Prince equals HDS?
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Continued from the original “Kai, possible founder of the Divine Order?” thread
Possible S4 spoilers.quote:
Originally posted by Squish:
[b]
So if HDS was reborn, it’s quite possible to assume that like Prince he could be reincarnated time and again.
Or could it be that if Prince is the devil, that he corrupted another (like an Anti-christ), and that person took the form of all historical tyrants like Genghis Khan, Hitler and Vlad the Impaler, and that the last reincarnation was HDS. Thus completing a full circle i.e Prince was responsible for HDS, but HDS came before Prince.
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I have been thinking along those same lines. I have not quite worked it all out yet and there are probably some big holes in this theory but here goes anyway.
Price is pure evil given corporal form. What if a benign insect life form took (will take) possession of Prince for communicating with humans or whatever. Well since Prince is no ordinary human, but merely evil masquerading in human form, the insect essence becomes confused and overpowered by the evil Prince. Now either the insect is controlled by Prince and becomes HDS or the insect believes that all humans are as base and evil as Prince and vows to destroy all of humanity by becoming HDS.I was originally thinking that since we were not given any time frame between when Prince arrived on Earth to when the Lexx showed up, that maybe the HDS/DO symbols and figures in Earths past could be attributed to Prince. However, since Prince was in fear of his apparent mortal life in TexxLexx, I seriously doubt he could have survived on Earth all those millennium.
I am not sold on the whole ‘time travel’ business. I think that instead of time starting over and ogre again, maybe the same (or at least very similar) events occur over and ogre again throughout time. But then again my understanding of temporal mechanics is very limited.
Seems like there was more, but it has left me and probably for good (I should really write these things down as they come to me instead of waiting days and then trying to recall what it was that I was thinking), oh well.
antiZero
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quote:
Originally posted by antizero:
[b]I have not quite worked it all out yet and there are probably some big holes in this theory[/b]…
Ya got that right, Anti0. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] I understand that the Divine Shadow/Prince theory isn’t really serious, but I’m gonna point out flaws anyway. I’m going to discuss this on a mostly philosophical level, since we have little physical evidence to work from.
The Prince of Fire is metaphysical, His Divine Shadow is only pseudometaphysical. What I mean by that is Prince [b]is[/b] the Devil, but His Shadow isn’t God. He’s just a man pretending to be God. I know His Shadow isn’t exactly a “man” in the traditional sense, being part Insect, but he is still mortal and bound by the laws of the physical universes. Prince, in contrast was created in a season where the laws of science were thrown out to build a modern day version of Dante’s [i]Inferno[/i].
Another major difference between the two characters is that Prince’s job is to spread evil and chaos, while His Shadow sees it as his function to create and enforce order throughout all of existence. Granted, his order isn’t exactly the kind of order most humans would consider [b]good[/b], it still stems from a philosophy directly antithetical to Prince’s.
Okay, here’s the major difference as I see it: His Divine Shadow is human, Prince is a inhuman. Like I said up above, I know His Shadow isn’t exactly human, his consciousness comes from an Insect, but his mental workings are like ours. You can understand his thoughts, feel his pain, and see his inner conflict. There is pathos. Prince is the exact opposite of this. There’s nothing human about him. Prince is the corporeal manifestation of chaos and depravity in the universes. He is the [b]definition[/b] of evil. He says it himself: “Because I’m bad.” You would never hear His Divine Shadow say anything like that. He believes what he’s doing is good. He’s accelerating and focusing humanity’s destructive tendancies in order to reestablish a murdered race. What he does may be awful, but in his mind he’s just robbing the rich to feed the poor. Prince, on the other hand, knows and openly acknowledges that what he’s doing is wrong, but he does it anyway.
His Divine Shadow and Prince are both enamies is [i]Lexx[/i], but the similarity ends there.
——————
Lee P. Sherman, code name DalekTek790
Whovian, Froudian, Lexxian, etc.
quote:
Originally posted by DalekTek790:
[b]Another major difference between the two characters is that Prince’s job is to spread evil and chaos, while His Shadow sees it as his function to create and enforce order throughout all of existence. Granted, his order isn’t exactly the kind of order most humans would consider [b]good[/b], it still stems from a philosophy directly antithetical to Prince’s.
Okay, here’s the major difference as I see it: His Divine Shadow is human, Prince is a inhuman. Like I said up above, I know His Shadow isn’t exactly human, his consciousness comes from an Insect, but his mental workings are like ours. You can understand his thoughts, feel his pain, and see his inner conflict. There is pathos. Prince is the exact opposite of this. There’s nothing human about him. Prince is the corporeal manifestation of chaos and depravity in the universes. He is the [b]definition[/b] of evil. He says it himself: “Because I’m bad.” You would never hear His Divine Shadow say anything like that. He believes what he’s doing is good. He’s accelerating and focusing humanity’s destructive tendancies in order to reestablish a murdered race. What he does may be awful, but in his mind he’s just robbing the rich to feed the poor. Prince, on the other hand, knows and openly acknowledges that what he’s doing is wrong, but he does it anyway.
His Divine Shadow and Prince are both enamies is [i]Lexx[/i], but the similarity ends there.
[/B]
I get the point about Prince promoting chaos while HDS enforces order and I think it’s a good paralell, but I still don’t see what humanity, inner conflict, or pathos you’re talking about. It is _possible_ that HDS has those qualities, but he never justifies his actions one way or another. He never says “I’m doing this because…”, which leaves us to draw our own conclusions about his motives, and I think he’s just a big nasty evil *******. Just my point of view on this topic.
——————
Gideon: I thought you said you don’t hold a grudge.
Galen: I don’t. I have no living enemies. At all.a quick thought: I don’t see the insect civilization as evil, they just want to exterminate human life. Prince is evil, but he thinks that human life it too much fun to exterminate totally. See you all in 3 weeks.
I think Prince and HDS are related to each other, but not directly.
As I mentioned before it could be that Prince somehow found a way to allow another person to share his immortality (he was looking at xev to become his queen, essentially looking for a partner to share in his evil ways, had she accepted, Prince could have probably made her immortal), when on earth he could have sought out someone he felt shared his passion for evil, and made them immortal through reincarnation (i.e the Anti-christ).
This person would be the one responsible for ensuring that evil continues within the human world, while Prince oversees the pain of his hell dimension (like on fire).
The chosen individual would take many forms over the millenia, and in the very distant future would find a way to combine himself into another form, that form would involve an insect (which could have been an alien race evolved from our insects), in a sense cross breeding to make a more powerful being.
The insect wars could have started because the insects wanted hosts and were dying out, the humans fought to stop this and eventually won…although the Anti-christ was reincarnated along with the insect essence, and tricked mankind into believing that he protected them, while secretly waiting for the time of the Gigashadow and the cleansing.
Anyway the last reincarnation being HDS, and he being the last and worst reincarnation of Evil, meant that when he was destroyed that time had gone full circle.
Then the cycle of Evil started again with Prince, who probably started the whole cycle with the help of the Lexx crew.
Probably why he was so greatful to Zev for destroying fire, he may have known that the cycle was going to happen, and had spent an eternity on Fire waiting for it happen…he was glad to get away from Fire so that he could become more than he was.
So that’s what I believe the Time Prophet meant,’It has happened before, it shall happen again’.
So Paul, Lex and Jeffrey have basically had a continuation going for the whole of the Lexx series, Season One, the demise of the divine order and HDS, Season two, Mantrid destroys a universe, but that universe will be created again, and Season three Prince the originator of all Evil starts the cycle of time again.
It’s so subtle it could be true, I wonder if Paul will ever tell us?, if it is, then the guy is amazing, he’s done something that only George Lucas has had the intelligence to do, as essentially season 3 is a prequel to the other seasons in a way.——————
Squishy
quote:
Originally posted by DalekTek790:
[b]
Ya got that right, Anti0. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] I understand that the Divine Shadow/Prince theory isn’t really serious, but I’m gonna point out flaws anyway. I’m going to discuss this on a mostly philosophical level, since we have little physical evidence to work from.
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Well I did have it worked out in my head to where it made a little bit more sense, at least to me.
quote:
[b]
The Prince of Fire is metaphysical, His Divine Shadow is only pseudometaphysical. What I mean by that is Prince [b]is[/b] the Devil, but His Shadow isn’t God. He’s just a man pretending to be God. I know His Shadow isn’t exactly a “man” in the traditional sense, being part Insect, but he is still mortal and bound by the laws of the physical universes. Prince, in contrast was created in a season where the laws of science were thrown out to build a modern day version of Dante’s [i]Inferno[/i].
[/B]
Yeah, but is Prince still immortal in this season? His ‘soul’ and the evil that resides there may be, but his physicall body may not be. The bridge scene in TexxLexx with him and Stan is what I base that assumption on.
quote:
[b]
Another major difference between the two characters is that Prince’s job is to spread evil and chaos, while His Shadow sees it as his function to create and enforce order throughout all of existence. Granted, his order isn’t exactly the kind of order most humans would consider [b]good[/b], it still stems from a philosophy directly antithetical to Prince’s.
[/B]
Ok, but what if through contact with Prince, the insect civilization(HDS) decides that all of humanity is evil, so therefore to impose order throughout all of existence, HDS devises the plan to ‘cleanse’ the universe of all humanity. Not necessarily an evil thing in the eyes of HDS because to rid the universe of the human SKUMM would be a good thing.
quote:
[b]
Okay, here’s the major difference as I see it: His Divine Shadow is human, Prince is a inhuman. Like I said up above, I know His Shadow isn’t exactly human, his consciousness comes from an Insect, but his mental workings are like ours. You can understand his thoughts, feel his pain, and see his inner conflict. There is pathos. Prince is the exact opposite of this. There’s nothing human about him. Prince is the corporeal manifestation of chaos and depravity in the universes. He is the [b]definition[/b] of evil. He says it himself: “Because I’m bad.” You would never hear His Divine Shadow say anything like that. He believes what he’s doing is good. He’s accelerating and focusing humanity’s destructive tendancies in order to reestablish a murdered race. What he does may be awful, but in his mind he’s just robbing the rich to feed the poor. Prince, on the other hand, knows and openly acknowledges that what he’s doing is wrong, but he does it anyway.[/B]
I agree with most of that. It was not my intention to say that HDS and Prince were the same, but that Prince may have (had) a hand in creating what we know as HDS.
Ok, the topic ‘Prince equals HDS’ is a bit misleading, I should have titled it something along the lines of Prince creates HDS?thanks for playing
[img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]antiZero
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[This message has been edited by antizero (edited July 27, 2001).]
quote:
Originally posted by DalekTek790:
[b]
The Prince of Fire is metaphysical, His Divine Shadow is only pseudometaphysical. [/b]
Hmm. I think you mean that the Prince of Fire is metaphysical and HDS is physycal. Don’t worry, saying a smaller word doesn’t make your point less right. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] And if you say anything about HDS having an immortal soul, then you are, philosophically, accepting that everyone is “psuedometaphysical”.
Anyway, like many followers of religion over several thousand years, some of you seem to be mixing the metaphysical with the physical. Formulating theories on how some planned succesion of evil has been made by the entity Prince seeems to me like saying that original sin came from a fruit tree in a garden. This is ultimately a moral ideology and must be taken on a purely metaphysical ground.
I also find difficulty in DalekTek’s thoughts on HDS and Prince. Prince’s conversations, especially in “Heaven and Hell”, seem to put him across in the same way that Satan was put across in “The Devil’s Advocate” and “End of Days”. He is ultimately a care-taker for the down-and-outs of humanity. He admits that he is bad because he knows this and accepts it not only in himself, but in others. He doesn’t decide “Hmm. I think I’ll make him evil,” but accepts that there are two sides to the coin and that humanity is ultimately flawed. “Evil” is a concept. To say that Prince is the manifestation of evil is not to say that all evil stemms from him, but that he holds all the qualities inherent to the concept. (God, I’m beginning to sound like Plato [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img] )
Anyway, HDS fools himself into believing that what he is doing is “right” or “order”, since it ultimately aids only himself. His final plan, remember, was to enter a giant insect and devour the universe. That is chaos. Prince accepts his position in the universe and aims to do what he can within his boundries. That is law.
As for the human/inhuman stuff, as I have already said, Prince accepts evil in humanity. He accepts that he is evil too. He is there-fore more human than HDS, who tried to exeed his limits as a mortal. But “human” and “inhuman” does not at all indicate “good” and “evil”. So instead, I would trade them for “chaotic” and “lawful”. HDS seeks destruction regardless of how he rationalises it. Prince is simply a being who knows his own nature and the nature of almost everything else. Again, he is not the cause of evil, otherwise he could not logically exist (cause of evil + personification = contradiction) plus he does not remember his own creation. He was created at the begining of time to act as a personification of an immortal concept. Prince accepts that what he does is wrong and does it anyway because he has no choice. It is what he is.
My points so far have been in contradiction of DalekTek (sorry, but you said you were discussing it philosophicaly and, hell, I’m a philosopher!) As for other points about “contact” with Prince, I think you are mixing up the concept, “evil”, with the entity, Prince. HDS had evil in him as did Hitler, Vlad the Impaler, etc. who were mentioned at the start of this thread. Therefore, the concept of evil had “touched” all of them, in a sense, but this not be due to physical contact with Prince, who is simply a personification.
Also, on this topic of morality and Devil/Prince comparisons, notice there is no personification or ruler for Water. Is this due to the heirarchy of Fire needing a leader and Water, being less rigid, not needing one? Or is there a force of good (God?) who organises Water without physical manifestation? Just a thought…
As I said, I’m a philosopher (o.k, I’m only 17, but I am studying it [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] ) and I couldn’t resist blurting out some theoretical nonsense based on a fictional story. But everyone else had started it, so my opinions had to come out. Sorry for contradicting everyone but that’s kinda what philosophy is! I have said a bit too much, but it was DalekTek who said it was a philosophical discussion. So blame him. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img][This message has been edited by Ptarg (edited July 28, 2001).]
I was the person who brought Vlad the Impaler and Hitler into the equation, and I did not mention that Prince would have had to of had physical contact with them or HDS.
What I did say was that Prince was evidently looking for someone who could share his joy of pain and suffering (he thought that Xev would suffice when asking her to become his queen…she refused), so when he arrived on Earth he may have found someone and gave them the gift of reincarnation.
So that person could become Genghis Khan, Vlad the Impaler, Hitler and HDS, but then after Prince had found his envoy on earth, he never had physical contact with that person again. As Prince knew that this person would continue to do as Prince would without his help, maybe Prince was in fear of no longer existing and needed someone who would take his place in this eventuality.
As for Water, it would be possible to say that the planet itself was good, and did not require a physical presence to manifest itself. I think Prince knew that mankind was inherently good, and it was his job to promote evil in mankind. He could not change the goodness on water and needed somebody to destroy it, so that good and evil would become one on earth, i.e sharing the souls of man. Where on Fire and Water were two completely separate entities, Prince just could not stand the fact that he could not infect Water with pain and suffering as the people of Water were just reborn again on Water…and he could not torment them, thus he hated them.
As we know the people of Fire were not reborn, they suffered for eternity, there was one that could be reborn…Duke, he may have been Princes first attempt at having a partner to share his passion for pain, but he turned on Prince.
The other people that were alive on Fire, could have been allowed to live and be reborn so that Prince could see if they could be his partner, the others being needed for him to fufill his plans.
*Possible link for HDS, Prince and the insect wars:
I think that HDS may have been the result of genetic manipulation on the part of Princes creation, as he looked to become more powerful than just a man, this could tie in nicely with a terrible future for mankind.
HDS like Hitler obviously had a penchant for experimentation, it could mean that the insect wars were the results of experiments by the first HDS where he started turning men into insects, like himself.——————
Squishy
quote:
Originally posted by Squish:
[b]I think Prince knew that mankind was inherently good, and it was his job to promote evil in mankind.
[/b]
This is what I have difficulty with. From season 3, there was no indication that Prince had any knowledge of the universes beyond Fire and Water. He had an extremely superior understanding of the nature of these planets but, like everyone else, he simply knew all he had experienced since “waking up”. He handled, to an extent, which souls went where but he never had any knowledge of the previous state of these souls. He seemed puzzled and intrigued regarding the Lexx and its crew who were on their “first life”. Oh, and why do you say that the people on Fire were not reborn? The souls under Fire’s surface were waiting to be reborn on the surface. When Stan’s Fire incarnation was killed on Fire, he returned to the line. Duke is the only one to remember from life to life and Prince had the inate ability to asume another form after rebirth. His sphere of influence was Fire and, when he used balloons, Water to an extent. He could not affect Humanity because Humanity was almost completely dead and stuck in the continious cycle of death and rebirth, memories being erased with each rebirth.
Prince also rarely seems to show hate. He cooly explained to Kai under Fire that he simply tried to eliminate it because it was good. He didn’t have any strong reason apart from the fact that he was evil. He knew that these sides were in opposition and merely went along with it. He did what he felt was expected from him. Again, he shows that he is generaly lawful.
[b]
I think that HDS may have been the result of genetic manipulation on the part of Princes creation,
[/b]
This, as well, seems to suggest a physical conection between HDS and Prince and I may understand what you are trying to get at if you elaborated on where this idea comes from. It may involve something about this connnection with Earth’s historical figures and, again, it seems to suggest that Prince, as an entity, has had influence with the universes outside Fire and Water, which he has never encountered. I’m sorry, but this reply seems to imply what you were dismissing at the begining of your post. And I say again, I was using metaphysical concepts. Prince is simply a person on a Planet. Evil is a universal concept. HDS and Prince share this aspect of themselves, but why the genetic thing? Genetics are physical and morality is metaphysical ie. “beyond” physics.p.s Why is Genghis Khan considered evil? He simply lived up to the ideals of his people to an extent which lead to the building of an empire. He didn’t care much for the empire, simply for the honour gained by battle. But that’s another thing altogether. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Don’t feel you have to argue with this, just stating my view. [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
This is what I have difficulty with. From season 3, there was no indication that Prince had any knowledge of the universes beyond Fire and Water. He had an extremely superior understanding of the nature of these planets but, like everyone else, he simply knew all he had experienced since “waking up”. He handled, to an extent, which souls went where but he never had any knowledge of the previous state of these souls. He seemed puzzled and intrigued regarding the Lexx and its crew who were on their “first life”. Oh, and why do you say that the people on Fire were not reborn? The souls under Fire’s surface were waiting to be reborn on the surface. When Stan’s Fire incarnation was killed on Fire, he returned to the line. Duke is the only one to remember from life to life and Prince had the inate ability to asume another form after rebirth. His sphere of influence was Fire and, when he used balloons, Water to an extent. He could not affect Humanity because Humanity was almost completely dead and stuck in the continious cycle of death and rebirth, memories being erased with each rebirth.
Prince also rarely seems to show hate. He cooly explained to Kai under Fire that he simply tried to eliminate it because it was good. He didn’t have any strong reason apart from the fact that he was evil. He knew that these sides were in opposition and merely went along with it. He did what he felt was expected from him. Again, he shows that he is generaly lawful.*Squish* The point I was making was that Prince was glad in the end that both planets had been destroyed, why would he feel this way if it didn’t mean he would go on to another level of existence. Surely he wouldn’t be happy that his reign over fire had ended and that would be that, everything that he said before could have been said deceitfully to lull the Lexx crew into believing that he didn’t have a higher agenda.
Hate was the wrong word to use in Prince’s view, however, he did want water out of the way and I could not think of another way of describing that feeling other than hate.
Prince may have had no emotional imperative to destroy Water, maybe he was just knew for some reason it had to be destroyed, but to what end, he knew Fire could not continue without Water, because I still feel he had knowledge of a new future, but chose not to disclose it in case his plans were upset.
I was in error on the rebirth part of Fire, and concede that Fire did have different ‘levels’ of being, but Water did not.
As for humanity not living, I would have to say that from our view that is not living, but the people on water being reincarnated is no different from the buddhist view of afterlife. So I still think that humanity was very much alive on these two planets.
The beings on water were unattainable to Prince, as they were reborn without going through fire, maybe he didn’t like the fact they escaped the punishment inflicted on Fire. Prince wanted all the souls to be his to enjoy, but because there was no trace of evil in them he couldn’t have them.
I don’t think that Prince could just go along with the battles between Fire and water,
as Water was his nemesis, but he lied throughout season 3 and his true motives didn’t come to light until the very end.I think that HDS may have been the result of genetic manipulation on the part of Princes creation,
This, as well, seems to suggest a physical conection between HDS and Prince and I may understand what you are trying to get at if you elaborated on where this idea comes from. It may involve something about this connnection with Earth’s historical figures and, again, it seems to suggest that Prince, as an entity, has had influence with the universes outside Fire and Water, which he has never encountered. I’m sorry, but this reply seems to imply what you were dismissing at the begining of your post. And I say again, I was using metaphysical concepts. Prince is simply a person on a Planet. Evil is a universal concept. HDS and Prince share this aspect of themselves, but why the genetic thing? Genetics are physical and morality is metaphysical ie. “beyond” physics.
*Squish* I still can’t see how physical contact comes into this, Prince will never meet HDS.
With the genetic manipulation, I meant that the final reincarnation of Princes partner could have used genetic’s to change himself.
Prince would no longer be in the frame at this time, so cannot have any bearing on future events…but in a in another way does as he created the anti-christ(the first, not the last).
Now the bible implies that the Anti-christ will take form, and we believe it will be in the vessel of a human being.
The Devil however will not be seen, but will rule the earth through his emissary (the anti-christ), so Prince may go beyond being a human form and take the role of the Devil in how we see it today.Like you said Prince, when on fire could not have influenced things in the universe on that planet, but the ball may have started rolling when he got to earth.
Prince knew there was something beyond Fire and Water, he wasn’t sure what, only that he was happy that both had been destroyed…so I ask you why did that please him?
Prince was a liar, and lied constantly to Kai, Zev and Stan (the nature of the devil), he knew what he would become after Fire and Water, plus with the combination of souls, he would finally be able to gather more souls on Earth than he did on either Fire or Water.
I disagree with the theory that in the Lexx universe evil was universal, it’s a true concept in real life, but not in the case of Lexx. The Devil is the embodiment of Evil, we have acknowledged that Prince is the Devil, this could mean that this was the first time that evil had taken form and that Prince was in fact the essence of the first evil.
So with that, when Lexx first arrived at Fire at Water, the history of man and good and evil first began, and time (not the universe ) had started it’s cycle again.p.s Why is Genghis Khan considered evil? He simply lived up to the ideals of his people to an extent which lead to the building of an empire. He didn’t care much for the empire, simply for the honour gained by battle. But that’s another thing altogether. Don’t feel you have to argue with this, just stating my view
*Squish Genghis Khan has been considered as a candidate for an Anti-christ due to the methods he used in his conquering of the world.
He demanded that his generals perform unspeakable acts on the people in other countries, he did not allow these people to live and insisted they die by means of torture. He is responsible for mass genocide,
but gained notoriety because he was possibly the biggest life taker in human history, and like I said he did it through maiming and torture.Prince is very like the medieval devil. In medieval theology, the devil was referred to as ‘Prince of the powers of the air'(ballons) and as a ‘tempter of men’and a punisher,remember what Prince says to Xev; “I tempt those who need to be tempted and punish those who need to be punished”.
Hypatia, based on your last post, do you believe it’s possible that Prince becomes the Devil on Earth and therefore creates an anti-christ?
Can I just say (no offence to anyone) that metaphysics, morality, physics and philosophy really aren’t neccessary and don’t really have any bearing on a fictional topic.
The rights and wrongs here don’t really matter, only whether a theory on the storyline is plausible.
I mean you could go for days arguing about these things, and what would it acheive?, so please let’s keep on track with the Prince having a loose connection to HDS thread.
Sorry if that seems a bit rude. But I’m right and you’re wrong (only kidding).
Squishy.——————
SquishyGod, i’m really being OTT in this thread with all these posts, but heh, that’s what it’s for…right?
Anyway I have something to add from a statement I wrote in a previous post:So with that, when Lexx first arrived at Fire at Water, the history of man and good and evil first began, and time (not the universe ) had started it’s cycle again.
I’ve just remembered that with Dark Zone destroyed and the light zone cleansed of humans (did I get that the right way round?), meant that Stanley was the only remaining human (I know Xev is , but she’s only half)…I didn’t realise Stan meant it literally, because after Mantrid I was sure that they would find humans…only now I realise there were none, DAH.
So I think that it’s feasible that the cycle of time had begun again with fire and water, because how did HDS miss these two planets in the cleansing?…they were not there at the time of the cleansing perhaps?.
And that Prince was indeed the first evil ever, and is evil as an entity, not just in state of mind, but evil itself.
So HDS must have come after Prince, long after Prince, and then only two possibilities remain, Prince is reincarnated hundreds of times over, and then finally is reincarnated as the original Divine Shadow.
Or it falls to the Anti-christ theory.——————
Squishysquish sry to burst yuor bubble but you are confused about the universes. HDS ruled the LIGHT zone and he cleansed the light sone. mantrid is fro mthe light zone adn he destroyed the light zone. the dark zone is left. however your theory could still work as the time prophet said that time is a circle. and you idea on the prequel thing is still valid. adn i think there may be a prine HDS connection but lets wait and watch the new eps for a while to see what up
Thanx Stans#1 fan, I’ve just realised (after reading HDS cont thread) that my little ideas have no basis in fact, because you guys in america are seeing the new episodes (Damn you…UK Sci-fi)and getting a clearer picture of what’s happening (I was basing my idea on season three), but it’s clear to me that I’m probably very wrong.
So I wish to retract all I said before as being total hogwash and sorry if I was trying to seem like I knew what was going too happen (I might have stood a chance if you US guys were also at the end of S3)
Anyways again, please disregard my theories, I will just have too wait until 2002 to form a theory, by then you would have seen all of S4, and probably wonder why the mad limey is going on about the first episode!!!, and the board may not even exist…again, damn you Sci-Fi UK.
God I hate this country (UK), could anyone give a mad limey a home in the states?, at least I’ll get to see Lexx S4 sooner…and I’m house broken I promise!!!
You lucky, lucky people.
Squishy——————
Squishy
quote:
Originally posted by Squish:
[b]Thanx Stans#1 fan, I’ve just realised (after reading HDS cont thread) that my little ideas have no basis in fact, because you guys in america are seeing the new episodes (Damn you…UK Sci-fi)and getting a clearer picture of what’s happening (I was basing my idea on season three), but it’s clear to me that I’m probably very wrong.
So I wish to retract all I said before as being total hogwash and sorry if I was trying to seem like I knew what was going too happen (I might have stood a chance if you US guys were also at the end of S3)
Anyways again, please disregard my theories, I will just have too wait until 2002 to form a theory, by then you would have seen all of S4, and probably wonder why the mad limey is going on about the first episode!!!,
[/b]
Bah, who needs facts it is after all just theory and conjecture.
Donot discount your ideas so soon and call them hogwash. I have been watching S4 and have seen no evidence that would disprove anything you (or I) have said [maybe with the exception of Princes mortality] then again nothing has been seen to prove it either.
I still think that there is (or will be) a Prince HDS connection. As to the how, when, what or where …well those questions I cannot answere.As for your Prince and anti-christ theory, I think you got that one pretty much right on, except that I think Price IS (or shortly will become) the anti-christ.
antiZero
.
quote:
Originally posted by antizero:
[b] Yeah, but is Prince still immortal in this season? His ‘soul’ and the evil that resides
there may be, but his physical body may not be. The bridge scene in TexxLexx with him and Stan is what I base that assumption on.
[/b]
Ok, well I guess P4X answered that question.
Prince is dead long live …erroops nevermind, long live Prince
[img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]antiZero
.
Bah, who needs facts it is after all just theory and conjecture.
Donot discount your ideas so soon and call them hogwash. I have been watching S4 and have seen no evidence that would disprove anything you (or I) have said [maybe with the exception of Princes mortality] then again nothing has been seen to prove it either.
I still think that there is (or will be) a Prince HDS connection. As to the how, when, what or where …well those questions I cannot answere.As for your Prince and anti-christ theory, I think you got that one pretty much right on, except that I think Price IS (or shortly will become) the anti-christ.
antiZero
Thanx AntiZero, it just seemed a little pointless trying to suggest something when I don’t know what’s going on.
I mean I could still be saying these things well into S4 and by then everything had been explained and end up feeling a little stupid cos I got it wrong.
After reading the HDS thread I realised that I didn’t want my views being laughed at like that Dalektek bloke, most were talking about ‘Texx Lexx’ and what went on in that episode, of course I was scratching my head and then realised they must be talking about an S4 episode.
Anyway I still do like the idea of the Prince and HDS connection, and you never know it might turn out to be true. I think a lot of us (me included) like to think that we can think like Mr Donovan and have a good idea of where he’s going with Lexx.
Probably a little bigheaded of me, but I sometimes try to work something out so I can convince myself that I’m clever.
I try not to take it too seriously, but I just can’t help myself, as I have been thinking of writing a short novel based around Lexx…as I love that big cuddly bug so much.
Squishy——————
Squishy
quote:
Originally posted by Squish:
[b]I think that HDS may have been the result of genetic manipulation on the part of Princes creation, as he looked to become more powerful than just a man, this could tie in nicely with a terrible future for mankind.
[/b]
I don’t see any reason to believe Prince engineered His Divine Shadow. He was an Insect, a warrior or else a worker. I believe the Insects evolved intelligence and essence-transference naturally, then used genetic engineering and nanotechnology to improve themselves. The hosts were all human. I don’t think Prince figures into the equation at all.
quote:
[b]HDS like Hitler obviously had a penchant for experimentation, it could mean that the insect wars were the results of experiments by the first HDS where he started turning men into insects, like himself.[/b]
I think it’s possible that His Shadow inadvertently began the Insect Wars (or the Great Insect War), I don’t see any indication of human-insect herrenvolk-type experiments. He would not’ve intentionally started the War, because the whole purpose of the Divine Order was to undo what the Insect Wars had done. After travelling back in time, he may have tried to [b]prevent[/b] the final Insect War from occuring, but it happens anyway in spite of (or perhaps [b]because[/b] of) his temporal meddling.
As for the Hitler connection: Ich verehren Seine Schatten! (I think that’s right [img]http://www.sadgeezer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] )
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Lee P. Sherman, code name DalekTek790
Whovian, Froudian, Lexxian, etc.Originally posted by Squish:
I think that HDS may have been the result of genetic manipulation on the part of Princes creation, as he looked to become more powerful than just a man, this could tie in nicely with a terrible future for mankind.——————————————————————————–
I don’t see any reason to believe Prince engineered His Divine Shadow. He was an Insect, a warrior or else a worker. I believe the Insects evolved intelligence and essence-transference naturally, then used genetic engineering and nanotechnology to improve themselves. The hosts were all human. I don’t think Prince figures into the equation at all.
*Squishy: I think a few people have mis-interpreted what I was trying to say.
I was suggesting that HDS shadow was the last of hundreds of reincarnations, and the only one to have insect essence, the previous reincarnations could have been Hitler and other tyrants…and they, essentially were the anti-christ in Earth’s history.
You could be right about the origins of the insects, but nobody can be sure, as there is not enough information to form an hypothesy.Where Prince comes in, is that he may have been responsible for the first reincarnation of the Anti-christ, but then had no involvement with the Anti-christ’s future reincarnations.
quote:
——————————————————————————–HDS like Hitler obviously had a penchant for experimentation, it could mean that the insect wars were the results of experiments by the first HDS where he started turning men into insects, like himself.
——————————————————————————–I think it’s possible that His Shadow inadvertently began the Insect Wars (or the Great Insect War), I don’t see any indication of human-insect herrenvolk-type experiments. He would not’ve intentionally started the War, because the whole purpose of the Divine Order was to undo what the Insect Wars had done. After travelling back in time, he may have tried to prevent the final Insect War from occuring, but it happens anyway in spite of (or perhaps because of) his temporal meddling
Sorry, what temporal meddling are you referring to?, my theme on genetic manipulation was to offer a suggestion on how HDS may have come about,so you are completely correct in saying that genetics may not have been used, but I’ve yet to see any pertinent explanation for the insect essence taking the body of a human.
I don’t understand your reasoning on HDS attempting to stop the insect wars, it seemed that HDS wanted mankind wiped out during this time, but the insect he was failed.
Then he somehow entered the body of a human,
and went on to trick the human race into believing that he had the best intentions for them…the truth was he needed humans to become host bodies up until the time of the Gigashadow.——————
SquishyI dunno about Prince being a possible anti-Christ (as in Revelations). My objection is that it would be a little too religious for Lexx. A battle between good and evil? In Lexx?
Although the first season kinda had that element.
Plus, the preview for the next Lexx implied that Prince might be killed.
Squish; I posted a summery of P4X in the episode forum.
Prince is not the Antichrist. Prince is the Devil. The Antichrist is the son of the Devil.
On a similar note, Kai may be some sort of a Christ figure. He was a revolutionary on his planet. He had a few followers, but his people did not understand him and sentanced him to death. He died for his cause, but was reanimated by a higher power. He descended into the underworld and returned. I think there are strong parallels. What does everyone else think?
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Lee P. Sherman, code name DalekTek790
Whovian, Froudian, Lexxian, etc.I think the whole thing thing has been loosely based around a battle between Good and Evil. And Lexx has never been scared to test the boundaries of religion or anything else for that matter, it takes a light hearted poke at almost everything.
The Kai being christ is an interesting idea and their are some similarities between Kai and Jesus, except Jesus didn’t kill mother’s with babies, politicians and philosophers, the intelligent or the beautiful when he was resurrected!!!
Doesn’t mean he didn’t want too though, he just didn’t have a brace handy at the time.
Squishy.——————
SquishyI dunno about Prince being a possible anti-Christ (as in Revelations). My objection is that it would be a little too religious for Lexx. A battle between good and evil? In Lexx?
Sorry Hypatia, maybe I wasn’t being very clear on Prince and the anti-christ.
I suggested that Prince may have created an Anti-christ as a partner (remember he thought Xev sufficiently evil to be his partner when he asked her to become his queen).
Prince remains the Devil, but has a right hand man who Prince showed how to be reincarnated, this person goes on to be the most famous tyrants in history and his final reincarnation is HDS.
Anyway it’s just my little story and it’s becoming more clear that this plotline probably won’t happen in Lexx.
Squishy——————
SquishyHypatia, just writing to say thanx for the update on Lexx S4X, it was very informative and useful, it certainly wetted my appetite for 2002.
Please keep em coming mate, at least I can join in with you guys on the chatboard when I’ve got some idea of what’s going down on the Lexx.
Thanx again,
Squishy——————
SquishyI didn’t know that the antichrist was supposed to be the son of the devil, thanks for the clarification.
That would be wierd enough for Lexx.
As for the Kai/Christ idea, the misunderstood rebel who returns from the dead is a very common story in western culture.
Kai, although he isn’t austral-b, is a lot like other famous heretics. Giardono Bruno, Hypatia of Alexandria, Galileo,etc.
“I think, Divine Shadow,I think”
quote:
Originally posted by DalekTek790:
[b]Prince is not the Antichrist. Prince is the Devil. The Antichrist is the son of the Devil.
[/b]
{{shakes head}}
I think you have every right to voice your opinion, but what I believe always gets you ‘picked on’ is that you state your opinions as fact.Please do tell me where in Christian, satanic, pagan, or any other doctrine does it say that the anti-christ is the son of the devil.
I suggest you (or anyone interested in the matter) go out and do some more research before making comments like the one above.
[url=http://www.harpazo.net/antichrist.html]http://www.harpazo.net/antichrist.html[/url]
has some fairly decent information from Christian doctrine.As for the Prince/anti-christ tie in, if Prince continues to put himself in a place of power, then I still think he is headed in the direction of the anti-christ sort of figure, again just pure speculation on my part.
antiZero
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[This message has been edited by antizero (edited July 31, 2001).]
I have never once stated an opinion of myself or anyone else as a fact. The Antichrist is the opposite of Christ, so he is a half-supernatural being born of a virgin. Only instead of God, the Antichrist’s father is the Devil (the Antideus).
This is not made perfectly clear in the written account of the Revelation, but is how Michael Nostradamus and an early Mediæval writer whose name escapes me describe the Second Coming, so it was general belief. Even modern religious figures hold this belief, so it is how the Bibical text is usually interpreted.
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Lee P. Sherman, code name DalekTek790
Whovian, Froudian, Lexxian, etc.Sorry DalekTek790, but I have to agree with Antizero, the way you write your posts come across as a very matter of fact.
I don’t think this is your intention, but unfortunately it sounds like you are right and everyone else is wrong in your opinion.
That I’m not writing this to slur you or comment on your character, I’ve found most of your posts intriguing, it’s just that some people are picking up on a sense of snobbery and a slightly arrogant tone from your part.
I’m not entiely sure about the whole anti-christ belief, I mean Hitler was described as an Anti-Christ and he had a normal mother and father (ok maybe not normal…but human, I always thought the anti-christ was just an emissary of the Devil and the Omen films just portrayed the son of the Devil aspect, and most people tend to watch films like this and believe it to be so…truth is I’m not sure.
Anyway DalekTek790, please don’t believe that what was said about you was meant to attack you…it wasn’t, I just thought a new perspective on your writing from a neutral might be helpful.
‘Don’t try to be great man, just be a man’
Zefram Cochrane.
Squishy——————
Squishy
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