Harry Potters for nerds
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Harry Potter was written for the little one’s..JK Rowlings did intend for it to be read by pre-teens..that was her target audience and anything to get those kids reading is a positive..for an adult it’s to be taken in the context of entertainment….so don’t be to hard on the Harry Potter books..I’m sure if you stepped into a library you’ll find something more to your liking.. 🙂
I agree with you Dudelove, the whole thing is crap, ok it’s for kids and perhaps I can’t appreciate it at my age (32), but I watched it and cannot see any appeal to adults, plus I think it’s standing as a big movie is false, parents bringing their kids just makes it look like a huge blockbuster.
I’m just thankful films like Reloaded and LOTR are around to put it into perspective (and blow it out of the water).
Granted it’s a good thing for the kids because of reading, but the whole thing has been blown out of proportion, in the UK they were queing for hours to get hold of the new book…these people really need to get a life (say’s a sadgeezer!!!).
But all the fuss that is made about it is OTT and it does my head in!!!, that and David Beckham’s transfer.Squishy
Oooh, someone’s trying to hit a nerve =) Hmm is it for “nerds”? Naah, Sadgeezers? Yup! Think you hit the right place my friend. And while I looooove a good intelligent conversation like:
[quote=”Dudelove76″]I just think its sad, that adults acturally read that *&^%[/quote]
It’s okay to post constructive crititism etc… but keep the pedantic childish stuff to a minimum k? It’s just trolling and that’s not what these boards are about.
And btw I’d advise actually picking up a book and reading it before dogging it, it’s great stuff =) Just finished the new book, and if you think it’s just for children you havent read it or the previous book. Great stuff, can’t wait for more.
Most of us don’t read Harry Potter for a philosophical revelation either, or watch the Matrix for it. Thats the fine distinction between entertainment and reality. Pick up some Anselm if you want a revelation.
Most of us don’t read Harry Potter for a philosophical revelation either, or watch the Matrix for it. Thats the fine distinction between entertainment and reality. Pick up some Anselm if you want a revelation.
I haven’t been to this board for over 4 weeks now, because I’ve been over at the matrix boards discussing the philosophy of it, and believe me there are plenty of revelations to explore.
Squishy
I have read 3 of the Harry Potter books and there all rip off’s of Star Wars. And I’m not trolling!, stop whineing!!
I’ve read the first 4 Harry Potter books and I have to say I was extremely impressed. As often happens, children’s books can work on a number of levels, so there is something there for the adults as well as the children.
What impressed me most was the depth of the plots and the way Rowling could keep her audience trying to guess who the ‘bad guy’ was right up to the very end. I never managed to guess the correct ‘bad guy’, yet when she revealed him, I ended up smacking my forehead and saying ‘of course, all the clues were there.’ I think that makes for pretty impressive writing.
I was also impressed at how hard hitting the books could be. I didn’t for one moment expect that a school boy would be killed in a children’s book. Her description of the Dementors in the Prisoner of Azkaban was also very frightening, even for an adult.
The only criticism I have is of the ridiculous hype that has grown around the books. OK, they’re good and I think they’re very good, but they’re still just books.
I was in the supermarket the other day and they announced over the tannoy that the new Harry Potter book would be available at midnight. Well I like the books, but I’m not going to disrupt my beauty sleep to acquire one.
[quote=”Dudelove76″]I have read 3 of the Harry Potter books and there all rip off’s of Star Wars[/quote]
Well that’s an interesting theory. I can’t see it myself. Perhaps you would explain so I can see where you’re coming from.
the bit were Hagrid says not all wizards are good there are bad wizards too, thats just like the whole Jedi dark side vs the force mumbo jumbo, plus Harry Potter was just an ordinary boy until he finds out he has a great destiny, the same thing with Luke Skywalker as he gose on too Jedi school!, plus Magrid (I think I misspelled but who cares) reminds me too much of Darth Vader, cause Luke thought Darth killed his father, and Harry thinks that Magrid killed his father, there are probly more simmilarities too, but the point is its a rip off of Star Wars, and kinda a rip off of the Raul Dauled books too.
Hey, some good points there which I hadn’t picked up on. Mind you, the struggle between good and bad is a theme that runs through many books (especially children’s books since adults do so love to serve morality plays up to them).
There’s a similar theme in the ‘Dark is Rising’ books by Susan Cooper, I don’t know if you’ve read them (Yes, more kids books, I know, but very good none the less). In these, the two sides are actually referred to as ‘The Dark’ and ‘The Light’. The main character is a boy who on his twelth birthday comes into his power as an ‘Old one’ and joins the battle. Also very similar to Star Wars except that the book predated Star Wars by 4 years.
I have to admit that when I read the Harry Potter books, Roald Dahl was the first author I thought of when it came to drawing a similarity. Very funny, but very hard hitting stories when you consider that they are aimed at children.
So to sum up, yes, you’ve made some very good points, but I personally would only go so far as to say there are similarities. I wouldn’t actually call them ‘rip offs’ of either Star Wars or Roald Dahl. 🙂
Typical.
Lets show our ignorance by shouting our mouth off and passing judgement on something we don’t know anything about. Gee, and we wonder why we have wars in this world?
As a Star Wars and Harry Potter fan the closest I can get is that both movies have magic in them. So of course, by this, we can say that Willow, The Neverending Story, Star Wars, Harry Potter, The Wizard of Oz and many others are all rip offs of The Lord Of The Rings. How enlightening.
I thought Harry Potter wouldn’t catch my interest. I picked up a book and couldn’t put it down. Yes, it is a childs book, but if you knew anything about it, you would know that each book is aimed at the age of Harry in each year. The last two books are pretty dark.
Ignorance is bliss, so I’m told.
B.T.W. – On a more serious note… LexxLurker : Im gutted. Halfway through the book and Im not happy. I’d like to hear your thoughts sometime.
Someone once told me that there were only 13 original stories, all other stories were rip-offs (or re-works) of one of those 13.
The latest Harry Potter book is scaring a lot of peeps. It’s huge and doesn’t seem to be as good as the previous ones [i](I think peeps generally prefer Book Three so far).[/i]
Beware however, the e-book rip-off of the Fifth Harry Potter book is actually a badly written fanfic [i](I know someone who has been caught out by this one already) [/i] 🙂
They certainly scared me when I had to shelve 13 of those at work today. Those are fat books compared to most for that age group.
I really don’t see what people have against harry potter. Ok they may not be all that challenging compared to a lot of other literature, but they are fun and imaginative in a candyflossy type of way. Not every film I watch is pushing the boundaries of intellectualism, and neither is every book. HP is harmless fun. Ok maybe not for everyone, but still fun nonetheless. Book 5’s not really a must read for me- can wait for the paperback whilst I get through a lot of other books (books 1-4 were good, but not really memorable to me personally), but chances are I will get around to reading it.
Oh, and don’t start with HP being a rip off on star wars- I could go on for ages as to what star wars ripped off (eg basic plot from hidden fortress 20 yrs earlier as acknowledged by lucas himself on the dvd).
May I make a general observation; it’s mainly people who see it as childish and not worth reading who snub the book and a lot of books/films in the same genre.
Re: the geezer’s comment about the no. of stories- true as long as you don’t take into account the international community- mixing of cultures, books and films reveals new stories to those of us growing up on one set of myths and legends.
Oh just one thing-
1) children’s books
2) midnight release
Is it just me that thinks 1 and 2 aren’t compatible?[quote=”fluffy bunny”]Oh just one thing-
1) children’s books
2) midnight release
Is it just me that thinks 1 and 2 aren’t compatible?[/quote]Haha 🙂
you can just imagine whole lines of bleary eyed 9 year olds waking up all cold and dishevelled outside a bookshop at midnight. Rags on their shoulders, an opened paper bag in their hands, they say in their best Dickenzien voice, “Please can I have some more?”
😀
oh yes, Harry Potter books are sooooooo scary!!!!, the new ones all dark and stuff!!!, HA!!!, you want scary go pick up Alice Cooper’s “Welcome To My Nightmare” album
[quote=”lexxrobotech”]This Alice Cooper… who is she?[/quote]
[b]He[/b] is a glam rocker from the 70s. Looks like Ozzy but is much more [i]there[/i] and intelligent.
Alice being one of those male names now used almost entirely for women, such as Tracy, Stacy, Lesley, Ashley, etc.
Alice Cooper is a shock rocker from the 70’s 80’s 90’s and is still makeing albums today, his sort of the original Marilyn Manson, he looks nothing like Ozzy, I don’t know where you got that from. He is a genius and influence just about everyone in metal and Rock today. he birthname is Vincient Furnier, he legally changed it too Alice Cooper
[img]http://cooper.hobby.ru/images/face.jpg[/img]
Yeah.
Stormsweeper : Thanks, I know who he is. I was just pulling Dudeloves leg. I’ve seen him in concert. Spandex isn’t my thing.
Dudelove : 70’s glam rock isn’t scary… its just sad. Like this board. 😛
It’s all a matter of taste, innit? I mean, for someone who likes Alice Cooper. of course Harry Potter’s gonna look a little tame.
But as for me, I have noticed the books getting steadily darker and darker. You may not notice it if you read them all at once in sequence, but if you compare 1 and 5 together, well….
Personally, there were times when I felt that the only difference between this book and a Ludlum novel was that this one had magic in it. And besides, what Saddy said is true, at least, according to Stephen King…. 😯
😡
am i the only one here who see how stupid this post is??? i have no problem with people voicing their different opinions but come on…..oh of course Straczynski is silent, he must know that this issue is completely idiotici wonder if people actually read credits….you know when they say based on….a novel written 50 years ago!
sigh i guess not
wow i have the urge to hit something really really hard
[url]http://www.bbspot.com/News/2003/07/babylon_5.html[/url]
Am I the only one who read this at the bottom of the page?
[quote] (C) 1999-2003 BBspot LLC
BBspot is a satirical news and comedy source and meant to be funny. If you are easily offended, gullible or don’t have a sense of humor we suggest you go elsewhere. [/quote][quote=”nursewhen”]Am I the only one who read this at the bottom of the page?
[quote] (C) 1999-2003 BBspot LLC
BBspot is a satirical news and comedy source and meant to be funny. If you are easily offended, gullible or don’t have a sense of humor we suggest you go elsewhere. [/quote][/quote]I’d have also thought that the “related news” links would have tipped people off. Yes, a giant spider held a news conference and said that she was looking for more acting roles. 🙄 Oughta be pretty obvious, that.
[size=14]The real question you should vent is: [b]how do you read the book?[/size][/b]
do you read it the child way and get all “smotchi” over the magic
(wich moste pepole sadly cant after reaching the gentle age of 15)
or do you read it the adult way:
a boy in a bad family makes up a dream to forget his real life…*hears how “child shrink” I sound*
[img]http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/nerd.gif[/img]I can ad that Iw read all of the books, “the Order of the Fenix” took me two days since I couldnt put it down…
(I read it the first way since my brain will never evolve… i hope)and as I se it 3-5 are the best ones yet!
I wanted to read it again but my mother stole it [img]http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/wheezer/face.gif[/img]and nursewhen, when I read the first book I thought it whas by Roal Dhal…
It reminded me about his book “the witches”[size=9]btw dudelove, If I wanted scary Id just skip putting my makeup on: [color=red][/color][img]http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/alien.gif[/img][/size]
[quote=”nasym”]and nursewhen, when I read the first book I thought it was by Roal Dhal…
It reminded me about his book “the witches”[/quote]I quite agree. It reminded me of witches too. As I said in my previous post… 😉
[quote=”Nursewhen”]I have to admit that when I read the Harry Potter books, Roald Dahl was the first author I thought of when it came to drawing a similarity[/quote] 😀
[quote=”Nasym”]The real question you should vent is: how do you read the book?
do you read it the child way and get all “smotchi” over the magic
(wich moste pepole sadly cant after reaching the gentle age of 15)
or do you read it the adult way:
a boy in a bad family makes up a dream to forget his real life… [/quote]
I’ve never actually thought about how I read the book. 😕I read it and believed it (within the book). I think the only difference between how I read it as an adult and how I would have read it as child is that as an adult, I saw more levels than I would have seen as a child.
Also, as an adult I resisted the urge to grab my broom from the shed and try to fly on it and I didn’t try to get any of the magic words to work.However, I fully believe that Harry Potter himself can fly (within the book) in the same way that I believe the Vorlons created telepaths. 😀
Ive read them all, and I love them all.
It’s a great read. Its simple, fun and fulled with magic. I couldn’t be arse’d with whatever anyone else thinks about it. My taste, my pleasure!
BTW.
My favourite character is the one that dies. How sad is that? It wasn’t even a ‘cool’ death. It was so sudden and simple.
Newkate is reading book five now…. still! I don’t think she’s too impressed. I think her fave book was book three.
[quote=”lexxrobotech”]
BTW.
My favourite character is the one that dies. How sad is that? It wasn’t even a ‘cool’ death. It was so sudden and simple.[/quote]
To a degree I thought it was almost perfect, because so often a character that is going to die has TONS of scenes where they recoincile their past, or die doing some really brave thing etc…
This death imo was almost perfect. Blazing into the frey(sorry Frey!) screaming maniacally then BAM! Nuked by an evil witchs wand. At least there was no physical body to deal with afterward.
Plus the character in question truly needed to be killed off, there was far too much inner conflict between his background and the Orders philosophy. What I was disapointed in was how they dealt with the death(Did anyone else care besides Harry? Dumbledore almost seemed he couldent care less, but he took some blame) and the ending was a bit too tightly wrapped up.
As to what SadGeezer said about Newkate, I’d have to agree with her Saddy. This volume is a bit too verbose, but VERY VERY dark, but not her best work. I still like the 4th book best personally.
I think the real reason it’s not the [b]Best[/b] may have to do with the fanfare and ENORMOUS anticipation for this book.
I’d personally say:
Book4
Book 3/5 tieAnd books 1&2 just arent that great, see the movies instead IMO =) The real series doesent start until book 3 in many ways.
Book three is still my best one.
The twist at the end was super and of course, Black was introduced.
I think Gary Oldman will play the perfect Black.
One thing that I really enjoyed in book V was the information about the house of Black. I liked his background, dark and pure.
It’s not what you expect. Also, I liked the fact that James Potter wasn’t such a good guy, and that Snape isn’t such a bad guy. Ive had the feeling that we were going to find that out sooner or later.
I would much prefer Sirius to live and have Harry go home with him. Perhaps even getting Dobby along. Thats probably just the child in me.
[color=yellow][size=18]Warning spoiler!!![/size][/color]
[size=17]if you havent read the fifth dont read this!!![/size]
(black text)
[color=black]I think Sirius dying was a perfect escape for JK Rowling, since now Harry has a house
(of course Sirius wanted Harry to have it)
And now Harry needs to find a new father figure…
(probably mr Weasly)
couse when he had Sirius he was slipping away from Arthur Weasly and Dumbeldore… and from his “family”.
+ we all knew it had to be some reason Dumbledore wanted Harry to live there and semed to think that harry was beeing to dramatic when he said Petunia hated him.the man knows EVERYTHING else!!
btw, on a scale of one to ten how much didnt you hate miss Umbridge?[/color]
(no more black text)
Its fun getting to discusse this, when I try to talk books with my friends they just look at me like Im a gren fluffy monster in a pink teddy….
[quote=”lexxrobotech”]I SO hated Umbridge! I wish she died! What a plonker![/quote]
The “Hand Scratching” chapters gave me the willies. All those years of Catholic school I guess 😕
poor you… and pooooor harry…
You realy get that
[img]http://smilies.sofrayt.com/1/0/saw.gif[/img]or
[img]http://smilies.sofrayt.com/1/0/turok.gif[/img]
Well I’m half way through the fifth book now and I’m afraid I’m not impressed so far 🙁
For me, the humour just isn’t working, the plot is very linear and there’s too much padding.
I’m also finding a lot of visual stuff, like the memos all flying around in the lifts at the ministry. It’s as if Rowling is now writing with an eye to how it’ll look when they make it into a film.I think Its har for her to not do that… she allready “sold” seven books to WB, and they have a tendensy to change good things…
and why this one was so late was becous she had some dissagreement with WB 👿
I seem to be reading more and more children’s books recently. Harry Potter being only one series of the many.
Of the huge number I’ve been reading, this series is certainly one of the better ones. Although i have to say that Tamora Pierce holds her own as well with her books about the Tortall universe. (her newest book is coming out in two weeks, and i’m not ashamed to say that i’ve already booked my copy, and plan to spend the day reading. yay!)
But as for HP being a rip off of star wars – nope, if anything it’s drawn from Lord of the Rings. Been reading that recently too, for a class at uni, and the number of things that jump out, being familiar from the recent readings of HP are huge.
But, for me, that just makes them even cosier. Almost familiar in a way. Because, although they may have bits and pieces of other books, they’re still pretty unique in the way they capture the imagination.
I have to say, of everything, i have two gripes:
1. A basalisk is not a serpent, it is a lizard creature. grr, all through the second book i was really angry, or at least after the part they started talking about it. I mean, that’s a really huge mistake, that could have been easily rectified. It also gives those with no idea of mythological beasts wrong concepts.2. The fifth book is much like the second lord of the rings movie, in the sense that it’s a filler. There’s nothing really there that is huge. Sure, someone dies, Voldemort comes back to power, and Harry goes through some teenage angstyness, but it’s still all just filler. You’re really left hanging at the end of it, rather than it being a story unto itself as the others are.
Not so impressed as i was with the others, but still hanging out for the next one.
There are a couple of little things in the Harry Potter books that are not so cool.
Like in the first one the Burmese Python winks at him. Snakes can’t wink. They don’t have eyelids as such. (Well, they sort of do, but on the inside of their eyes… and it’s more of a membrane)
Still, the basalisk part isn’t really a problem. They didn’t know what the creature was exactly. Only Salzaar Slytherin and his heir new what the creature was. The rest was Harry, Ron and Hermoine’s guess work really. The movie is where the slip up takes place.
Book five is my least favourite.
I like book 3 best by far.
[quote=”Jennicide”]1. A basalisk is not a serpent, it is a lizard creature. grr, all through the second book i was really angry, or at least after the part they started talking about it. I mean, that’s a really huge mistake, that could have been easily rectified. It also gives those with no idea of mythological beasts wrong concepts.
[/quote]I’m afraid I have to disagree with you here. A Basilisk (Cockatrice) IS a serpent. In fact, it’s a cross between a serpent and a chicken.
[img]http://www.planethelen.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/photos/uploads/basilisk1.jpg[/img]
Image nicked [url=http://www.occultopedia.com/b/basilisk.htm]from here[/url]
Also, since the myth of the basilisk may have grown from tales of cobras, the Harry Potter basilisk may have actually been more true than we give it credit for.
There is a basilisk which is a lizard, but that is a real animal, not a myth.
The most remarkable thing about about the Harry Potter books is the hype surrounding them, true. They are nonetheless very entertaining and deal with dark subjects, with some glimpses of a scarred world emerging from the more childish concerns, and there is at times a real air of menace, (which so far in my opinions has not transferred to the terrible films at all). As far as i’m concerned, anything that gets kids reading things with deeper mythological themes and in the SFF genre is all to the good ( it might make them a bit more open-minded about it when they grow up, for one thing). The only sad thing about the hype is that much better children’s books in simliar genres have been largely ignored or are regarded by kids as Harry Potter rip-offs, e.g. just about anything by Diana Winn Jones, Rosemary Sutcliffe, Ursula Le Guin’s Earthsea books, Madeline L’Engle’s A Wrinkle in Time, Alan Garner’s novels esp Elidor, the Narnia series, The Hobbit. I would consider these all far deeper, darker, more beautiful and better-written than J.K. Rowling’s works, and most of them as works of literature rather than simple entertainment. They mean something beyond the immediate narrative It also bothers me that despite being a woman, Rowling has chosen not to challenge any of the sex-linked prejudices commonly bound up esp in the more simple works of the the SFF genres and made her hero on his quest a boy. And don’t throw Hermione at me, she is at best a sidekick who can help Harry by her acceptably feminine academic prowess.
Interesting comment ShadowedVenus, but according to the stats, most of JK’s readers are male.
I always laugh at ~sexist~ comments. To say that [quote] Rowling has chosen not to challenge any of the sex-linked prejudices commonly bound up esp in the more simple works of the the SFF genres and made her hero on his quest a boy [/quote] is very entertaining to me. It’s kind of like saying to avoid it being offensive you should never use a male as the hero of your story. 🙄
By the by, what do you mean by [quote] acceptably feminine academic prowess [/quote] ?
Yes, Hermoine is a side kick, JUST LIKE RON, but we don’t see people calling it sexist because one of the main side kicks is male. Besides, if the Hermoine was the main character, the books would have been called the Hermoine Granger books and not the Harry Potter books.
[quote=”ShadowedVenus”]It also bothers me that despite being a woman, Rowling has chosen not to challenge any of the sex-linked prejudices commonly bound up esp in the more simple works of the the SFF genres and made her hero on his quest a boy.[/quote]
Well that depends entirely on which sex-linked prejudices you care to pick. If we go for the old ‘female authors are incapable of creating convincing male characters’, then I think you’ll agree that she blew that one completely out of the water.What does worry me is that she was advised to make her pen name JK Rowling so as not to lose the 11 year old male audience who may be put off by a female author. ([url=http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/childrenandteens/story/0,6000,474412,00.html]Sourced from The Guardian[/url].)
Mind you, now that the word is out and everybody knows she’s female, perhaps that’s another sex-linked stereotype that’s she’s blown out of the water.
If you ask me, she’s doing a good job on that front 😀Okay not trying to get too academic on this (I’m at uni so used to using this sort of language a lot). All I meant was that it is really typical for heroes of popular SFF esp ‘quest’ novels to be male. This literary form has its roots in bardic tales where the subject was typically male and the object female, such as Tristan and Iseult or most of the Tales of King Arthur and his Knights. I read many of these growing up and much as I enjoyed them it annoyed me that any female reading them would have to become male-identifed while reading it to enjoy them. I’m not saying that no one should ever make their protagonists male, I’m saying that it annoys me that authors very typically do. And where did you get that stats saying that most of JK Rowlings readers are male? I have read plenty of newspaper articles about it applying equally to girls and boys, references to adult readers have always been to just that, and not to ‘men readers’, and, anecdotally, I know equal numbers of adults of both sexes who enjoy the books. You may also be interested to know that when George lucas originally proposed the idea that was to become Star Wars, the ‘Luke Skywalker’ character was actually a woman called Starkiller. The studio refused to approve the idea unless he changed the sex of his protagonist because 1) a female protagonist would alienate the propsed target audience 2) a female protagonist just isn’t ‘sexy’ 3) they felt a woman on a quest to fight evil was unconvincing.
nursewhen, I’m not at all surprised re the JK Rowling incident it’s similar to the one Edith nesbit encountered when publishing children’s books of similar themes. Though admittedly that was in 1905 and it would be nice to think things have moved on a bit since then. I didn’t know there was supposed to be a prejudice about female authors being unable to write convincing male characters I actually thought it was supposed to be the other way round, because women are supposed to be ‘intuitive’.
I really enjoyed the Order of the Phoenix I thought the dark tone was generally convincingly nasty. I really liked the blood pen incident that was just so genuinely sick! I had some teachers at school which often thought up things of a similar flavour, like punnishing someone with a weak stomach by ordering them to empty the classroom bin at the school tip. And to be sure to scrape out the bottom. And if they hadn’t cleaned it out thoroughly, sending them back to do it in the middle of the tip. While they watched. And smiled.[quote] where did you get that stats saying that most of JK Rowlings readers are male? [/quote]
Well, you can look at the Bloomsbury site for official demographics.
You can also search most Harry Potter sites like http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org , They publish most of the interesting facts about the books.
Also, in the Chamber of Secrets DVD you can watch an interview with JK where she talks about her books being more popular with boys than with girls.
Now just so you understand more clearly, neither I nor JK are saying that the books aren’t popular with girls, it’s just that they have a higher male readership rate.
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