DS9 vs. B5?
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In regards to another post in this category calling DS9 a poor B5 rip off,I feel I must voice my opinion to contrary.I must also ask what your basing that on, if its the shows premise of a space station in the middle of no where then thats a lame excuse to base an argument on. The shows are very distinct from one another, with one being unequivicably great(DS9) while the other is moderate at best.Im not bad mouthing B5, even though it must seem like it, but in comparison DS9 was by far the superiour of the two. No show can be called original anymore, it can only go far before something is copied in premise or outright immitated. Im not entirey biased though, the whitestars rule and marcus is probably my choice for fave B5 character, but DS9 has to be the choice show, being a die hard trekkie cant help but thats my opinion.
i agree with your point about the two shows being distinct from one another. i too am a big Trek fan, being hooked by ST:TOS when i was about 6-7 years old. however, i’m probably going to seem a little disloyal to the cause of trekdom here, and say in a lot of respects, B5 kicked Trek’s bum. for instance, there isn’t the restraint of the Prime Directive. plus it paints, at least initially, a darker future for the human race. once we’re out there, i can’t see as many races being as friendly as in the trekverse, nor can i see us getting away with as much. in B5, there as many races waiting to kick our rears as there are ready to deal happily with us. it may seem the same with trek, but we always come up smelling of roses in the end. i dunno, maybe i’m becoming defeatist & gloomy in my old age…..
[img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] check this out if you want a good laugh.
[url=http://www.sadgeezer.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000067]http://www.sadgeezer.com/cgi-bin/ultimat ebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000067[/url]
click on the B5 versus DS9 link in that post. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
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Originally posted by snooklepie:
i agree with your point about the two shows being distinct from one another. i too am a big Trek fan, being hooked by ST:TOS when i was about 6-7 years old. however, i’m probably going to seem a little disloyal to the cause of trekdom here, and say in a lot of respects, B5 kicked Trek’s bum. for instance, there isn’t the restraint of the Prime Directive. plus it paints, at least initially, a darker future for the human race. once we’re out there, i can’t see as many races being as friendly as in the trekverse, nor can i see us getting away with as much. in B5, there as many races waiting to kick our rears as there are ready to deal happily with us. it may seem the same with trek, but we always come up smelling of roses in the end. i dunno, maybe i’m becoming defeatist & gloomy in my old age…..
I have to disagree with you on this, Star Trek has led the way for years because it is the utopia that many wish to aspire too.
If you look around, there are far more shows that take a negative and dark view of humanity’s future, a: because it’s easier to paint that picture, and b:for some reason many are drawn to it, possibly because we want to see mankind face real terror.
B5 is not unique in this respect, it’s very formulaic to represent humanity in this light.
Trek is actually quite bold in it’s attempt to paint a different future, it’s doing something that many just don’t have the guts to attempt, but this may be because Trek is already established.
I think this is why the Borg were notable adversaries to begin with, they really did for the first time pose a truly terryfying threat, something they (Berman & Co) have not been able to recreate since.
I agree Trek does need to be darker, it may be aimed at a audience between say 12 and say 30, but once in a while they should get a little risque in their approach and sod the kids and make a real nasty nemesis appear.
I still think that it’s likely Trek’s representation will be closer in the future, as the characters are loosely based around earth cultures and nations, I don’t beleive we will change that much in 300 years, and I feel that our inherent goodness will still prevail over the evil that some possess, and that’s what Trek is doing, painting a brighter future for us.
B5 may be well written and I would agree it does have a better standing in Sci-Fi than DS9, but it still has taken the easy route and it’s essence is not as daring as Star Trek.
SquishyI had been told that JMS pitched the B5 idea to Paramount but was turned down. Then shortly afterwards Paramount comes up with a new idea for a [i]Star Trek[/i] show called [i]Deep Space 9[/i].
I respectfully disagree. Being a trekker, I was sickened that they plagarized a good idea. It seems so crystal clear to me. Then the [i]Trek[/i] people had the gall to attempt an ongoing story arc just like [i]B5[/i] was doing. They even had a character named Leeta (Lyta), for crissakes!
quote:
Originally posted by Flamegrape:
I had been told that JMS pitched the B5 idea to Paramount but was turned down. Then shortly afterwards Paramount comes up with a new idea for a [i]Star Trek[/i] show called [i]Deep Space 9[/i].I respectfully disagree. Being a trekker, I was sickened that they plagarized a good idea. It seems so crystal clear to me. Then the [i]Trek[/i] people had the gall to attempt an ongoing story arc just like [i]B5[/i] was doing. They even had a character named Leeta (Lyta), for crissakes!
I will say this for the hundreth time. Yes there were similarities between DS9 and B5 but only in names. If you look at them side by side they are apples and oranges. DS9 was a much more solid universe with humaniods and others on their own. With the exception of the Q DS9’s universe didn’t have any real first ones that were a part of the over all story. B5 on the other hand was a much more magical universe. Also just because some of the characters had same names does not mean they were even close to being the same person. B5 was good but honestly DS9 remains my favorite, no matter what others say.
-SM
A book, I think it was “The Making of Deep Space Nine,” said that [i]Babylon 5[/i] was suspiciously similar to [i]Star Trek: Deep Space 9[/i], and that suspicion was compounded by the fact that J. Michael Straczynski was in contact with Paramount at the time [i]Deep Space Nine[/i] was in production, but no legal action has been taken.
I think there is little room to argue that [i]Deep Space Nine[/i] is not head and shoulders above [i]Babylon 5[/i] in general quality.
In one of the posts to my message someone mentioned that DS9 is considered a tarnish on the star trek reputation, I cant possibly see why. In B5 th show was always dark with far to much talking for my general liking, grnted its well written but even the special effects cant make up for all the dialogue. DS9 has both well written scripts and special effects that shame those of its counterpart and I know this will no doubt be an opinion i share with few, but Sisko has to be the best captain of the five trek incarnations, in all fairness to the other they have their merits but Sisko stands firmly in the top spot.
First of all, don’t get me wrong. I like [i]Trek[/i]. I watch the new episodes of [i]Enterprise[/i] because I’ve always thought that Scott Bakula was a great choice for the role of captain.
[i]B5[/i] had intense drama. [i]D9[/i] (and all the other [i]Trek[/i] shows for that matter) have been dry and wooden.
I always felt that [i]B5[/i] was more realistic in it’s portrayal of the future. [i]Trek[/i]’s vision of a utopian future devoid of starvation, poverty, and religeon is wonderful but it [b]just plain ain’t gonna happen![/b] Even when there is limitless resources and the nature of the universe is known, there will [b]still[/b] be fundamentalist religious nuts who want to tell you how to live your life! Sure, the Federation encounters other races with their kooky arcane religions. But what happend to all the muslims, buddhists, christians, jews, sihks, taoists, hindus, and shintoists? One thing for damned sure is that muslims, christians, and jews are not going to vanish in a few hundred years!
as much as we all hope that the future will be as portrayed by Trek, i simply cannot believe it will happen.
on a slightly different note, i must admit that i found the B5 pilot movie dull at first, and so when the show came on the tv i very nearly didn’t watch it. i am glad i did watch!
B5 came at a time when ST:TNG was winding down (i was a little disappointed with season 7), and when DS9 first appeared, it took a while to start working for me. i suppose B5 filled the excitment gap, and although i am a trek fan (ok, i’m not the mine of facts & info that alot of fans are-i’m usually too busy slobbering at the tv screen-“uuurrrrr…..trek…. [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] ” when it’s on!), i love B5. it may seem strange, but i almost feel a sense of guilt because of this.quote:
Originally posted by Flamegrape:
First of all, don’t get me wrong. I like [i]Trek[/i]. I watch the new episodes of [i]Enterprise[/i] because I’ve always thought that Scott Bakula was a great choice for the role of captain.[i]B5[/i] had intense drama. [i]D9[/i] (and all the other [i]Trek[/i] shows for that matter) have been dry and wooden.
I always felt that [i]B5[/i] was more realistic in it’s portrayal of the future. [i]Trek[/i]’s vision of a utopian future devoid of starvation, poverty, and religeon is wonderful but it [b]just plain ain’t gonna happen![/b] Even when there is limitless resources and the nature of the universe is known, there will [b]still[/b] be fundamentalist religious nuts who want to tell you how to live your life! Sure, the Federation encounters other races with their kooky arcane religions. But what happend to all the muslims, buddhists, christians, jews, sihks, taoists, hindus, and shintoists? One thing for damned sure is that muslims, christians, and jews are not going to vanish in a few hundred years!
I have no doubt that come the 23rd century mankind will not have eradicated wars or certain diseases, and also it’s doubtful that divisions between nationalities will go away in that time.
What I said before is that Star Trek offers an idealistic vision of our future which is fairly unique, most other shows including B5 portray a much bleaker future, and they do that because we all like to see humanity up against it.
Star Treks vision has one thing going for it…it’s science, in the last hundred years alone, Science and innovation have been groundbreaking, and science will ultimately give us cures to the most virilent of diseases and also technology that would be similar to what we thought was impossible i.e warp travel is now a distinct possibility.
With a large chunk of mankinds problems being eradicated, we all may acheive a better understanding of ourselves, and who’s to say that we will think of places like Iraq or other nutcase countries in the same way.
You cannot entirely rule out Trek’s vision, in the right circumstances it could happen, those of us who want that future will endeavour to make it happen.
On the flip side, humanity may never acheive it’s goals and we would see a future played out in the darker ideals shown by other Sci-fi programs, but if the world can avoid a major catastrophe such as a global nuclear war, then it just may be possible.
I have a lot of faith that humanity’s goodness outweighs it’s more evil tendencies and we will with the help of new innovations and revelations carry on to enrich our lives, whether it turns out to be anything like the utopia Star Trek perceives, remains to be seen, but that is going to an extreme and I agree is unlikely.
But I think that no oone would like to live in B5’s universe and would much prefer Star Trek’s.
The world won’t stay this way forever.
Squishy
Squishy
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