superiority or a very young one; and we already know you’re very young. So, stop constantly reminding us of that fact and play nicely with everyone else or no extra pudding for you at snack time.
“Finally: I figured the humanity thing would go over your heads?” Read my lips, Dalek: you are not the Ubermensch, Dude. But, if you go crazy, we will still call you Superman. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Just have fun and chill trying to figure out how to conquer the world or board, in this case. I think most people will figure this thread is about HDS and not Prince, just by the title, what with it being “His Divine Shadow” and all.
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There is no character, howsoever good and fine, but it can be destroyed by ridicule, howsoever poor and witless. Observe the ass, for instance: his character is about perfect, he is the choicest spirit among all the humbler animals, yet see what ridicule has brought him to. Instead of feeling
complimented when we are called an ass, we are left in doubt. (Twain)Aleck-“Dialektik” is a word the Greek philosophers used to describe scholarly discussion. It’s a pun. The Latinized alternate spelling is “dialectic” (it’s sort of like disk/disc, mollusk/mollusc, and ikon/icon).
I don’t generally respond to your personal attacks because I consider this a dialektik and thus the [b]person[/b] is irrelevant, it’s the [b]idea[/b] that needs to be addressed. My method is to point out the logical flaws in the argument of someone who counters me and to add new facts and observations to strengthen my case. I never restate a point unless it is evident that people skipped over or forgot my original posting of it. To make my standing perfectly clear:
[b]Contention 1:[/b] His Divine Shadow is the greatest villain to appear in the [i]Lexx[/i] movies and television series.
-Subpoint A: He is very powerful and organized.
-Subpoint B: He considers his actions to be just.
-Subpoint C: He exists as a “catalyst,” magnifying and accelerating humanity’s self-destructive tendancies.
-Subpoint D: It is easy to sympathize with him on certain levels.
-Subpoint E: He has many human attributes.
[b]Contention 2:[/b] His Divine Shadow is still alive.
-Subpoint A: His essence still exists somewhere in the Dark Zone.
-Subpoint B: There will be another Insect War.
-Subpoint C: The Prophecy has yet to be fulfilled in its entirety.
[b]Contention 3:[/b] His Divine Shadow is an allegory for terrestrial religious leadership.
-Subpoint A: He works by exploiting human ignorance.
-Subpoint B: He established a dogma that was destructive to the humans within and without the Divine Order.
-Subpoint C: He persuades his followers to destroy those who resist his teachings.In Lincoln-Douglas-style debate a contention is a statement of belief that characterizes an individual speaker. A contention is by definition something objective and open for debate (opinions or theories that cannot be confirmed or denied).
Templar-Thanks for agreeing with me. At least someone here has some insight. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
BlackCloud-I never brag. The final point of my first post on this (continued) thread is there because a number of people clearly didn’t comprehend what I was talking about. I am a very modest person.
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Lee P. Sherman, code name DalekTek790
Whovian, Froudian, Lexxian, etc.[This message has been edited by DalekTek790 (edited May 10, 2001).]
feh!!!
quote:
Originally posted by DalekTek790:
[b]Aleck-“Dialektik” is a word the Greek philosophers used to describe scholarly discussion. The Latinized alternate spelling is “dialectic” (it’s sort of like disk/disc, mollusk/mollusc, and ikon/icon).
[/b]
…And you spelled it Dialektek, which is just *awfully* close to your own alias. Coincidence? I don’t think so.
quote:
[b]To make my standing perfectly clear:
Contention 1: His Divine Shadow is the greatest villain to appear in the [i]Lexx[/i] movies and television series.[/b]
This is, of course, not a statement of fact. This is a subjective opinion that one can either agree or disagree with. And while everyone has an opinion, one can argue whether this opinion is well- or ill-informed. A countering of your argument follows.
quote[quote][b]-Subpoint A: He is very powerful and organized.[/quote][/b]
This point is backed up by explicit evidence in the films and Season 2.
quote[quote][b]-Subpoint B: He considers his actions to be just.[/b][/quote]
This is not supported by evidence. At no time does HDS state that he is serving justice, nor does anyone make this implication. Being that this subpoint completely lacks evidence, it can be stricken.
quote[quote][b]-Subpoint C: He exists as a “catalyst,” magnifying and accelerating humanity’s self-destructive tendancies.[/b][/quote]
While this is true in and of itself, it can also be said about Prince. Therefore it does not support the contention explicitly as the contention itself implies that this quality is exclusive to HDS. As it does not support the contention, it can be stricken as well.
quote[quote][b]-Subpoint D: It is easy to sympathize with him on certain levels.[/b][/quote]
This is completely subjective and can be said to apply only to yourself. To argue your opinion, you cannot rely on another opinion as support. As this is not evidence that can be used to support the previous contention, this subpoint can be stricken as well.
quote[quote][b]-Subpoint E: He has many human attributes.[/b][/quote]
This, too, is entirely subjective and can only be seen as your opinion. However, as HDS is an anthropomorphized insect, I’ll let it go. In anthropomorphizing HDS to make the character able to be related to by the audience (and, in the fictional structure, so that he could be passed as “human” by others), I will say that he does evidence *some* human characteristics. However, the character of Prince does as well, and shows at least as many human characteristics as HDS. As this subpoint is not exclusive to the character of HDS, it does not explicity support the contention. As only one of your subpoints actually and explicitly supports your contention (and it could be argued that it doesn’t really even do that, as being powerful and organized does not necessarily make one a great villain), your contention (opinion) lacks any real validity (is ill-informed).
Seeing as how Contention 2 is based entirely on conjecture and opinion and is not supported by any evidence whatsoever, I will not address it on a point-by-point basis. Also, as Contention 3 is one that I have no arguments with, either with the contention as a whole or with the supporting subpoints, I will not address it either.
quote[quote][b]Templar-Thanks for agreeing with me. At least someone here has some insight. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img][/b][/quote]
Of course, the only person that DT790 has claimed to have any insight besides himself is one that agrees with him, albeit on a point that would not face much argument in the LEXX fan community. This is not meant as a slam against you, Templar, rather against the fact that the only opinion or viewpoint that DT790 respects is one that mirrors his own.
quote[quote][b]BlackCloud-I never brag. The final point of my first post on this (continued) thread is there because a number of people clearly didn’t comprehend what I was talking about. I am a very modest person.[/b][/quote]
Actually, what you said was “I figured the humanity thing would go over your heads.” This implies a presupposition of superiority, not an observation of the posts that followed yours. And your contention of modesty is countered, again, by the evidence. You have spoken of your “wisdom,” imply that no one has the mental faculty to comprehend your posts, take a haughty, superior and self-righteous attitude when it comes to morality, and only recognize the intelligence of those that agree with you. This does not spell out modesty, sir. This signifies arrogance.
–Aleck
[This message has been edited by Aleck (edited May 10, 2001).]
Mr. Potato Head says:
It takes but one fallen pebble to change the destiny of a mountain.
Once again, Aleck, thank you for taking Dalek to task; so busy trying to prove his “humility” and mastery at the same time that he isn’t even aware he’s trotting on everyone’s heads and toes to do so.
Dalek, if you need to [b]tell[/b] people you’re modest, nine times out of ten, you’re not. Stick with trying to prove HDS’ humanity, that’ll be easier. I still think he’s just a bug and not a very nice one at that, trapped inside a human husk, who showed absolutely none of the niceties of humanity, especially modesty. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] And, to quote FX, subtext 3, counterpoint Q, subpoint R, at the Intersection of Main and Barrington, “Feh!” [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]
MPH, very Zen, dude, very zen. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
My intention has never been to conflict with anyone, just to decode what Paul Donovan, Lex Gigeroff and Jeffrey Hirschfield meant in the Divine Shadow episodes. When the thread started I was getting compliments, now everybody’s attacking me for no reason. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/confused.gif[/img]
I don’t mean to say that His Divine Shadow is [i]literally[/i] human, I know he’s an Insect. What I’m saying is that he has human-[i]like[/i] characteristics, and I can see where he’s coming from. He’s like Londo Mollari: some of his actions were evil but he was well-meaning. Or Darth Vader: though influenced by darkness there was always good in him.
F.X. will have to explain to me what “Feh!” means. I don’t speak…whatever the hell she is. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
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Lee P. Sherman, code name DalekTek790
Whovian, Froudian, Lexxian, etc.
quote:
Originally posted by DalekTek790:
[b]My intention has never been to conflict with anyone, just to decode what Paul Donovan, Lex Gigeroff and Jeffrey Hirschfield meant in the Divine Shadow episodes. When the thread started I was getting compliments, now everybody’s attacking me for no reason. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/confused.gif[/img][/b]
It is your inability to understand the reasons why you are being “attacked” that lead to the constant frustration you see following your posts. You are not being attacked for your views on HDS. Some people are *disagreeing* with you, which you have always (at least as long as I’ve been posting here) taken as an “attack.” I guess because your modest nature prohibits you from recognizing the fact that others may disagree with you on some level. What others are emotionally reacting to with your posts is your complete and total lack of understanding that you are behaving like an arrogant schmuck. You insult people, their intelligences, their morality, and expect them to just sit back and accept it because you believe yourself to be better than they are. You rail about the offensiveness of some of LEXX’s episodes, yet refuse to see the offensiveness of your own words. It’s frustrating, and some people will point that out in order to cause the scales to fall from your eyes. Unfortunately, your nice wall-of-ego prevents any criticisms to have any constructive effect, and they are just dismissed rather than paid any attention.
quote[quote][b]I don’t mean to say that His Divine Shadow is [i]literally[/i] human, I know he’s an Insect. What I’m saying is that he has human-[i]like[/i] characteristics, and I can see where he’s coming from. He’s like Londo Mollari: some of his actions were evil but he was well-meaning. Or Darth Vader: though influenced by darkness there was always good in him.[/b][/quote]
Again, there is NO evidence to support your view. You can have an unbased belief and an ill-informed opinion all you want, but none of the points you have made to back up your belief that HDS is a sympathetic, human-like character have substance. They won’t stand on their own two legs. Unless, that is, you have some rare, never-before-broadcast footage of HDS saying that he’s acting in the interest of justice, that he’s just “doing what’s right,” or rescuing puppies from being drowned. HDS is a completely inhuman evil, expressed through an anthropomorphized character. If you want to go around believing that he’s actually got some good lurking in there somewhere, then fine. Just don’t ask that others accept it as a well-thought-out idea, because it ain’t.
quote:
[b]F.X. will have to explain to me what “Feh!” means. I don’t speak…whatever the hell she is. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
[/b]
Again with the insults (de-fused a bit with a smiley face). You’re a real stand-up guy, DT790. By the way, “Feh!” is a sound of dismissal and frustration, nonverbal, but expressed in the written word thusly. Listen closely, and you can hear it expressed collectively after many of your posts go through.
–Aleck
[This message has been edited by Aleck (edited May 11, 2001).]
Mr. Potato Head says:
Pigeons without wings don’t fly, no matter how high you toss them.
Wow! Great discussion guys! Very entertaining….I don’t think HDS will ever come back I mean his existence ceased over 4,000 years ago!
Quote:
Mr. Potato Head says:
Pigeons without wings don’t fly, no matter how high you toss them.Has this got anything to do with Lexx?
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“My world is unaffected, there is an exit here. I say it is and it’s true. There is a dream inside a dream, I’m wide awake the more I sleep. You’ll understand when I’m dead. I went to God just to see and I was looking at me. Saw Heaven and Hell were lies, when I’m God every one dies…”F.X. will have to explain to me what “Feh!” means. I don’t speak…whatever the hell she is. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
[/B][/QUOTE]
“whatever the hell she is”…charming, dalek tek, truly charming…okay, feh is yiddish, a dialect,germanic in origin, written with hebrew characters, spoken primarily by eastern jews especially in the ukraine, or by anyone who has lived in new york for longer than two weeks…wonderful thing about big cities, dt, it opens your mind to all sorts of cultures and ideas you obviously have not been exposed to, and are obviously the poorer for…no , i am not jewish, but i am one of the triumvirate targeted by the KKK, ie jews, catholics, and blacks…now next time you don’t know something, either ask nicely or look it up because i am sick and tired of your attempts to disguise your ignorance with arrogance and all round nastiness…have a nice day [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by FX (edited May 18, 2001).]
quote:
Originally posted by FX:
[b]”whatever the hell she is”…charming, dalek tek, truly charming…okay, feh is yiddish, a dialect,germanic in origin, written with hebrew characters, spoken primarily by eastern jews especially in the ukraine, or by anyone who has lived in new york for longer than two weeks…wonderful thing about big cities, dt, it opens your mind to all sorts of cultures and ideas you obviously have not been exposed to, and are obviously the poorer for…no , i am not jewish, but i am one of the triumvirate targeted by the KKK, ie jews, catholics, and blacks…now next time you don’t know something, either ask nicely or look it up because i am sick and tired of your attempts to disguise your ignorance with arrogance and all round nastiness…have a nice day [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]
[/b]
Are you familiar with the term “run-on sentance?” [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
I’m not ignorant, arrogant, or nasty. You just have no sense of humor. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]
And just because Aleck is being a jerk doesn’t mean you have to join in. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img]
——————
Lee P. Sherman, code name DalekTek790
Whovian, Froudian, Lexxian, etc.Here’s a quote for ya, MPH:
“Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts, absolutely.” Make sense on this Lexx forum or make for another forum. Please make Lexx/dialogue on this Lexx forum or make for another forum. I’m sure there’s a Confucian forum just dying to get its hands on some of your stuff.Dalek, no one’s out for ya, chit. We’re just wondering how ya see HDS as so warm and fuzzy. Lando repented his ambition and came back to the light, so did Darth Vader. HDS only repented having been so blind and went straight for the big kill. He had no moments of levity, mirth, self-doubt as to whether his course of actions were right or wrong, or any of the other things that would indicate a human spirit still resided in that form; unless you count acting pridefully and stupidly by not heeding the divine predecessors. Therefore, no it is NOT easy for any (read my lips) [b]normal[/b] human beings to sympathize with HDS. It is an INSECT. Maybe if you’re the Orkin man, you might be able to dredge up some feelings, I dunno. Most humans are just glad to see him die. I do agree with you, he is the most powerful villain but human sympathy will never fly since the only humane attributes he has is a [i]body[/i]. He may as well be inside a water buffalo for all the humanity he possesses. Actually, water buffalos are more humane (my apologies to water buffalos the world over [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img])
FX! Chub Rach mum is! Have mercy on the poor soul! He’s obviously not from NY or Joiysey. Actually, I speak Yiddish as well as I speak Greek (mainly the swear words [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]) I got that from my brother, he speaks anything (the rat *censored* [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img]). However, she’s right, Dalek, asking politely is nice. I already knew what “Feh” meant because FX and I are pretty much from the same area. (YoYoYo! We homies! Know w’I’msayin’? Word. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img] Now, I’d like to give a little shout out to m’ boys in the Dark-Z,YO! Let’s give it up for m’ man Stan, Security Guard in Charge! and Kai, what? Dead but livin’ Large!
Give it up for Xev Cluster Luster Lady! ‘Kai really really turn her out! Oocchie Brunnen-G, Baby!’ 790! What? 790! What? 790! What? 790! ‘Cuz without your bod’ that’s as lo’ as you’ll go! Yo! All m’ homies on the Lexx! Kickin’ it wit Lexx in the Dark-Z.)
Did I digress? [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Oh, yeh, HDS, ain’t vaguely sympathetic but he is the biggest, baddest, meanie that ever crawled down the pike. (I’ve had way too much caffeine today)
——————
There is no character, howsoever good and fine, but it can be destroyed by ridicule, howsoever poor and witless. Observe the ass, for instance: his character is about perfect, he is the choicest spirit among all the humbler animals, yet see what ridicule has brought him to. Instead of feeling
complimented when we are called an ass, we are left in doubt. (Twain)[This message has been edited by BlackCloud (edited May 19, 2001).]
quote:
Originally posted by DalekTek790:
[b]
Are you familiar with the term “run-on sentance?” [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]I’m not ignorant, arrogant, or nasty. You just have no sense of humor. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]
And just because Aleck is being a jerk doesn’t mean you have to join in. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img]
[/b]
Then, again, after reading [b]your[/b] response, maybe [i]you[/i] should try and sei a mensch! Huh? Yeh, More Yiddish, for stop being such a jerk. Okay? This ends here because I no longer see any discussion of HDS going on, just character assassinations. Nobody here knows anyone else so give it a rest and concentrate on what we do have in common…Lexx. I wouldn’t know one of you if I tripped over you tomorrow. So, why is everyone gettin’ so bleedin’ tripped out? Can we just put our baitsim back in our respective trousers and get back to our conversation? Jeez, argue your brains out about HDS or anything else but it’s not necessary to level personal attacks. So, a sof, end it! Please. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] (Next, I time I go all Teddy Roosevelt up in here, Copy?) [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/cool.gif[/img]
——————
There is no character, howsoever good and fine, but it can be destroyed by ridicule, howsoever poor and witless. Observe the ass, for instance: his character is about perfect, he is the choicest spirit among all the humbler animals, yet see what ridicule has brought him to. Instead of feeling
complimented when we are called an ass, we are left in doubt. (Twain)Whenever I try to get the conversation back to [i]Lexx[/i] I just get more personal attacks.
——————
Lee P. Sherman, code name DalekTek790
Whovian, Froudian, Lexxian, etc.
quote:
Originally posted by DalekTek790:
[b]Whenever I try to get the conversation back to [i]Lexx[/i] I just get more personal attacks.[/b]
No, when you resort to personal attacks and insult, you receive it in return.
And if being a jerk means countering your arguments (the counters of which you are either unable or unwilling to rebut) and proving them invalid, then consider me guilty as charged.
–Aleck
See, this is why I stopped teaching because euthanasia was strictly discouraged as a means of reinforcing good behavior. Now did either of those replies really have [b]anything[/b] to do with Lexx or HDS? No. If this forum had a cloak room you’d both be locked in it; sadly, however, only one of you would emerge and I’d have to explain the gory details to the other’s parents. Now, please go to neutral corners and try to stay out of each other’s hair! This kind of thing never produces winners; that’s already been proven on the other boards. Why keep repeating a losing formula? Of course, my name is Cassandra so don’t listen to me; just roll that horse right on in boys. (Right, great! Hanhepi waste! And, Have a Great Weekend, if you don’t verbally kill yourselves [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img])
[This message has been edited by BlackCloud (edited May 19, 2001).]
quote:
Originally posted by BlackCloud:
[b] See, this is why I stopped teaching because euthanasia was strictly discouraged as a means of reinforcing good behavior. [This message has been edited by BlackCloud (edited May 19, 2001).][/b]
I apologize for continuing after you’d asked for us to cut it out. I posted before reading your follow-up, and was fairly smashed, it being a late Friday night. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
DT790, I call a truce. I will stop making what you are interpreting as “personal attacks” (note: this does not include countering any arguments you make in the realm of debate; disagreements do not equal personal attacks) if you will watch your virtual mouth and stop insulting people (this includes implying that you are better than others here, either morally, intellectually, or in any other way). Play nice, and I shall as well.
–Aleck
[This message has been edited by Aleck (edited May 19, 2001).]
quote:
Originally posted by Aleck:
[b]
DT790, I call a truce. I will stop making what you are interpreting as “personal attacks” (note: this does not include countering any arguments you make in the realm of debate; disagreements do not equal personal attacks) if you will watch your virtual mouth and stop insulting people (this includes implying that you are better than others here, either morally, intellectually, or in any other way). Play nice, and I shall as well.
[/b]
Last night I posted a message saying essentially the same thing, but it didn’t register or something ’cause it’s not here today.
——————
Lee P. Sherman, code name DalekTek790
Whovian, Froudian, Lexxian, etc.
quote:
Originally posted by DalekTek790:
[b]
Last night I posted a message saying essentially the same thing, but it didn’t register or something ’cause it’s not here today.[/b]
I was forced to register…the dove quote wasn’t mine, an imposter! BAH!
The messege I posted informing everyone that I registered has disappeared. It seems to be some sort of sadboard problem.
[img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/cool.gif[/img]
[b]HE’S BACK![/b]
[img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/cool.gif[/img]
[b]Divine Shadow Update:[/b]
After much waiting, saw the inevitable return of [i]Lexx[/i]’s greatest villain in the episode [i]Texx Lexx[/i]. His Shadow’s contemporary incarnation is that of a Stephen Hawking wannabe somewhat resembling the Wozard. He is the leader of a group of amateur scientists in Texas who have been investigating aerial phenomena trying to establish contact with spacefaring extraterrestrial biological entities. The United States Government is funding research into physics that will finally uncover the nature of dark particle, but as a side effect will collapse the Earth into a black hole. Since the Shadow Society is unable to prevent the fatal experiment, they plan to escape from the planet via alien spacecraft. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms under the orders of Prince is trying to prevent this and eliminate the Society.
The Shadow Society’s inquiry into Earth’s past has discovered a recurrence of the Seal of the Divine Order. This symbol also appears on the hull of modern unidentified flying objects. It is often associated with death, and sometimes seen in conjunction with a black figure resembling His Divine Shadow.
Earth is in the darkest part of the Dark Zone. It is where all of humanity originated over 12,000 years before the destruction of the Divine Order. It is unclear where Twenty First Century Earth fits into [i]Lexx[/i] history. It may be before the Insect Wars. However, it occurred to me that they said “Insect [b]Wars[/b],” as in more than one. There could’ve been a space of centuries between the first Insect War and the final War that wiped out the civilization. The Great Insect War clearly took place after mankind had conquered space, like between 2100 and 2400 A.D. But the first War may be just beginning in the 2000s where our [i]Lexx[/i] people are, or had already been going on for centuries without affecting humanity.
I am uncertain whether the Divine Shadow essence acting upon Earth is native to that time, or was brought from the future, having been dormant in the Lexx since the collapse of the Light Zone. This, perhaps has something to do with the “cycles of time.” It has been active for at least 4,000 years, and the human scientist seems unaware of his Divine Shadow status. What is on Earth is distinctly reminiscent of the Divine Order, not just the Insect civilization, although I always thought that never came along until after the Great Insect War. These events’ place in the established [i]Lexx[/i] universe has yet to be revealed.
May His merciful Shadow fall upon you.
——————
Lee P. Sherman, code name DalekTek790
Whovian, Froudian, Lexxian, etc.[This message has been edited by DalekTek790 (edited July 23, 2001).]
Your post, DT, has little to no basis in the text as we know it. It is mere speculation, so your posts claiming that “he’s back” are just as iffy as those that claimed that the next season of LEXX would take place in a Roddenberry-esque utopian future world. HDS isn’t back yet. May not be back.
–Aleck
Caution possible minor spoiler.
Dalek there have been rumors that in episode 6 or whichever one is named Vlad there will be a vampire-like (undead a la kai)former Divine assasin there. the last picture was from the carpathian mountain which is transylvania. although i personally hope for a HDS rebirth i doubt it at this point although his essence could still be hidden somewhere in the Lexx or on one of its crew members. the only one i can think of is 790 as he has a human brain and has gotten progressively meaner. however that is speculation and there has been no hint at a HDS rebirth anytime soon.
Most of the post is a compilation of major data points revealed in the episode [i]Texx Lexx[/i]. The rest is clearly labelled as speculation and theory, [b]none of which can be confirmed or refuted at this point in the series[/b].
It’s quite unreasonable to prohibit any form of speculation/theory, from the SadBoard. For starters, you have no position of authority as far as I’m aware. Plenty of other board users (Slopmaster, BlackCloud, etc.) have theories about what has happened or will happen next, yet you don’t stomp on [b]their[/b] ideas.
It is clear you are just singling me out because you want to start an argument with the only other board member you consider to be on your intellectual level.
Now, I would like to hear [b]other[/b] people’s thoughts, opinions, and theories.
——————
Lee P. Sherman, code name DalekTek790
Whovian, Froudian, Lexxian, etc.Note: This post has been edited because it may have been interpreted as a flame, when it wasn’t intended as such.
quote:
Originally posted by DalekTek790:
[b]Most of the post is a compilation of major data points revealed in the episode [i]Texx Lexx[/i]. The rest is clearly labelled as speculation and theory, none of which can be confirmed or refuted at this point in the series.[/b]
DT, you did not label anything you posted as a theory or speculation. You were saying things as established LEXX history that have never been implied in the text. In other words, you are making assumptions that may or may not be proven right, but have nothing to base these assumptions on. Where is it stated in LEXX that humankind “conquered space” between 2100 and 2400? Where is it stated that all of humanity originated on Earth? Where are you getting your time line from? I’m not saying that you are either right or wrong, just that if you’re going to engage in speculation, at least base your speculation on the text at hand.
quote[quote][b]It’s quite unreasonable to prohibit any form of speculation/theory, from the SadBoard. For starters, you have no position of authority as far as I’m aware. Plenty of other board users (Slopmaster, BlackCloud, etc.) have theories about what has happened or will happen next, yet you don’t stomp on their ideas.[/b][/quote]
I haven’t jumped on other peoples’ theories because: (A)they posit them as theories instead of fact, and (B) their theories have at least some basis in the text. I’m not trying to say that there should be no speculation or theory, but this is a public board, and if your argument has no basis in the text, I have every right to comment on its lack of foundation. Again, I’m not saying that you are right or wrong, just that you need evidence to back up what you are saying, if you’re trying to express your belief about what’s going to happen, evidence that you have not presented.
quote[quote][b]It is clear you are just singling me out because you want to start an argument with the only other board member you consider to be on your intellectual level.[/b][/quote]
I find this statement to be offensive because it implies feelings about other board members that simply do not exist.
Again, DT, you are making baseless assumptions. You, in this statement, are implying that I think you are the only person on this board on my “intellectual level.” There is no truth to this assumption at all. I have complimented others on their posts, taken issue with other members’ positions, and engaged in discussions with other board members. You are hardly the only person I’ve engaged in a dialogue.–Aleck
[This message has been edited by Aleck (edited July 23, 2001).]
gaack. I thought there was a general rule against “flaming.”
quote:
Originally posted by aurora:
[b]gaack. I thought there was a general rule against “flaming.”[/b]
My apologies. My previous post was dashed off in the heat of the moment, and came across as more harsh than I intended. Sometimes, everything DT does just rubs me the wrong way. I edited my post to be less offensive and better express why I posted what I did.
–Aleck
quote:
Originally posted by Aleck:
[b] My apologies. My previous post was dashed off in the heat of the moment, and came across as more harsh than I intended. Sometimes, everything DT does just rubs me the wrong way. I edited my post to be less offensive and better express why I posted what I did.
–Aleck[/b]
Oh Aleck, I didn’t mean to chastise you! It’s none of my biz. Seems like Lexxians are a diverse group of intelligent and half-crazy people. Volatile at times?
——————
– Aurora
quote:
Originally posted by Stans#1Fan:
[b]Caution possible minor spoiler.The only one i can think of is 790 as he has a human brain and has gotten progressively meaner. however that is speculation and there has been no hint at a HDS rebirth anytime soon. [/b]
Very interesting theory, 790 containing a piece of the insect essence. Now thats pretty good but let me throw you another curve ball. What if 790’s little piece of brain tissue was to small so only a small piece of the esence could fit. So the insect divided its self up and placed its self in Stan, Xev, Kai, and maybe even in the Lexx its self. All their behaviors are more aggressive this season. True Xev did stop Stan from blowing up the planet but she wasn’t nearly as passionate about as with Fire and Water. I also don’t understand how Stan would be so willing to destroy an entire planet with more people on it than Water. He seems far more willing to kill than before. And Kai well he really has gotten more aggressive in this season. In the past he would probably just disarmed any threat but now he seems far more willing to kill any threat than before. Also the Lexx, I never heard him say he has urges to blow up planets. I think its possible that they are all His Divine Shadow.
-SM
Well, for my opinion and what it’s worth (don’t expect to be able to make a phone call), I thought we had Divine Order on the Horizon from episode one, when that whatever it was took off towards the Earth. But, after seeing the symbols throughout Earth’s history, I’m more convinced. Maybe I want to be convinced because there was just no meanie like the Divine Shadow meanie, whatever incarnation it took.
Aleck/Dalek, sheesh, still? Just ignore one another, if nothing else. This is gettin’ old.
[This message has been edited by BlackCloud (edited July 24, 2001).]
*whaX Slop in the head with an old shoe.
Enuff of that nonsense!! [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]
BlackCloud, not to rain on your parade for a change.. I was thinking the same thing about those things headed towards Earth.. fortunately or unfortunately there are little blue birds with loose beaks flying all over the place.. and in Texx Lexx, unless you only saw the first airing, those are cleary some kind of space carrots headed towards Earth. Now how carrots fit in I do not know.
Maybe I’m just pickin on the obvious here, but I really think that vampire is just a left over Divine Assasin that sparked the vampire legends. I really don’t think that he is or was HDS, but what do I know.
But this season seems to have more instore for us than any of us could have guessed. With the Xeption of Heaven and Hell.. this series continues to throw me unXpected curve balls.. and that’s the way I like it. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
Hey do I qualify as the most insane Lexx fan?
I am the theory man when it comes to Lexx. I can come up with any theory and make it stick. My theorys are plausible, belive or do not believe their is no unbelievable.-SM
There’s an important point to consider when discussing whether or not HDS will return: HDS, as an entity is gone. No more. Ceased to be. Sure, the insect essence that was passed from host to host survived *in part*, but not as a whole. Kai acknowledged this when he said that he only received HDS’ agenda. Therefore, only part of the insect essence that made up the identity known as His Divine Shadow was passed on into Kai. Kai transferred this into the insect offspring in “Mantrid,” which brought it out of its dormant state. Only part of the essence was then removed from the insect, because it remained living (and did not lapse back into dormancy). This part of the insect essence merged with Mantrid’s own essence and created, as Mantrid said of himself, “a new lifeform.” Mantrid never acknowledged himself as HDS, and he would have if he was in possession of the full insect essence (even in an unclean host, the recipient of the transferrence is cognizant of being HDS). Therefore, the being known as Mantrid was never HDS, nor was Kai, nor was the insect offspring. If anything survived, essence-wise, chances are it would be the blend of essences that made up the Mantrid/insect/machine hybrid.
This is not to say that there may not be conditions that would lead to the creation of a new insect leader, but it would be a *different* insect leader, not the same HDS that was present in the first season.–Aleck
I just realized something. Dr. von Schatten (I’ll call him that ’til I learn his real name!) showed Kai a picture from ca. 2000 B.C. Cimmeria. That means the Divine Shadow essence has been active for about 4,000 years.
Now, in [i]May[/i] 790 said that the Lexx had been drifting for 4,332 years. Now, suppose [i]Texx Lexx[/i] takes place in 2010, that would mean that (if this theory is correct) the Lexx came into the Dark Zone in the year 2323 B.C. That’s ca. 2000 B.C.! Now, suppose after the Light Zone collapsed the Insect essence that had been in the Mantrid dealiething escaped into the Dark Zone with the Lexx. It swam through space to the darkest part of the Dark Zone: Earth. That would make it possible for it to be in Cimmeria around 2000 B.C. Note that in the 11th book of the [i]Odyssey[/i] Homer refers to Cimmeria as “a place of darkness.”
On Earth the Insect essence started causing mass death and feeding off the life force given off by dying humans, getting stronger all the time. And it’s been doing this for 4,333 years!
I know this theory is a little “on the edge,” but it’s a possibility, and it could explain some of the Shadow Society’s historical data.
This ties into a radical theory I have about the interconnection of the two universes, but this post is long enough.
——————
“Exterminate!” -Dalek warrior, [i]The Daleks[/i]: Episode 4-[i]The Ambush[/i]
“Feel the power of the dark Crystal!” -skekTek the Scientist, [i]The Dark Crystal[/i]
“I will love you forever!” -drone #790, [i]Lexx 1.1: I Worship His Shadow[/i]
[This message has been edited by DalekTek790 (edited July 24, 2001).]
Well unlike my Kai soul time traveling theory or the Lexx crew essence one this theory is a bit more down to earth, so to speak. Ok the big question we have to ask is how could the Divine Order have a presence in the Dark Zone?
After establishing a strong foot hold in the light universe His Divine Shadow attempted to extend his reach into the Dark Zone. One the planets he attempted to take control over was our planet. Now he might have done this with clerics. Something like old Catholic missionaries only more tame. So he might have attempted to take over several planets in the DZ useing this method. But if this is true then how did HDS lose the location of the fractal core and why by time we saw “I Worship His Shadow” why did HDS only seem to control the light universe? I believe its possible something more powerfull forced him out as happens with old empires that over extend their reach. Or maybe there just wasn’t much to take over in the DZ and over time he just pulled out and consentrated on ruleing the Light Universe.
Well we can with a very safe assurance that HDS did visit earth at some point or at least sent some one here. I wonder if some more rements of the Divine Order might show up on earth and through out the DZ.
-SM
dalek you need to calm down man all i did was comment o nyour theory and you got al ldefensive on me and interprted it as attacking you. take it easy man. anyway the whoile 4000 years thing is what makes me think. that a long tiem and a PART of the essense could have survived and rebuilt itself over those years. the divine assasin would have been a target for the essense to take over as it knew it somehow or something. again this is idle speculation from a guy who thinks HDS kicked ass lol.
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