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Awwwwww, Headge…. there was lots and lots more fun in that post but you locked it.
*pout*
We can’t ever have any fun being evil overlord censors if you keep locking the threads just when flaming is about to begin. 😛
Show of hands please…. who else was ready to jump on that thread and have a go at Maurice? 😉
Censorship:
Prevention of disturbing or painful thoughts or feelings from reaching consciousness except in a disguised form[quote=”Sexecutioner”]there’s nothing more I hate then censorship.[/quote]
Hmm. That’s funny I can think of a whole lot more other things.
Let see… Hate? War? Racism? Intolerance? Torture?
Would you want your 4 year old daughter to tune into the Disney Channel only to find pornography and violence?
A lot of things worse than censorship my friend. Keeping in mind that this is a Cult Science Fiction board, I wouldnt expect nor want to see the NRA wanting to talk about guns here everyday, would you? Yet all it takes is a couple of people to monopolize the entire board.
Without the ability to censor, there could be nothing like Sadgeezer.com. Instead the masses would dictate, and the masses don’t like Sci-Fi. That’s why “Cult” is a big part of our title. and I think we all can agree Super-Sized food and no-taxes might be fun for a bit, but ultimately it’s not a good thing. Which is why there are rules and moderation so popular opinion just doesn’t run rampant regardless of common sense.
There are even some people Voltaire would’ve slapped upside the head, hence our need for moderators.
I think what you probably meant was “There’s nothing more I hate than wanton censorship”?
Without it, who makes and enforces the rules? Or should we just let he who screams the loudest reign? We may as well head back up into the tree and have a good ol’ fashioned game of “catch that feces” while we wait for the biggest monkey on the block to take over if that’s the case.
It sure takes a lot to get moderated around here. We’ve only had 1-2 posters reach that dubious goal of the thousands registered. Pretty good percentages there. And while I could spend all day tearing up Maurices arguements with well defined logic, I have a life, and this is a Sci-Fi board. I do not have the time or inclination to spend hours a day arguing with psuedo-intellectuals and wannabe unemployed philosophers.
All or most of us come here to discuss Sci-Fi, we try and leave politics, war discussions, and obscene photography to the other 99.9999% of our lives while others want to continunally drag it here and change the entire premise of this site.
Sorry, thefrey, but I’m with LexxLurker on this one. As fond as I am of Maurice, I find that there is little point in engaging him in allegedly serious discussion.
LexxLurker, I think that your comments in general and as specifically applied to this site were very well put.
Very well expressed LexxLurker!
Just getting back to theFrey’s question (excuse the length):
I wanted to make some points before he was banned, but after he was banned there seemed little point as he wasn’t around to discuss them, or defend himself. However, since there’s a new thread on this I will make some points (such issues have always interested my feeble brain, and I apologise to FG or any others who may feel offended for any negative comments, I am trying to be constructive, but.. Did I mention my feeble brain?).
The board rule is “be excellent to eachother.” It was partially because Maurice was condescending and negative that he was banned. There was, of course, also the issue of blatant self-promotion, self-aggrandisement, and attention seeking — I know that many people tried their darnedest to ignore him, but that was difficult).
While he is an ex-sadgeezer who was not always most excellent, I still think as upstanding Sadgeezers that the spirit of “being excellent” should apply to him. So I think Headge made the right decision to lock the thread as it’s not altogether excellent to criticise [i]behind people’s backs[/i] so to speak (especially when they aren’t afforded the opportunity to respond at the venue).
Of course he’s had plenty of opportunity to make his case in the past; again and again and again (was always pushing his “issues”). Unfortunately, his position was intractable, so argument was fruitless/pointless, and sadgeezer membership complaints were unheeded by him — in fact he reveled in them. I often tried to seriously debate him, and most politely, but he refused to be reasoned with… I often felt he wasn’t even willing to consider other opinions, let alone respect differences. How much of it was an act, I don’t know.
Unlike most others I have mostly enjoyed his presence, and have very rarely been offended by him… The most I’ve done is roll my eyes, many times the argumnent he’s generated has made me smile. I rarely took him seriously.
I miss him for when he was thoughtful and interesting… When the Prisoner forum started he offered his support since we’re old “virtual” friends, and came up with some great discussion. He helped liven up the place. Unfortunately, I wasn’t always pleased with his contribution (could be downright disharmonious and he made my job difficult making it as happy a place for all as possible).
Also, a bit of controversy is good for a site and for the old noggin’, but when it’s just repetitive, well it gets boring. That’s Spam. And when it’s dismissive of others/condescending it’s worse
I understand the decision to ban him. It’s matter of being excellent to the sadgeezer community (the greater good and all that). I think the sadgeezer community were admirably tolerant/restrained up to this point considering what has been going on, but I will say that it was Fatguy’s posting here that spurred me on to join the board (and I seem to remember that he asked me to join here in a PM at lexx.com), so you can also blame him for that. Now with that info you can start getting really angry.
I’ll miss him here, but I can always visit his site (I am a member there though not much of a contributor)… I am sorry to see it came down to this, but in the long run I think it was unavoidable. Anyway, I don’t think Fatguy is sad about it, he considers being banned some sort of admirable achievement or something. Also, he has a mighty big soap-box at fortressoffreedom.com.
I wish him well, and will keep in touch with him.
Sexecutioner: I’m not totally opposed to censorship. There are many cases where it’s justified (and many where it’s not). You should find [url=http://www.sadgeezer.com/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=3932&start=0&sid=9c68816f76a1d246337e82d079080b93&POSTNUKESID=b887c1ae44bc5edf8eb47d015ddb47ff]THIS Thread[/url] enlightening. You will see that we don’t ignore these issues.
We are pretty much free to discuss anything as long as it’s in the right place, i.e not irrelevant to the topic or spammy, or abusive. Generally, you can say pretty much anything, what’s more important is how you say it…
Oh, and I censor myself all the time, it’s part of moderating yourself (and as a moderator I feel I must be extra careful with what I say — don’t want to come across as officious or obnoxious –unfortunately I can’t seem to avoid the obnoxious part 🙁 ).
Anyway, there are many places on the web to go, so one can say pretty much whatever one wants… One should feel free to make use of those venues… Good to choose suitable venues. I won’t discuss Little House on the Prairie here… much! And I won’t incessantly discuss LEXX at the Blossom fan site — wouldn’t be respectful.
Headge knows I was joshing him. 😀 Do I think we censor much? Nope, hense the evil overlord joke. Do I see the damage done by no moderatorship what so ever? Yep, everytime I log on to the scifi.com/lexx board.
Somewhere in between there has to be a happy medium. On one extreme, you have interesting people and discussions either fleeing or being hounded till there is no one left to care. On the other hand, you have no one who can post other than the party line. (Think the Roomba Yahoo Group)
But I do think a poster who goes out of their way to consistantly aggervate as many posters and moderators as possible knows that banning is coming down the pike. And since none of it took place in any of my forums…… what can I say…. it was time to tie up my pony-tail and get down to some serious scrapping. 😀 Ah well, headge knows he did right…. I just wanted to complain a bit about it. 🙂
The proof is in the pudding so to speak.
There may be a grand total of 2 or 3 people ever have had a post “censored”. And we do love a good arguement around here. We even come damn near blows when it comes to wether or not Xev or Zev is the real one! 😉
But we’ve spent far more time debating moderation than actually doing it because none of us ever wants to have to go that far. You can bring out all the “What ifs” and scenarios you want but the end result is you’ll be hard pressed to find a board like this, which keeps integrity of content while rarely to never having to play Sheriff.
And that just invites the few rare trolls who see this type of freedom to try and bend these rules as far as they can. A normal person, upon having 1 or 2 post moderated, might send a PM if they truly don’t understand, or they think about what they’ve done and stop it. Or at the very least try to understand why that type of content has absolutely no business here.
But not our Maurice. He is the proverbial “Camels nose in the tent”. Constantly testing both the patience and bounds of common decency on this site. Moreover it chases away those unlucky souls that happen upon our site for the very first time thinking perhaps they too have found a Sci-Fi haven. But instead are greeted with unimaginable images of death and slaughter all accompanied by: Come visit Fatguys Fortress of Solitude!
To be more concise, the entire point I’m making in the above post is that the content of this board and the content of what is moderated are two entirely different things.
When someone can point to a post that was deleted that was not a flame, not a troll, and on-topic I’ll be truly amazed and concerned.
There’s only one rule around here as far as I know: Be Excellent to each other.
It’s really not that hard…
But when one person tosses that rule out the window it becomes a simple matter of dragging others down to their level. Should we argue about it and start an open flame war? Or simply remove the offenders post. I choose to remove it in the case of the “Heroes” thread.
And it isn’t a matter of misunderstanding or context when it’s as continual as the rare cases of bannings around here. People have misunderstood my context quite often in the past, and stuffed words into my mouth. But regardless in many cases I have apologized and corrected my error. Because the end result is, I care about who reads this site, and I’d never intentionally chase anyone away. I want you to read this site, and I want to be bitched at, in a constructive way naturally.
And I’m about as mean as they come in the Moderator department compared to the almost angelic patience of the rest here at Sadgeezer.com
And I’ve moderated a grand total of 1 post in my years here. And in the 3+ years here I’ve only seen two or three people banned of the literally thousands of members we have.
But like me, others may lapse from time to time, just try and remember to re-read your posts and always keep that “edit” key handy for last minute changes in case you do hit that “SUBMIT” button. edit: (Like I’ve already done twice with this post) 😀
There is a difference between censorship and constantly cleaning up when someone thinks its funny to piss on your floor.
If the government came in and said you couldn’t piss on your own floor, that would be censorship. If I say you can’t piss on my floor, I don’t think that’s unreasonable.
Fatguy has never been able to tell the difference between his own floor and other people’s floors. He thinks he has the right to piss on anyone’s floor. I try to be polite about it, because maybe he just needs a case of Depends, but I know that eventually no matter how polite he is to me, he’s going to piss on the floor again, and personally I am getting sick of walking around it. He knows that. I’ve had that discussion with him before. Doesn’t change anything.
This place is a private club with an open membership owned by someone else and a little civility and decorum is to be expected. People who want to piss in public for the sake of pissing in public should go to Scifi.com-town. That’s what they do there.
[quote=”mok”]ZIIIIIIP! Sorry pet glad you explained that 😀 I’ll stick to my own floor in the future :wink:[/quote]
😆
I’ve been looking around and it just occurred to me this club has a pub but no restroom…. 😉
I happened to catch Fatguy’s post. It was condescending and patronising, as per usual. That in and of itself didn’t bother me. It was the fact that it was only the bizillionth time he’s hijacked a thread to start a political discussion or plug his website.
I have no problem with the fact that he obviously has no interest in discussing sci-fi. I’d have no problem with him discussing nothing but off-topic stuff if he could just confine it to the Pub. Or start a thread that says ‘O/T’. Or just not jump in the middle of established threads and refuse to let anyone discuss the subject at hand until he’s crammed his unrelated point down everyone’s throats and has gotten the requisite plug for his website in.
There was no reason why, if the notion of people discussing fictional heroes bothered him, that he couldn’t start a thread on real life heroes in the Pub. For that matter, he was given his very own thread to rant in. What more could you do to make him happy? Ultimately, the only thing you could do was either ban him or rename this board The Fortress of Freedom. 🙄
He was the message board equivelant of someone who won’t shut up and let you enjoy a movie. I, for one, am glad someone ushered him out.
No way! Fatguy got banned! Wow. Score one for sci-fi and high fives all around. And don’t worry, I’m not talking behind his back. I’ll laugh at his ass when he starts boasting at Lexx.com about how he was banned here. And we all know he will………he would be a lot more fun if he hadn’t become so predictable. And if he showed at least a minimal interest in sci-fi and/or The Lexx. Or anything, for that matter, save his precious Fortress. Give me unpredictability or give me death! Oh? Both? For me? Well…you shouldn’t have. Ho, ho, ho, ho, ho. Thank you Oh Great Cosmic Joker. I couldn’t possibly accept. No, no. You keep them. I don’t know what I was saying. Silly me.
you’re all wrong.
You people hear me, but you don’t listen.
It’s like 1984.
You were brain washed, by the evil american government, into banning the ‘defender of the free world’… ‘the bringer of hope’… ‘the light of reason and free thought’.
It was the FBI, CIA, MI6, MI5 and a few others.
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Jokes aside. I don’t think Fayguy is such a bad guy, it’s just that sometimes he floods the boards and argues for the sake of arguing.Still, you gotta abide by rules.
He had more than enough warning so his banning is totally fair and reasonable.
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Thats why I wait until I get home to pooh on my own floor. And when people ask what smells, I get to tell them that it’s because Im the Sh*t!
Yes, I have been drinking. Piss off. (Just not on the floor here)
😆[quote=”pet”]There is a difference between censorship and constantly cleaning up when someone thinks its funny to piss on your floor.
If the government came in and said you couldn’t piss on your own floor, that would be censorship. If I say you can’t piss on my floor, I don’t think that’s unreasonable.
Fatguy has never been able to tell the difference between his own floor and other people’s floors. He thinks he has the right to piss on anyone’s floor. I try to be polite about it, because maybe he just needs a case of Depends, but I know that eventually no matter how polite he is to me, he’s going to piss on the floor again, and personally I am getting sick of walking around it. He knows that. I’ve had that discussion with him before. Doesn’t change anything.
This place is a private club with an open membership owned by someone else and a little civility and decorum is to be expected. People who want to piss in public for the sake of pissing in public should go to Scifi.com-town. That’s what they do there.[/quote]
Good Heavens Pet. I do not think I have ever seen a better explanation of how this, or any other Private forum works.
Bravo, two thumbs way up for clarity!
I don’t think there’s a comment in this whole thread I’ve really disagreed with, but yes, Pet expressed that very well.
[quote=”Pet”]People who want to piss in public for the sake of pissing in public should go to Scifi.com-town.[/quote]
Or, as a Torontonian, [url=http://www.sadgeezer.com/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=172&mode=thread&order=1&thold=-1]UrineTown[/url]
By the way, I’m strangely reminded of the the rug incident in The Big Lebowski. 🙂
here’s an Alice Cooper song that sexpresses my feelings on censorship
[i]We the people of the United States
In order to form a more perfect union!…Stop pretending that youve never been bad
Your never wrong, and youve never been dirty
Your such a saint, that aint the way we see youYou want to rule us with an iron hand
You change the lyrics and become big brother
This aint Russia!, you aint my dad or mother (they never knew anyway!)Cuz I never walk away, from what I know is right
but I’m gonna turn my back on youFREEDOM!, were gonna ring the bell!
freedom to rock, freedom to talk!
FREEDOM!, raise your fist and yell!
FREEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOM!!!Your playing god from your ivory tower
Back off preacher!, I don’t care if its sunday
I aint no angel, but I’ve never felt better!Were a makeup wearing metal generation!
were not as stupid as you want to make us!
You better leave us man, cause you sure can’t take us!Nobody better tell you, how to live your life
You gotta do it on your own!FREEDOM!, were gonna ring the bell!
freedom to rock, freedom to talk
FREEDOM!, raise your fist and yell!
FREEEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOMM!!!
[/i][quote=”Sexecutioner”]here’s an Alice Cooper song that sexpresses my feelings on censorship[/quote]
I bet when you are a Dad you will be just as dogmatic about your kids following your rules as long as they are living in your house and leaching off your last dime. And when they do the “freedom chant” in protest you will threaten to put them into orbit. 😀
Well Fatguy’s posting brought Logan here. That is a good thing. Fatguy’s posting at Lexx.com also brought me here. That too is a good thing (in my opinion).
J_J, if you hate censorship so much, go and post in Fatguy’s forums. http://www.fortressoffreedom.com. (That is the first and last time that I will advertise his site). He has promised never to censor or moderate it. He even promised to make everybody who registered there an admin. He reneged on that promise of course, but he admires your style, so maybe he’ll make an exception. I think you’d make a great admin over there.
[quote=”KarubaLuna”][quote=”Sexecutioner”]here’s an Alice Cooper song that sexpresses my feelings on censorship[/quote]
I bet when you are a Dad you will be just as dogmatic about your kids following your rules as long as they are living in your house and leaching off your last dime. And when they do the “freedom chant” in protest you will threaten to put them into orbit. :D[/quote]
blak!!!, It will be a cold day in hell, when I have kids!
😮
You mean it’s safe to come back now?!?!?!
*SNIFF*
Yep, smells like the carpet’s been cleaned!!! 😀
MM
[quote=”lexxrobotech”]
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Jokes aside. I don’t think Fayguy is such a bad guy, it’s just that sometimes he floods the boards and argues for the sake of arguing.Still, you gotta abide by rules.
He had more than enough warning so his banning is totally fair and reasonable.
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[/quote]I don’t think he’s a bad guy either. It was a good idea for him to get his own space for renegade journalism, and I’m glad it attracted like-minded people and it grew so quickly. Since he got it he’s been more often polite to me than not, but who wants to be associated with someone who thinks its funny to repeatedly anger your friends, you know? That’s just not cool. He’s a smart guy, he knows that, but he’s an infector by nature so he just doesn’t care.
Listening to him rant about political freedom in the middle of threads about spaceships is kind of like watching someone stand up and talk about football during a church service. While people may be interested in talking about football in the parking lot or while watching a game, they don’t go to church to discuss it.
(I’m not interested in either, myself, but you see what I mean…. about the sacred turf that is sci-fi cult 😉 )
I can’t take credit for the “pissing on the floor” analogy. It’s an old expression applied to people who like to mark their territory by offending other people. We used to use it to describe an acquaintence who thought it was funny to break his beer bottles on the dance floor so the DJ would have to stop playing a song he didn’t like while someone turned on the lights and cleaned it up. I think I saw Nursewhen or Streudel use it once or twice, too, ’round these parts.
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[quote=”Micromary”]:o
You mean it’s safe to come back now?!?!?![/quote]
[size=18]Micro!!![/size]
Sweetie how ya been? We missed you. How is hubby Ed? Do sit down and stay a while.
Getting back on topic… I loved the idea of going and doing a Lexx hi-jacking all his threads on the FOF board. but I won’t, but temped? heck yes it was a truly tempting idea! 😀
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