2nd November 2004 at 7:53 pm #40231Alexzander2653Participant
I think even with her abomination Alia was a hero who helped to protect her family members who all ended up betray her or not helping her. I think alot of the people she killed would hav ebeen a danger later on. Her only violence was at the end when the Baron took over almost completely. I willl have mor epost about the betrayer of ALia. ALia a victim of betrayal, but a hero or a villian and a dictator? What do you think?2nd November 2004 at 8:31 pm #73192AnonymousGuest
Oh she’s definitely a dictator, but as for the whole Hero vs Villian?
It’s an excellent question, and much argued over. It’s a question that is relative to each reader, as well as relative to the factions within the series. More specifically, is it her fault? That’s the question I’ll answer, and although this is the way I see it today, I’ll probably change my mind another 50 times. 😛
As an Abomination, it’s not her fault, but her Mother. Ultimately what it comes down to, is the BG had the rules against Abomination for exactly this reason. So if they (BG) blame her for what she became, then it’s their fault for not killing her or Jessica earlier.
However as time went on, she betrayed everyone in one way or another. She ignored Pauls admonitions against allowing the voices to have control, she also ignored the admonitions against Spice Overdose. So in many ways she brought this upon herself.
After Pauls death (Pre-Preacher) however things get complicated. Jessica and Gurney both abandon her leaving Alia to rule Pauls Empire herself. She makes some bad decisions in that she grants the Quizerate far too much power and decision making (which Paul never allowed), mainly because she does not have Pauls oracular gifts. This drives her to take even more and more spice, and eventually loses all control over her Prime Conciousness allowing others to take control for periods of time.
The bottom line is Paul created the Empire through his doctrines. Paul and Alia became irrelevant even when Paul was alive, due to his Doctrines becoming the Peoples Law, and the People follow the Law, not Paul even if he decides later he was wrong. Because in their eyes Paul is nothing more than a symbol of the example he laid down. The irony to me, is that during all the talk of the Golden Path, humans have chosen their own Golden Path which is the antithesis of the real Golden Path. Confused yet? You will be!
So here you have Alia at the head of a Galactic Empire controlled entirely by what people interpet as Pauls religion. Not the truth, mind you, just the examples. And what was Pauls example? A Jihad that slaughtered billions upon billions under the banner of “Convert or Die!” Alia and Paul were very close to being Twins, and their thoughts were almost identical. So just as Paul knew the Religion had grown beyond his control, so did Alia. Paul however abandonded her too, and worse still? Paul understands the only way to destroy a faith is first toppling it’s figurehead. And he forced Alia to become that Figurehead. Which is why I thought the miniseries was so great when Paul apologized to Alia while condemning her.
Unfortunately Alia has that baggage that her Mother gave her. And she makes the Devils Bargain. She offers Baron Harkonnen control if he will make the other voices go away.
THIS IS WHERE THE BIG ARGUEMENT STARTS! hehe =)
Many claim she should’ve chosen to sacrifice herself here and now, and saved the lives of many people, including Paul/Preacher.
I disagree. Alia’s death would’ve plunged the Universe into a Doctrinal War during the Quizerates grab for power.
But did she make the sacrifices willingly? I’d say no. I wasn’t until all options had been exhausted and she faced her death one way or another, that she finally chose to kill herself. Yes, it is the ultimate sacrifice, but at that point: Did she really have a choice?
I think Alia is a tragic figure driven by necessity. She’s an example of a truly “Worse-case” scenario with the Spice. The next generation of Abomniations starts to get it right, and uses Alia as an example of WHAT NOT TO DO. Both Leto and Ghanima refused to take spice overdoses because of Alia’s example. They know they’re no stronger nor weaker than she is, and will suffer the exact same end.
She’s one of the better written characters in Sci-Fi history. Few fictional characters can produce the same arguements as their real-world counterparts.13th January 2005 at 9:42 am #73869MuadDibParticipant
Personally I think that Alia is in many ways a heroic villain (and yes I can here the groans from people who think I’ve side stepped the question), in many ways I think her only real mistake is listening to the baron. He’s Harkonnen (yes I know she technically is too) they’re renowned for treachery and betrayal, and to suddenly have one help the offspring of his most bitter enemy, Alia should have realised this was to good to be true.30th June 2005 at 8:37 am #75076MuadDibParticipant
As a further point to my earlier comment, I was rewatching Children of Dune last night and minutes before the “fat baron himself” reappears, Alia lectures Leto and Ghanima (about Jessica) that:
“Enemies often come disguised as Angels”
What does Harkonnen appear as … that’s right, an Angel! So Alia’s only crime is the crime of failing to learn her own lessons. Does this make her more or less of a villain? does it excuse her from what she does? will I ever fall asleep? We may never know![/quote]
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