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Bear with me for a moment while I kiss some Lexxian behind. In all my travels through the world of science fiction fandom, be it on the digital highways or through oral communication, I have never found so many pleasant people, as I did here on Sad Geezer’s (btw, nice site!) Lexx message board. In all honesty, I have never met sci-fi fans so courteous towards each other. Usually (specifically Star Wars and Star Trek) sci-fi fans are a bit rough, not only on the series, but each other. One of the many positive attributes to the Lexx series is the level of civility fans express towards each other.
I have never posted on this board before, but that’s because I rarely post anywhere. I became a Lexx fan over this last summer, and, as is my tradition, I see am right on time for the finale season (doh!). Originally, as seems typical to this series, I only caught a few episodes and wasn’t too impressed with the writing or the production (and just too confused!). Well, I can thank insomnia for the chance to get hooked. Sunday nights are probably the worst nights to get writer’s block. There is nothing on TV except at 2am a little sci-fi show from Canada popped on (see, there is a reason for that scheduling). I eventually got hooked, did some research, and realized what I had been missing (I love massive story arcs!). Needless to say, I’m not a Mr. Lexxian-Know-It-All, but I am learning.
Okay, blah blah blah. Here is what I am posting for: I want to know why YOU like what YOU like. There seems to be many “factions” in sci-fi fandom, and I want to know why. For instance, all of you like Lexx, but some of you absolutely hate Farscape (personally, I like both stories’ central plot, but tend to like or dislike each from episode to episode). I know that there is a split between Star Wars and Star Trek fans. Some Star Trek fans like some series, while they will hate others. Some people consider Farscape too much like a soap opera (certainly has progressed in the direction) while Lexx takes itself far less seriously, and thus concentrates on the situational humor and action. Yet, Farscape fans would say that its story lines pay more attention to character development (considered “high drama”
, while Lexx keeps its sights low on the action in order to fulfill the more basic needs of the viewer. The general media considers Lexx quirky and original, while being around Red Dwarf on the quality of production ladder. They also tend to think of Farscape as a combination between the best of Star Wars and Star Trek (what is “best” from those two stories is obviously subjective). Star Wars fans seem to think that the Star Trek universe is boring by comparison (the unique creatures Lucas’s boys and girls render, next to the “headsets” they use in Star Trek). Obviously, Star Trek and Farscape are meant to be a “possibility” of man’s future by injecting realistic science, while Lexx and Star Wars never really make attempts to justify why things the way they are (or at least they used to). Is it a regional thing? Obviously, placing an American at the center of Farscape was meant to attract more American fans than a foreigner would, but Lexx writers never had to ask the question (though, it is conventional wisdom that if you want someone good to play a dead person, you have to hire a Canadian, lol). Lexx, and Star Wars for that matter, seemed to have a much more “other-worldliness” added to it (besides the whole Sci-fi fantasy stuff) by the foreign actors. This is emphasized on an international level when you have an international cast. My question to you, Lexxians, is why do you want in your sci-fi? What do you like? Think about the differences in each of the shows currently on TV this season, and look closely at why you like one show over the other. Example: Compare the devastating power of the Lexx – the ship – to the vulnerability of Moya. This is an example for you guys to get a good look at just what type of viewer/fan you are, and for me to learn.
Why do I need to learn? Well, I’m writing two completely different science fiction stories right now, and I’d prefer to get feedback about other stories from people I’ve never met so that I do not repeat the same mistakes. Seeing as Lexx is a show that seems to go out of its way to be original, its best to look to its fans to find out what passes for original fiction. Thanks for your help.BTW, I’m new to these boards and the rules, so if the moderators want to boot this thread, I understand.
Hummmnnnn Farscape, why do I loathe thee? Well at first is was because the show takes itself way too seriously, even in it ‘lighter’ moments it is usually trying to convey some deep message. But since February, which is when I started watching Lexx, I loathe and despise it due to the basic unfairness of the SciFi Channel. I have heard over and over how great Farscape is and how well it is doing. Well let me tell you, even with virtually no promo’s or advertising Lexx is doing very well in the ratings. I get upset when I think about how many more viewers could be watching the show, if they knew it was on and if Lexx got one 10th of the breaks that Farscescape gets.
I am forced to watch Farsescape promo’s until my eyes bleed, and it gets to gather more viewers during re-runs at a normal time slot, while Lexx is shuffled off to 2 am Sunday mornings. I doubt very much if the ponderous writing and horrible visuals of Farscape could have gather much of an audience if they had been given the same cold should that SciFi gives Lexx.
What do I like about Lexx? The visuals are fantastic, even in it’s first season I was impressed by the imagination of the set design and the scope of what they were trying to achieve. I was immediately struck with the feeling that Star Wars had somehow been successfully translated to television. Also the casting has been excellent, with no jarring moments when I was forced to suspend disbelief and wonder ‘What possessed them to cast that person as that character.’
quote:
Originally posted by Holt:
BTW, I’m new to these boards and the rules, so if the moderators want to boot this thread, I understand.
welcome to the sadboard,holt! no rules here, just general mayhem all though you will see us slapping down rudeness
your questions are good ones, as for why i like lexx i am going to reprint a post from way back when on that topic:i agree the second season was pretty self-contained whereas the third season is integrated towards an ending…i also think the third season is more like what mm alluded to into the july chat when he talks about lexx not being as optimistic as americans generally like…if you look at the different stories there really are no redeeming qualities to most of the characters, they are unapologetically self-centered and the universe as a whole has nothing going for it, no aspirations to bettering mankind or any sort of noble star trek directives and that is what makes lexx a cult show rather than a mass appeal show…i’ll get off the soapbox now except for noting that it is the cynical outlook pimples and all of the human condition that makes lexx so funny…
hope that helps holt, i also like farscape, but less this season…and am an original stardrek fan from when it first aired
…star wars grew on me, but i found it a bit simplistic at first, and still do, but i love it nowWell, I think that Farscape has gotten to be unwatchable…it is sooo boring now! Some of the characters may look like aliens, but they have to act exactly like (overwrought) american high school students. There is no feeling there of an alien culture. Anyone or anything ugly is generally evil (even on star trek it sometimes happens that the ugly-scary creature turns out to be good).
One of the more endearing qualities of Lexx is that you can’t usually predict the whole of an episode after the first two minutes.
Great googely-moogely! An intelligent analysis of Lexx! Oh no! We’re made, man, we’re made! We gotta stop watching the show before it’s taken seriously and becomes a popular and widely-accepted science-fiction phenomena! Better yet, let’s lobby for it’s cancellation! That’ll keep those high-brow mucky-mucks off our backs! What’s that you say? It’s going to end with the forth season anyway? What a relief, we’re in the clear!
SERIOUSLY THO….
I agree with what theFrey said about the SciFi Channel’s marketing favoritism of Farscape over Lexx. It’s a crime that Lexx does not re-run at a normal time slot like Farscape.
I think that Farscape is not a bad show at all. The effects are fantastic and the stories are engaging. But if I blink (or someone in the room is talking while I’m trying to watch the show), then I’m completely lost and I have no idea what’s going on in the story. Keeping up with the ongoing story of Farscape requires more than a little effort.
LOL! Lizard got it right. The characters on Farscape do act like snot-nose American highschool students as seen in too many other shows. Very good point! I’ve been wondering for a long time why are the characters on Farscape argue all of the time? Is that the only way to advance character development? Aren’t there other ways of revealing depth of character or invoking drama?
I don’t think Star Wars is to Star Trek as Lexx is to Farscape. (Wasn’t that on an I.Q. test?) Lexx is more akin to Red Dwarf or Hitchhiker’s Guide or Doctor Who or maybe even a little bit of Space:1999. (My GOD! Those are all UK tv shows!) In what ways are they similar to Lexx? The Red Dwarf is a city-sized spaceship with a tiny crew and silly things happen to them. (Lexx is a city-sized ship with a tiny crew and silly things happen to them.) The TARDIS is one of the most powerful tools in the universe, bending time and space, controlled by an unlikely individual. (Lexx is the most powerful weapon in the two universes, captained by a nitwit.) The Hitchhiker’s Guide and Red Dwarf is filled with humor that has Earth-based subreferences. (Lexx visiting Lafftrak, the planet of television shows, is a really good example. Or how about Vrml, the planet of the inbred rednecks.) Space:1999 had those far-out aliens and science-fiction storylines that you couldn’t quite take seriously. (Lexx is filled with such aliens and situations, but there is no attempt to take itself seriously.)
I just can’t see much similarity bewteen Lexx and Star Wars. Thus I disagree with thefrey on this point.
FX really hit it on the nose. Lexx is certainly not optimistic and hero-centric as is REQUIRED of all American television. Although Farscape has a darker tone than usual, there’s still that gung-ho American guy who’s always trying to look on the bright side or do what’s right and just (the typical hero). Who’s the hero on Lexx? Not Stan because he didn’t bravely kill himself in order to save a hundred heretic worlds from the wrath of His Divine Shadow. Not Xev because she has no ambitions of glory or fighting bad guys. She just wants to get laid (which is also true of Stan). Kai is just plain dead. The dead are not heroes, as he might say. Maybe all three of them together act as one hero? With Lyekka and 790 helping out at different times, they all defeated His Divine Shadow, Mantrid, and Prince(?). Don’t forget that Thodin, the certifiable hero in the first Lexx movie, I Worship His Shadow, was killed by Kai! Some would argue that Kai is the ultimate tagic hero. The theft of the Lexx was not the goal of a great quest on the part of Stan, Zev (not to be confused with Xev), and Kai. It sort of “happened” and they’ve been dealing with it ever since.
I have no idea what the ratings have been for any show. All I know is that ratings have zero relevance when it comes to quality.
I’ll stop writing for now. If i think of other stuff, I’ll chime in again.
Visit my stupid webpage! http://www.flamegrape.com
Fan Groups
Star Wars: Jedi
The Dark Crystal: Froudian, Crystalhead
Star Trek: Trekkie, Trekker
Doctor Who: Whovian
The X-Files: X-Phile
Alien: Alienite, Spacejockey
Lexx: Lexxian
Red Dwarf: Dwarfer
Alien Nation: Newcomer
Babylon 5: Babylonian, B5er
The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy: Hitchhiker, Babelfish(Some fandom slang may vary based on region and message board)
As I’ve observed, there are two basic types of sci-fi fans: movie sci-fi fans and T.V. sci-fi fans. On message boards with Jedis, Froudians and Alienites there’s a lot more discussion of the little things. Details, symbolism, significance of certain dialog and elements, speculation, theoretical scenarios, minor characters, etc. That’s because movie sci-fi universes are much smaller as to what is established onscreen (8 hours of Star Wars vs. 500 hours of Doctor Who, for example). But on message boards with Trekkies, Whovians, and X-Philes it’s all “bigger” things, like story arcs, special effects, the last episode, what will happen next, who’s the coolest character, etc. So T.V. sci-fi fandom is more materialistic (is that the right word?), and concrete. With film fandom there are more theories (“How did the egg get on the Sulaco?” “what does ‘balance to the Force’ mean?” etc.). The only groups that have a lot of theories are X-Philes and Babylonians (before Babylon 5 ended). I’d have to say the biggest gulf between fans and non-fans is with The X-Files, where non-fans seem to think there’s this vast network of conspiracy plotlines only Chris Carter knows while people who’ve seen every mythological episode know a hell of a lot has been revealed over the years.
So where does Lexx fit in? Lexxians are both movie fans and T.V. fans. The movies of shows like Star Trek and Doctor Who are add-ons, small outgrowths of T.V. plots that often deal with elements peripheral to the series. Where with Lexx it’s the four movies (1.1 and 1.4 mainly) that built up the whole universe. Then there was the series, which wasn’t just add-ons but is very committed to the framework the movies laid out. So you get elements of both movie fandom and T.V. fandom in Lexx fan discussion.
That’s my two cents.
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“Exterminate!” -Dalek warrior, The Daleks: Episode 4-The Ambush
“Feel the power of the dark Crystal!” -skekTek the Scientist, The Dark Crystal
“I will love you forever!” -drone #790, Lexx 1.1: I Worship His Shadow
Hi Holt, nice to have you among us! Personally, I *love* to share my opinion, so I’m glad you asked.
Lexx: I love Lexx because it’s completely fresh and wickedly funny. It has none of the politically correct moralizing that seems to be the hallmark of successful series in the US these days, and it doesn’t take itself seriously. I love how Lexx irreverently satirizes anything and anyone. Since Lexx doesn’t take itself seriously, I can revel in the nihilism and chaos – it’s all in FUN! For example, I knew I was irrevocably hooked when, in IWHS, the cluster lizards were let loose on the children who were supposed to be getting medals of honor. You can’t do that! I was practically shrieking with laughter at the audacity! Lexxian humor sort of reminds me of Vonnegut – everything human is a target for lampooning.
Lexx’s characters are flawed – selfish, confused, cowardly, hungry,horny, unlucky – dangerous to themselves and anyone who crosses their paths. It’s a refreshing change from Star Trek’s utopia where everyone is happy, healthy, and well-adjusted. The stories barrel along with a raucous energy – like children joyfully thumbing their noses and blowing “raspberries” at everything grown-up. And it does this without resorting to slapstick. Plus, here’s the kicker: amidst all this mayhem, the members of the crew have moments of heroism, heartbreak, honor, hope – enough to make them lovable (to each other and to us) in spite of, well, everything. The dialogue between them is often side-splittingly funny and sometimes even touching. Xev’s character is something completely new, I think. She’s like the sex-kittenish female characters women my age grew up with (Catwoman, Wonder Woman, Jeannie, Ginger), but she’s none of those stereotypes. She’s a combination of innocent, devilish, adventurous, sexy, strong, sensitive, violent, victim and heroine, and more. Maybe the first truly multi-dimensional female character I’ve seen on TV. Stan’s character is also multidimensional – he’s a cowardly, whiny, selfish git, but he’s got a basically good heart (if you don’t expect too much), and he will surprise you sometimes. I like characters to encompass both dark and light qualities (sort of like real people, only… entertaining). And, of course, some of the performers in Lexx are simply beautiful – total eye candy!
Off the top of my head I can think of one other aspect of Lexx that makes it the best show I’ve ever seen: I am continuously surprised. The writers seem to have an infinite capacity to take these stories in directions no one else would ever have imagined. Unlike most other TV (and movies), I just can’t predict what will happen next – and I like it!
Overall Lexx has the qualities that I appreciate most for rolicking fun entertainment: irreverence, energy, action, adventure, dark humor, irony, satire, tongue-in-cheek “horror,” originality, sharp & witty dialogue, a gorgeous tragic hero, sex appeal (without soap opera), multi-dimensional characters, and all of it delivered with a grain of salt.
Farscape: I can’t watch it for as much as five minutes. From what I’ve seen, this show tries to be everything to everyone and ends up being nothing – to me. It’s got Muppets, but it takes itself way too seriously. I’ve never liked creature-features with goofy-looking critters, UNLESS the critters are MEANT to be satirical & silly. Visually, the characters I’ve seen look derivative, unoriginal (muppet and non-muppet). The overall plot sounds like a real snooze. I can’t say more, because, as I said, I’ve never watched for more than 5 minutes at a time – and I don’t intend to. SciFi has tried to cram Farscape down our throats at the expense of Lexx (a far better show), and that just p****es me off!
Star Trek (and it’s progeny): I grew up with Star Trek and loved it because there was nothing else like it. Spock was the freshest character on TV at the time. The show was hopeful, yes, but there was a dark edge and plenty of tongue-in-cheek humor. It was adventurous, but not afraid to be silly. Everything about the Trek universe was new, unexpected. Later, when the first motion picture was released, I was prepared for a bit of a nostalgic reunion with the old crew, then ready to move right along into some newer, edgier, higher-tech action. TNG: I had high hopes, but kept being disappointed by soap opera love stories & the like. By the time DS9, and later, (whatchamacallit?) came along, I would have needed something totally surprising to recapture my interest. Oh, there were new bad guys and so forth, but the same Federation formula applied to every situation. Q was a fun character, and the Ferengi were entertaining, but overall, I steadily lost interest. The later series’ lacked satire, irony, dark humor, irreverence, and originality.
Andromeda: I’ve watched it a few times and the jury is still out. The story is fairly heavy-handed – restoring the Commonwealth and all that jazz. It has some potentially interesting characters that are more than 1- or 2-dimensional. So far, one episode does not leave me hankering for more.
Help! I’m talking and I can’t shut up! Whew…I gotta stop now and lie down in the gutter for a while.
Wow, some great responses!
Okay, for those of you that have seen most of season 4, how does it make you feel that they have come to Earth to apparently end the story?(personally, living in Central Florida, I get a kick out of the fact that they blew up Orlando) Is there anything you don’t like about Lexx? Example: Personally, I find that some of the episodes are a little slow paced, but I’m an American, which means I need my entertainment directly injected into my brain?
What would you do to improve Farscape? A couple of you implied that, while they have alien characters, they are just “muppets” because they just put a mask over the human character beneath.
Here is my little take on all things sci-fi:
There is a theory running around that for fiction to qualify as “science-fiction” and not fantasy, you have to have some base in science-fact. Star Trek writers take this to the extreme, finding modern day definitions and theories, and applying them to future problems. Obviously, this story is looking at Earth in the distant future(duh). Writing with this in mind, though, limits the story to what people would consider possible(which usually happens to be what ever our scientists are currenty theorizing as possible). A tongue and cheek comedies series is far overdue. I think Star Trek is a scary position for a story line: its biggest asset and handicap is its immense history. Stories like Star Wars, Farscape, and Lexx has given themselves much more freedom by placing themselves in another universe. Farscape places a modern day, average American shmuck(being one, I have every right to call myself a shmuck)on the other side of the universe, which happense to be where everyone has been hanging out! I guess you could call Earth’s part of the galaxy the “boondocks.” Immmediately, our hero is put in a “stranger in a strange land” scenario. If anyone has had the pleasure of travelling to “distant lands,” they will surely know that learning the intricacies of the culture is the only safe way to avoid being ostracized. This has always provided for interesting television. Once Farscape lost that theme, and the hero became more comfortable, they gave us a cliche story line. At this point, it depends on how interesting they came make the episodes. In the end, Farscape is a very nicely repackaged “Lost in Space” type of series. Its very apparent that everyone involved puts in a lot of hard work, but do you think we will all be sad when the main character finely makes it home? I’m not going to get into the whole deal about why Farscape gets so much help from the Sci-Fi channel. Basically it comes down to the complex issues mass media have been facing lately. Namely, a lot of conservative groups accusing media organisations of marketing adult oriented content towards children. One can argue that Lexx in not intended for children, so it gets put by the way side, while the sci-fi channel probably feels that it can attract a larger audience for them(it all comes down to money!).
Star Wars is Star Wars and there have been enough words written about it to fill NASA’s libraries. I do feel that it has the same problems as Star Trek, that its history both hurts and helps the current storylines. Its also odd that Lucas has decided to scientifically explain everything previously defined as mystical.
I feel that Lexx is attractive the sci-fi fan because it(1) combines several genres and elements of modern fiction, (2) uses creative and color sets and characters, and (3) makes practical applications out of abstract ideas(like the looping of time). The hardest element of Lexx is its story line. It took me quiet a while to fully understand what was going on. For instance, I had never known the importance of Kai’s war chant until I watched recent reruns of seasons 2.I want to thank everyone for their replies.
BTW, does anyone see the similarities between the character functions of Kai and Spock?
I have to agree with the comment above about the ads for Farscape. I’ve watched the show since the beginning, but there’s only so much ‘serious’ sci-fi I can take.
Why is Lexx so great? Its funny, quirky, sexy. . . ah the hell with it I can’t explain it, its just great.
Ever since my first ep. I’ve loved the universe and the fact that you never know what to expect.
On Farscape. . . I’ve enjoyed it (aside from almost the entire 2nd Season), but the best episodes are the ones where the writers must have been on acid when they wrote it. Come to think about it, the best eps are the ones most like Lexx. Oh well, so much for that.
To fix Farscape. . . Well, first have the Pk’s and Skarens kill each other. But the essence of one survives and enters the body of and almost bodyless man who I will call “Mantrid”
,have “Mantrid” start destroying the Universe. Then give Moya a big weapon to blow up planets. Next, kill off all but three and a half of the main characters. . . . Well, I like Lexx because it is like nothing else. It’s realistic (yes, a 2008 year old dead man and a woman who’s half alian lizard on a huge organic spaceship with a lovelorn decapitated robot is realistic)
. The characters and the situations they end up in are true to the way humans act and feel. Well maybe not Kai.
But from the vengefull Jihana (Stan’s trial) to the clueless kids in ‘Wake the dead’ this is how people act, only skewed and stretched beyond reality. Alright, now I’m babbling.
Reason I started watching Lexx was Xev, she’s such an interesting character. Then there was the humaor, the sex, the adventure, the certain indefinable ineffable Lexxy quality that Lexx has
.Theres also the equality of it, the hero is dead, the captain isn’t a hero, the babe can’t get laid and has been rejected for being ugly!The democracy of Lexx, no one person makes all the decisions, it’s balanced.
I don’t like Farscape much either, 1; I’m jeolous scifi promotes it and hardly promotes Lexx, but even before Lexx I found the man ugly and annoyingly macho, the woman in black caricitured, same with the blue woman. The blue woman was also annoying. Farscape isn’t as unique or imaginative as Lexx.
Before you ask me what I’ve been smoking (“Lexx? Realistic? What??) I will take my leave and leave you to sort out my babble. Welcome to the sadboard.
quote:
Originally posted by Hypatia:
I don’t like Farscape much either, 1; I’m jeolous scifi promotes it and hardly promotes Lexx, but even before Lexx I found the man ugly and annoyingly macho, the woman in black caricitured, same with the blue woman. The blue woman was also annoying. Farscape isn’t as unique or imaginative as Lexx.
That’s a good way of putting it. John Chrichton is no average schmuck by the way, Stanley Tweedle is. A lot of women consider Ben Browder a hunk and the dude isn’t Xactly a light weight either. On the show he’s a test pilot and a physicist. His crazy brazen American Earth guy antics always save the day, he’s never fooled by the bad guys.. blah blah.. what everyone else said..
One thing about Farscape’s superiror effects.. bleh!.. Sure nice space effects but it cuts right from those to stuffy closed off interiors that look like cheap sets, it could be a separate movie for all we know the way the establishing shots are cut.
One of the many things I like about LEXX that really reminds me of the new Star Wars films.. is that they incorporate a lot of CGI/green screen with the sets which really “opens” things up, and there’s a real interaction between the CGI stuff and real stuff as opposed to Farscape where those amazing visuals are just used used as snazzy establishing shots for some crappy claustrophobic looking cheesey set, in which there is no connection between the live and CGI elements.
What hasn’t been said about FS is that everytime I watch it, it seems like they are ripping off other SciFi, like the Road Warrior meets Predator episode where John dies.. it’s okay.. they had a spare *sigh
Skeksies anyone? Or like season 2 seemed to really suffer from “Ben Browder Showcase”. Where each new ep was an opportunity for Ben to show us he can do more than one accent and play the other characters better than the real actors can and even play different versions of himself.Not to mention.. there has been “far”
more seX on Farscape in any one given season than there has been durring LEXX’s whole run.That oughtta do it for now
[ 02-10-2001: Message edited by: X ]
I’m looking more into the story lines and aesthetic virtues of each series that appeal to you. For instance, everyone seems to enjoy the CG effects of Farscape, while they prefer the sets, props, and locations of Lexx. The acting ability of one actor over the other is not as important as the writing. Besides(and I’m not directing this comment at anyone specific) science fiction has not been known for long list of incredible actors.
As for the actual writing involved on all current story lines, that is a much more interesting discussion. One good point brought up is the way Ben Browder’s character is written. It is a definently more of a G.I. Joe figure than the scientists he’s supposed to be. Then again, if you are a producer who is trying to get good prime time ratings in the states, you give your audience a characters they can associate with on some self assuring level. Americans, for the most part, like to think of themselves as Crichton/Harry Callaghan/The Guy From Die Hard: A working class hero, who loves his friends and family, would proudly die for a good cause, always makes the honorable decision, hates “evil,” and only has enough flaws to make him feel human. And to compliment Ben Browder’s character is basically your typical “ship of fools” roster. Everyone fills a role. That’s why they each seem like archetypes(because they are!). Its easy to write(partially because it has been done before) and its easy to follow, which is probably why Sci-Fi channel’s programming directors love it so much. And, of course, Scorpius is just your run of the mill villain, who might as well have a long black mustache to twiddle. Okay, I’ll shut up. Just wanted to direct the discussion a little more.
BTW, X, wonderful comment about green screen usage in Lexx. Farscape’s claustrophobic setting is more applicable to a thiller sci-fi, like the orininal Alien movie, rather than an adventure story. I too believe that its a budget issue, but I once saw an interview with Browder where he said they use the same facilities as LucasFilm. Ironic, considering your comment! It could also be simple logistics problem. Maybe they don’t have the time? Either way, they really miss out on what Lexx is able to benefit from the green screens.
And remember, its not the amount of nookie going on, its the context of said nookie.
quote:
Originally posted by Holt:
Wow, some great responses!BTW, does anyone see the similarities between the character functions of Kai and Spock?
lexxian faux pas!
we all do, but apparently it ****es the hell out of mcmanus to have his character compared to spock…so i’ll temper it by saying spock mixed with the ghola duncan idaho 
on the other issues, i’ll just mention that since there are a limited number of plots, it is how one gets from point a to point b that sets that version of the plot above the other tellings of the same plot…farscape’s premise originally had some interesting quirks,like lexx, they had a being that was derived from plants rather than animals, except that zhaan was actually a member of an entire culture with her own values and history, whereas lyekka is only an intermittent character with no real background , she’s just there to help the story along…this is appropriate as farscape is ‘space opera’ a la star trek whereas lexx is avoiding all that baggage. We really don’t know anything about anyone except kai, and precious little about him…we just want to see how the crew gets in and out of their situations, and we realize as we sit on the couch feeding our little bloated bodies chips and beer that we are a lot more like stan then john chrichton… Looking at john chrichton, yeah, it’s great to be a hero, although frequently he is the bumbling human way out of his weight range in the universe… even though he is a product of nasa, and all the petty bureaucratic wrangles and politics of that particular institution he is ‘noble’…well now, what is more realistic? all of us who have dealt with the government are probably of the mind that it’s actually more like kai sitting tied up in a chair getting his brain chewed on by various annoying officials and saying ‘it’s been a long time since i’ve killed a roomful of petty bureaucrats’…so i guess lexx is more realistic in the sense that they at least voice the fantasies of what we would really like to do in certain situations, whereas john and crew are our fantasies of how we wish we would react to certain situations if we had wonderful buff bodies and big guns
…i guess that makes me more of a harlan ellison and kurt vonnegut scifi fan than an isaac asimov type, but i still foray into bradbury and frank herbert too[ 02-10-2001: Message edited by: FX ]
quote:
Originally posted by Holt:
Okay, for those of you that have seen most of season 4, how does it make you feel that they have come to Earth to apparently end the story?(personally, living in Central Florida, I get a kick out of the fact that they blew up Orlando) Is there anything you don’t like about Lexx? Example: Personally, I find that some of the episodes are a little slow paced, but I’m an American, which means I need my entertainment directly injected into my brain?
Yes, we Americans have established a bad speed-freak habit when it comes to pacing in television and movies. It has resulted in a generation afflicted with ADHD. There is no way that I can get anyone my age (or younger) to sit through Andrei Tarkovsky’s Solaris without them falling asleep or complaining of bordrome. It’ll take John Cameron’s over-the-top remake to get any young american even remotely aware of the storyline. But do you think the theme of self-examination, guilt, or concience will still exist in the remake? Hell no! The planet Solaris will probably be filled with monsters of the imagination come to life or some such dreck! Mark my words.
quote:
Originally posted by Holt:
What would you do to improve Farscape?
You’re a writer for Farscape, aren’t you?
I have nothing to add about improving that show. It seems to be doing just fine and will forever live in re-runs. *yawn*quote:
Originally posted by Hypatia:
Well, I like Lexx because it is like nothing else. It’s realistic (yes, a 2008 year old dead man and a woman who’s half alian lizard on a huge organic spaceship with a lovelorn decapitated robot is realistic)
I politely disagree. But I like Lexx because I think it is NOT realistic. It has an air of Flash Gordon or Barbarella. It isn’t bogged down with techno-babble jargon like Star Trek. The machine (or whatever in question) works or it doesn’t, who cares how. And the task of explaining all the technical details is relegated to a decapitated robot. Very fitting!
quote:
Originally posted by Holt:
The acting ability of one actor over the other is not as important as the writing.
The dominant power of writers makes shows like Lexx and Mystery Science Theater 3000 so good.
quote:
Originally posted by Holt:
Besides(and I’m not directing this comment at anyone specific) science fiction has not been known for long list of incredible actors.
JOHN AGAR!
quote:
Originally posted by Holt:
As for the actual writing involved on all current story lines, that is a much more interesting discussion. One good point brought up is the way Ben Browder’s character is written. It is a definently more of a G.I. Joe figure than the scientists he’s supposed to be. Then again, if you are a producer who is trying to get good prime time ratings in the states, you give your audience a characters they can associate with on some self assuring level. Americans, for the most part, like to think of themselves as Crichton/Harry Callaghan/The Guy From Die Hard: A working class hero, who loves his friends and family, would proudly die for a good cause, always makes the honorable decision, hates “evil,” and only has enough flaws to make him feel human. And to compliment Ben Browder’s character is basically your typical “ship of fools” roster. Everyone fills a role. That’s why they each seem like archetypes(because they are!). Its easy to write(partially because it has been done before) and its easy to follow, which is probably why Sci-Fi channel’s programming directors love it so much. And, of course, Scorpius is just your run of the mill villain, who might as well have a long black mustache to twiddle. Okay, I’ll shut up. Just wanted to direct the discussion a little more.
Yuck! That’s what I really hate about most of popular television and movies. That damned formula! It has been lectured to me in film history classes that it’s all the same story, retold again and again in different ways. (c.f. Joseph Campbell) That’s the only way to make the best stories? That only sets limits, not open doors. It’s conceivable that our intelligence and imagination can evolve beyond such conventional barriers. Hero defeats foe. Big deal. What’s the point of retelling the same story over and over again? This is one big thing that prevented me from becoming a writer myself. I had this realization that if my stories were to sell, then I’d have to follow this damned formula.
quote:
Originally posted by FX:
lexxian faux pas! we all do, but apparently it ****es the hell out of mcmanus to have his character compared to spock…so i’ll temper it by saying spock mixed with the ghola duncan idaho
How much you wanna bet that the production of the second SciFi Channel Dune movie will be put on hold for politically correct reasons?
Political Correctness! That’s one thing that could be improved about Farscape! Get rid of that “working class hero, who loves his friends and family, would proudly die for a good cause, always makes the honorable decision, hates “evil,” and only has enough flaws to make him feel human” mentality. It’s like the big thing I dislike about Star Trek, the morality being shoved down my throat! If you wanna talk politics, that’s the big thing that makes most of humanity miserable!
Has anyone noticed how much Lexx has been lampooning american culture, especially during the 4th season? I think it’s great! (I’m a United States citizen.) It’s about damned time, too! I seldom, if ever, get to see outside views of the United States. All around me, I witness unreasonable patriotism and… oh, hell I won’t even bother. (Yes, really bad things have happened recently and I support my president totally. That’s another issue.)
A couple of people who just wanna get laid, a dead guy, and robot head, all riding around in a bug bug. Now that’s my absurdist cup of tea. Stan had it right from the beginning, “I know my bad planets and that [points at Earth] is a bad planet!”
[ 02-10-2001: Message edited by: Flamegrape ]
quote:
Originally posted by Holt:
BTW, does anyone see the similarities between the character functions of Kai and Spock?
Yes! I was the one who wrote the “Lexx Trek” piece under “Star Trek: Enterprise” (“I’m very good with the Prime Directive”
). Actually, Kai is more of a Data ripoff, but Data is a Spock rehash. Lexx is the best ever Star Trek ripoff.quote:
Originally posted by Flamegrape:
Yes, we Americans have established a bad speed-freak habit when it comes to pacing in television and movies. It has resulted in a generation afflicted with ADHD. There is no way that I can get anyone my age (or younger) to sit through Andrei Tarkovsky’s Solaris without them falling asleep or complaining of bordrome. It’ll take John Cameron’s over-the-top remake to get any young american even remotely aware of the storyline. But do you think the theme of self-examination, guilt, or concience will still exist in the remake? Hell no!
I thought Steven Soderbergh was doing the remake. If so, I’m not expecting it to turn out to be a great piece of art (though Soderbergh has it in him to make one), but it surely wouldn’t turn out as badly as it would if James Cameron lay his twisted paws on it. Sure, he can deliver things blowing up really nicely, and big spectacles, but he can’t tell a story without resorting to big Crayola strokes to save his life. Unless he’s ripping off Harlan Ellison, that is.
quote
I politely disagree. But I like Lexx because I think it is NOT realistic. It has an air of Flash Gordon or Barbarella. It isn’t bogged down with techno-babble jargon like Star Trek. The machine (or whatever in question) works or it doesn’t, who cares how. And the task of explaining all the technical details is relegated to a decapitated robot. Very fitting!
I’d have to disagree with your disagreement. One of the many things I appreciate about LEXX is what would loosely be called “realism.” The show isn’t bogged down in technobabble because no one on the show (besides 790, who doesn’t *care*) knows how any of this stuff works. They can’t go spouting off scientific jargon because they don’t know any. Stan reacts to most situations in a manner that befits a “joe average.” He’s frightened, he’s driven by self-preservation and self-interests, and he clings to whatever he can so that he can feel like he’s in control of the situation (his hat, his position as captain, etc.). Xev acts in a realistic manner as well, though she is explicitly relegated to “fantasy female.” She’s multi-faceted and she’s more than what her looks and her designation (love slave) would lead you to believe about her. Kai is extremely literal, and oft-times maddening. Which is pretty much how I’d expect a living dead guy to be.
quote
What’s the point of retelling the same story over and over again? This is one big thing that prevented me from becoming a writer myself. I had this realization that if my stories were to sell, then I’d have to follow this damned formula.
Sad but true. The most successful works of fiction (stage, screen, TV, page) adhere to a set of stock stories, and are only original in the way that they work within the conventions. Which is why a show like LEXX is destined to be always regarded as a “cult classic.” The show deviates from the formula at any given moment. The heroes don’t act like heroes, when they do succeed (killing HDS, destroying Mantrid, blowing up Fire) they often create even worse problems (Mantrid is created, a universe is destroyed, Prince comes to Earth), etc. Also, as has been mentioned, the show is just *WAY* too nihilistic to go over with the public, who like their happy endings and clearly-defined heroes. Our heroes do bad things, generally go unpunished for them, and cause bad things to happen to other people. Entire planets are destroyed as punchlines and people are offed left and right. And there’s sex. Not sex born of love, but sex born of pleasure and desire (not that there’s anything wrong with that). Stan and Xev aren’t looking for people to settle down with, they’re looking for places to settle down that have a plethora of hot bods. It’s this flying in the face of what some, if not many, consider “good” that hinders LEXX from reaching a mass audience. And it’s the masses’ loss.
–Aleck
“I don’t know art, but I know what I like!”
Personally, that quote sums it up for me. I probably could come up with pages and pages for why I like what I like, and it’s a lot
Course, my stuff falls in the science fiction and fantasy arena. It may be sad, but I liked the cookie cutter scifi shows (All the Star Trek, seaQuest, Farscape, Buck Rogers, Babylon5, Voyagers, Quantum Leap, Time Trax, The Powers of Matthew Starr, Misfits of Science, Automan, Fantastic Journey… blah blah blah, the list goes on and on) and I also like the original stuff. Heck, I even liked Dune the 3rd time I watched it! (First two times, I was bored
)
I like Buffy the Vampire Slauyer, Angel, Roswell, 7 days, The Sentinel, The Pretender (tho that isn’t *really* scifi), Red Dwarf, and so many others that I’m bound to forget something along the way..Why do I enjoy them? Eh, who knows? They entertain me, that’s all I know. Maybe it is the cute guys
What can I say? I like escapism. Flashy effects and good looking people get me hooked but the story lines real me in. Course, I also entertain easily So, I can’t really tell you why I like what I like, I just do (“How come apple jacks don’t taste like apples?”).
As for what I don’t like… I *really* didn’t like Black Scorpion. It just gave me bad vibes.
Ok, I’m sure I wrote a lot here and actually said nothing. So I’m going to stop now.
K, bye.
Fantasmaquote:
Originally posted by Aleck:
I’d have to disagree with your disagreement. One of the many things I appreciate about LEXX is what would loosely be called “realism.” The show isn’t bogged down in technobabble because no one on the show (besides 790, who doesn’t *care*) knows how any of this stuff works. They can’t go spouting off scientific jargon because they don’t know any. Stan reacts to most situations in a manner that befits a “joe average.” He’s frightened, he’s driven by self-preservation and self-interests, and he clings to whatever he can so that he can feel like he’s in control of the situation (his hat, his position as captain, etc.). Xev acts in a realistic manner as well, though she is explicitly relegated to “fantasy female.” She’s multi-faceted and she’s more than what her looks and her designation (love slave) would lead you to believe about her. Kai is extremely literal, and oft-times maddening. Which is pretty much how I’d expect a living dead guy to be.
I see your point. I suppose I’m too rigid with my definition of “realistic” science-fiction. I believe that 2001: A Space Odessy is the most realistic science-fiction story ever put on screen. What’s unrealistic about Lexx? I guess that’s a good subject for another thread!
quote:
Originally posted by DalekTek790:
Yes! I was the one who wrote the “Lexx Trek” piece under “Star Trek: Enterprise” (“I’m very good with the Prime Directive” ). Actually, Kai is more of a Data ripoff, but Data is a Spock rehash. Lexx is the best ever Star Trek ripoff.
HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA! Here we go again!
PICARD
Geordi, can you use the Enterprise to see if there are any beautiful women on that planet below us?GEORDI
(eye visor lights up with pulsating cartoon hearts)
Yes, but only if my beloved golden-skinned android adonis wants me to!PICARD
(sighs)
Data, will you tell Geordi to use the Enterprise to scan for beautiful… busty…
(gesticulates obscenely)DATA
(grim and deadpan)
Geordi, please use the Enterprise to look for women on the planet we are orbiting.GEORDI
Anything for you, my hard-wired honey!(PICARD paces floor of bridge impatiently.)
TROI
Cheer up, Picard! We’ll find a woman just for you! All I know is that it isn’t me!GEORDI
Bad news, my electric lover. There’s only a bunch of scientists working on some boring physics experiments.PICARD
All right! I’ve had enough! Enterprise!ENTERPRISE
Yes, “Picard, Picard, and only Picard”?PICARD
Blow up that stupid planet with the stupid scientists!ENTERPRISE
As you command, Captain. Can I eat the chunks?Oh brother.
A timeless classic, FlameGrape!!
quote:
Originally posted by DalekTek790:
That’s still not funny, Flamegrape.
i can’t tell you how much it cheers me that you still have the time to be unpleasant and disagreeable
Are you kidding me? LEXX is filled with great actors and the most wonderful guest appearances. Nigel Bennett, Walter Borden.. a bunch of other people I recognize but cannot name (help me Aleck-Wan you’re my only hope).. Malcolm McDowell. Most British SciFi has is filled with great actors even if the scripts suck.
Ya, know Dr.Who has had some really miserable writing on it in the past but the actors were able to sell it and LEXX has actors that can sell the show, baby!! even on the not so great eps.
I love LEXX for the same reason I love Power Puff Girls and Red Dwarf.. witty very funny sophisticated and unsophisticated satire, believable fallible characters that behave in ways not unlike real people, and all the fantasy stuff I like that helps me forget about my crappy albeit unboring life.
Going back to the shows effects.. they were using techniques way back in 95′ while filming the LEXX movies that George Lucas later used in the Star Wars special editions and Phantom Menace, I refer again to the digital sets. Also LEXX does some really bold CGI, there aren’t too many repeating effects on LEXX either, I know there are some but not as like Star Trek where every episode re-uses the same sequences over and over again. Although Voyager was a little better about avoiding that. LEXX has always been very ground breaking if you ask me. They try things that you would normally only see in movies. The production value is very high and very high concept for each episode. Especially with season 4 they are really pushing the envelope. I didn’t Xpect as much CGI thinking that they would just use real locations and sets, this is the most CGI I’ve ever seen on the show, and it adds a very likable surreal effect.
Well, I was gonna keep it short and sweet.. too late I guess
quote:
Originally posted by X:
Are you kidding me? LEXX is filled with great actors and the most wonderful guest appearances. Nigel Bennett, Walter Borden.. a bunch of other people I recognize but cannot name (help me Aleck-Wan you’re my only hope).. Malcolm McDowell. Most British SciFi has is filled with great actors even if the scripts suck.
Got ya back, X. Maury Chaykin, who has done some excellent character work in films like Dances With Wolves (he was the officer that sends Costner out at the beginning and then kills himself), Mystery, Alaska (not a great movie, but good enough, and Chaykin gives a great perf), and others played Pa in “White Trash.” Rutger Hauer (The Hitcher, Blade Runner, etc.) was in Eating Pattern. Barry Bostwick, star of stage, screen, Rocky Horror, Spin City and the former King of All TV Mini-Series was Thodin in I Worship His Shadow. Tim Curry, ham extraordinaire, best known as Frank N. Furter from Rocky Horror was Poet Man in SuperNova. Let’s not forget the cast themselves, though. Nigel Bennett won the Gemini Award for his role as Lucien LaCroix (I think that’s the name) on Forever Knight, McManus won the Genie for his role in Speaking Parts, and Xenia has trained at the Actors’ Studio in NY and at the Lee Strasberg Institute for Dramatic Arts in NY and LA.
–Aleck
My intro into sci-fi came in the early 60’s
with HP Lovecraft and Isaac Asimov…people
who took their writing seriously, but at the
time were labeled ‘edgy’, and that’s why I’ve
been drawn to this show. The other shows are
all right for entertainment purposes, I liked
Star Trek when it first came out, and the first couple of Star Wars movies, but I wasn’t radically fanatical about them, don’t
know why really, they just didn’t blow my
skirt up for some reason. I got hooked on
Clive Barker and Steven R. Donaldson, people
who wrote about characters that had major
flaws, but still managed to overcome them
occasionally..real people, not superheros..
My fave sci-fi show before this was Blake’s
7, and there are many parallels with this
show, and some of the Red Dwarf episodes, even if the production on both of those was
pretty low.
Farscape has a great look and feel, but it’s
too commercial for me, I prefer stories that
aren’t really for everyone..and the writers
of this series, (either accidentally or with
great genius) have managed to convey the
duality of man and nature and the universe
in a few short hours that this show has been
on the air. Kai’s story is the main story,
when history has been explained later, he
could be seen as the ultimate saviour or the
ultimate destroyer, since his actions set
in motion all that has happened up to now.
Xev’s story is no less important in that she
has been the driving force behind Kai, even
though it’s not entirely evident in every
episode. In the first 4 movies, Zev’s strength surpasses that of Kai’s in order to
make him fulfill his destiny. Without her
character, there would be no Kai..
Stanley’s persona echoes almost every human
on the planet, the drive for self-preservation versus the ‘right thing to
do’ ( and who really knows what that is until
you see it in retrospect?). He has come a
long way, but the jokes about Stan only
wanting sex is just a smokescreen, he really
wants love, but probably has never experienced it and doesn’t know there’s a
difference. There are millions of people like
Stan out there, and they’re not superheros,
but can accomplish amazing things by sheer
determination. As for 790, he’s basically
the devil’s advocate in the series, sometimes
good, sometimes evil, but hampered by his
love-slave programming to such a degree that
he can be somewhat useless in a crisis..
All in all, the characters mesh so well, that
it ‘s difficult to concieve of one without
the other, and I for one will be heartbroken
when this amazing series goes off the air.
I doubt we will see the level of acting again
on television, since everything is geared for
“Ad Dollars”, and Lexx certainly not what
you’d call, and Ad Man’s Dream (or wet dream,
for that matter).
I watched Solaris and wasn’t bored (it was too confusing to be boring!).
Oh yeah, the way they make fun of America is priceless! The alligator pit! Oh, funny. And I could swear that the first episode was a poke at the recent election fiasco.
What I meant about Lexx being realistic is that it’s characters are human, I can’t say this right but basically I’ve met people like the Wozzard! And the kids on Wake the Dead can be found at any frat party, and Lomia and her parents litter the culteral landscape. Oh I could go on and on!
Mcmanus said it best “Lexx is allegorical satire”
quote
Lexx is the best ever Star Trek ripoff.
I though Galaxy Quest was pretty good.
quote:
Originally posted by Cat:
I though Galaxy Quest was pretty good.
Actually, you have a very good point. Galaxy Quest is the best Star Trek rip-off. No doubt about it.
Actually GalaXay Quest is closer in model to “The Three Amigos”, starring Chevy Chase, Martin Short, and Steve Martin. Out of work actors who are “contracted” by another distant culture of people, who believe them to be the fictional characters they portray on the screen, in order to stop a very real threat to their community.
ThanX for getting my back, Aleck. Tim Curry, Barry Bostick, Rutger Hauer, like d’uh. My brain wasn’t wroking too hard last nite.
I think it’s cute the way some people believe LEXX is the story of Kai
Sorry, kids, like it or not.. Kai is a major supporting character amongst a small ensemble. If Showtime hadn’t been so controllingly small minded, Kai may not have had a past. The leads are Stan and Xev, they have the “motivation” which Kai lacks. Without Stan or Xev for Kai to look after what would he do? There will be a “Stanley Tweedle Show” before there is a show called “Kai”. Kai only works in conjunction with the other characters. Even Brigadoom was acted out for the benefit of Stan and Xev.
Is Star Trek the story of Spock? Is Deep Space Nine only the story of Sisko? No my friends it is not. These were stories of a group of closely knit people, like the crew of the LEXX, and hey don’t forget about him(her in the German version). But despite starring Chris Barrie.. we all know that Red Dwarf is about a dude named “Dave Lister” who is supported by the other characters.
[ 03-10-2001: Message edited by: X ]
quote:
Originally posted by Hypatia:
I watched Solaris and wasn’t bored (it was too confusing to be boring!).
I didn’t see the Solaris movie. I didn’t know there was a movie.
I read the book by Stanisรนaw Lem. It’s a real page-turner! The setup is great, the only problem is an overly depressing and macabre ethos, expecially toward the end, and some plot flaws. But it was a good, exciting read, and I’d recommend it to any sci-fi fan (unless you suffer from depression). You have to read a couple paragraphs two or three times to understand what is being said, though. It’s a little complicated and more than a little arcane.Maybe it was one of those movies that butchered the book’s originalplot.
hi… forgot my password ::sobs:: but i’ve only posted like three times months ago so who cares, eh? *G*
i disagree about the writing on lexx… i think it’s quite bad most of the time, and only because nothing feels well thought out. :o/ it’s like the beans just don’t givea sh**, and just plop whatever they want out there that day. yes i’m aware it’s been planned to the end for years and years, but even though there have been some hilarious exchanges of dialoque between characters, the stories can be really retarded, especially in S4.
i get what they are trying to make fun of on S4… i just think that saturday night live and even jay leno know how to parody our politics better than lexx does, LoL ;o)~ it just feels over done, like they are trying too hard to be funny and so it comes out all wrong and is dull to me.
i really enjoyed the first four movies and like the underlying “universe” the lexx writers have established, but if you don’t *just* like seeing the characters do things because you have actually met the actors and beans it’s not the same. it’s like watching someone else’s home movies – “you’da hadta bean there” *G*
i think the actors are horrible singers, so i don’t get the thrill that most people doing having to sit through MM at the piano being completely outta tune..! xoO [maybe 6 years of singing lessons made me overly picky, dunno] actually, xenia isn’t too bad.
anyway, that’s just what i DON’T like about lexx… the episode writing, i think it’s pitiful and i know this will upset some people because you’re all friends with the beans but i’m just being honest. the acting is all top notch and wonderful, i keep hoping the episodes will get better and there have been some great ones, but they were mainly in S3… S2 i gave more leeway to because they were just getting started then, but S4 has just been one miserable disappointment after another… it’s gotten to the point i enjoy the scifi BB fan fiction more than the actual weekly episode. *VBG*
what i do like about lexx is the way they aren’t scared to do what they want to do… i’m always impressed by how daring they will be. the px4 site, the kid plummeting to his death..! ;oD WONDERFUL, hehehe. the intercharacter dialogue is usually the *ONLY* redeeming thing about the episode, because some of that can be just so good.
star trek… what can i say? i like the original trek a little and used to be a ds9 fan but the past four years i really couldn’t care less about it. ds9 *started out* edgy but that quickly fell by the way side for *feel good things* like quark and odo actually becoming *buds* and gul dukat being tamed and stupid crap like that. :oP when ds9 started to be less cerebral and *grumpy*, the fans started to jet and i think that says a lot about the diversity in scifi fandom… not *EVERYBODY* wants a quick paced sterile HAPPY show.
the thing about star trek being about *saving* people is so redundant that it’s obvious ppl have missed the point: they ARE soldiers… it’s their JOB to help people, it’s not like they are just a bunch of people hanging out and decide to float around the universe and save everybody, LoL :o) if they didn’t help people, we’d be complaining about how lame they are at thier jobs instead. *G* so whaddaya really expect them to do, eh?
babylon 5… blah. :oP that’s all i can say. i just… CAN’T care about the characters the way i do about the Lexx crew, which is really lexx’s magic appeal IMHO. the B5 seemed *too* purposefully flawed, like they were trying too hard to not be like trek. while on one hand trek is too sterile, B5 was too “yukky”… too much conflict, too little resolution, even at the end of a season wide arc.
and i 100% disagree that stanley tweedle is like “your average guy”… he’s a caricture of a loser, not like anybody i know. just because people feel scared sometimes in tough situations doesn’t mean we all act like stan… :oP lots of people outside of uniform know how to suck it in and rise to the occasion, even if they don’t *have* to. so stan is less of an “average guy” than he is an example of a “loser”, and the two aren’t one and the same…??? how could people think that, i really don’t understand because that is a pitiful politically correct view of a guy since all we do is put men down these days. :oP i have more hope than that for male-kind, LoL :o)
i know guys feel a kinship with stan since he doesn’t get much action and most guys feel they don’t get as much as they’d like… LoL :o) but come on, stan is more of an embodiment of human flaws than he seems like an actual person you may run across.
one reason i responded to this post is because i got an email today, WARNING me about posting the critisms i feel about lexx on the scifi BB!!! AS IF!!! :oO it said i may offend some people who know the beans or whatever… my response was i’m sure they have thicker skins than that. :oP i love A LOT of the things about lexx, but i just have issues with the episode writing, and it’s my right to say so… i don’t mind if people disagree with that or not, i’ll still feel the same way. but no one is going to WARN me not to talk about it, thats just BS. ;oP LoL
farscape… well, i was excited about it before i saw it, but once i did my excitement has slowly dwindled to the point i just don’t really care anymore. i’ll watch it if it’s on, and some eps are good but most are a snooze. and it’s the OPPOSITE reason than lexx; farscape intercharacter dialogue is the pits, man… it’s harder to care about characters who don’t say anything that keeps you interested. the premise of each FS ep blows away the lexx episodes… but does FS deliver in the end? not to me… my shipment must be sent somewhere else, LoL ;o) and i think some characters take themselves seriously while others don’t… their humor tends to be cerebral while lexx humor is a fat guy in a bikini, LoL :o) it’s more blatant that they are trying to weird you out on lexx.
star wars… ::GAG:: not going there. :oP always hated it.
i think lexx is a fantasy show in space more than star wars, though… mainly because there was *some* technology to be poured over, if not in the movies then the multimedia that came around the movies. books of diagrams, theories, yada yada yada have come out in droves over the years, and there was *some* sci to their fi, LoL :o) calling lexx scifi rather than fantasy is just an easy out IMHO since they *float around in space*.
i despise american sitcoms, so i’m no childe of that way of thinking, LoL ;o) when it comes to comedy i mainly only watch britcoms, so i do understand the low key mixed with the outrageous that occurs on lexx… my point is i just don’t think they work it together as well as they could. i have noticed episodes written by/ with jeffery h. tend to be the best, and generally the ones talked about with the most affection by fans, so thats proof it *can* be done. but i think the main lexx writers are as bored with the show as the actors are… which is a real shame since THEY were the ones who decided the show was something to put on tv. :oP
this has been an emergency message from the ELF broadcasting system… you are free to turn your screens back to regular programming… *VBG*
quote
Originally posted by :one reason i responded to this post is because i got an email today, WARNING me about posting the critisms i feel about lexx on the scifi BB!!! AS IF!!!
O it said i may offend some people who know the beans or whatever… my response was i’m sure they have thicker skins than that. P i love A LOT of the things about lexx, but i just have issues with the episode writing, and it’s my right to say so… i don’t mind if people disagree with that or not, i’ll still feel the same way. but no one is going to WARN me not to talk about it, thats just BS. ;oP LoL P *VBG*———————————————
Hey Elfie thats not a surprise on that BB. There are a “certain” group of people on that board who think they are in charge. They seem to get a kick out of telling others what to do and then claim there not “telling” anyone what to do but infact they really are.Any way as to your other comments I think you need to stop reading way to much into some of these shows. I have encountered others like you in the past. You seem to have a mental inability to just purely enjoy something. Trust me if you look to hard at a painting all you will see are dots.
-SM
quote:
Originally posted by Aleck:
Nigel Bennett won the Gemini Award for his role as Lucien LaCroix (I think that’s the name) on Forever Knight, McManus won the Genie for his role in Speaking Parts, and Xenia has trained at the Actors’ Studio in NY and at the Lee Strasberg Institute for Dramatic Arts in NY and LA.
–Aleck
too true, but i think mm was nominated for a genie, i don’t think he actually got it…i think atom egoyan has actually gotten an award or two
elfie and slop: i am continually seeing ugly little blowups at scifi so i don’t drop in that much…i would like to clarify that i at least am not ‘friends with the beans etc’; but i do like s4 overall and probably jeff’s eppy’s the best…the thing about lexx is that when it’s on it’s really on and different, but when it’s off it might as well be porky’s revenge…
[ 09-10-2001: Message edited by: FX ]
quote:
Originally posted by FX:
too true, but i think mm was nominated for a genie, i don’t think he actually got it…i think atom egoyan has actually gotten an award or two
Oh, dear god.
Well, thanks, FX, for pointing out that the actor bio I wrote up for the first Season 2 disc is *completely wrong*…I honestly don’t know how it got out of here without that being caught. Now I get to hang my head in shame and face the wrath of everyone in my office. Well, at least it’s been caught before the same mistake shows up in the actor bios for the first S3 disc.
Mistakes were made.
–Aleck
Wow, this is a really good discussion. Everyone has made such good points, that I can’t really add much, other than I look for the same things in all other stories that I look for in scifi: strong characterizations and good story lines. Lexx offers the best of these, I think (American TV tends to be vapid, always going for the square-jawed hero and the happy ending). Lexx is off-beat and funny, and presents human beings the way they really are: often selfish, weak, dishonest, greedy, and plain mean, but capable of great heroism, and selflessness, and love.
I admire Farscape for its technical aspects (Muppets they are, but they’re *great* Muppets). But the stories and the characters rarely grab me the way Lexx does.
Star Trek was ground-breaking, and I thank God for it, but now it just seems tired and worn out. Star Wars had tremendous potential which was frittered away on a lot of special effects. I think there are a lot of new things coming up now that may show promise, but we’ll have to see. The almighty dollar (as in all things) drives entertainment, and the PTB tend to go for the lowest common denominator instead of giving us mind-stretching quality.
Well, elfie.. there seems to be two camps of LEXX fans forming.. the ones that prefer the movies and season 3, which to me seem similar in their approach of the characters and there is season 2 and season 4 which are different from the others but similar to each other.
There were people who liked the direction of season 3 better and there were people who really liked season 2 that thought season 3 was too dry, most of those people of course like season 4 better than season 3.
Me personally, I’ve enjoyed each incarnation. Each season seems to have a life of it’s on that is somewhat of a departure from the previous one.
I see no reason not to post your discontent over season 4, it’s just an oppinion after all and people have been posting miXed reactions to all the changes on LEXX since season 2 began. One interview with Paul said they cut back on 790 in season 3 cause he saw so much protest to the character being annoying. Also at one of the UnCons Paul asked about 790 being in season 4 and 790 recieved a huge positive response from the people there. So they do listen to the fans on some level.
Each new season is my favorite. But what do I know, I enjoyed Episode One thoroughly I even liked Jar Jar. But that doesn’t mean I don’t want to see him die a horrible bloody death in the neXt one
Oh, and thank you for making those wonderful season 1 vidcaps from the LEXX DVDs. Wouldn’t Xactly call them “medium quality”
hello
slop: this post was asking people TO describe why people like what they like… i was hardly the only one going into depth on my thoughts of the scifi shows Holt asked about. if having “no quality control” on what you bother watching is a virtue to you, then more power to ya because at least you’ll be easily amused.
quote:
Originally posted by elfie:
helloslop: this post was asking people TO describe why people like what they like… i was hardly the only one going into depth on my thoughts of the scifi shows Holt asked about. if having “no quality control” on what you bother watching is a virtue to you, then more power to ya because at least you’ll be easily amused.
I don’t think that anyone was saying anything about having “no quality control.” I think that Slop was just saying that there is *no* perfect show out there, and if you scrutinize too harshly that you’ll never get any enjoyment out of anything. If you don’t think that the plotting of the episodes is up to standards, that’s your opinion, and you’re welcome to it. I personally am enjoying this more than any of the previous seasons, but that’s just my opinion. Personally, I prefer more stand-alone comedic episodes, with a bit of connective tissue to link the episodes together, and this one pulls it off more successfully than Season 2, IMO. Season 2 was basically a bunch of isolated incidents, which all ended with Mantrid drones flying in and destroying the place. This season, the writers seem to be better at allowing these isolated incidents to build on each other, rather than just standing alone, and there is a constant presence of recurring characters (besides the crew) that allow for a fluidity in storytelling that wasn’t present in S2. In Season 3, the Beans just didn’t know how to extend this story over 13 episodes. The filler stands out as filler, and is obviously not serving the story. As such, it comes across as a mish-mash of “story arc” vs. “stand-alone.” There are individual episodes that stand out, and I love the overall tone and characterization, but it’s not as solidly done as either S2 or S4. I’m not a huge fan of Season 1 as a complete unit, as I think that it suffers the same fate as S3. IWHS and GS work nicely together, but SN and EP stand out jarringly in comparison. Not that I don’t like them individually, but they don’t gel as a whole.
But that’s just my opinion. I could be wrong.
The thing I disagree with about your previous post, though, elfie, is that you seem to imply that unless you know/have met the actors or the Beans, you can’t like the episodes in general. That without this connection that it’s like watching someone else’s home movies. This, of course, is completely inaccurate. I know many people who like LEXX, and indeed like this season, and have never met *anyone* involved in the production of the series. Take me, for instance. I don’t know anyone involved. Have never personally spoken to *anyone* having anything to do with LEXX. Never even exchanged emails with anyone involved, unless you count sending Mamabear a couple of links about Craig Charles. While I’m working on the DVDs of the show, all of the correspondence is handled by people above me, and that correspondence is with people in the Digital arm of Salter. And I think this season features some of the Beans’ best work.
And if you prefer the scifi.com bb’s fan fiction to S4, I don’t know if you should be making statements about “quality control.”
–Aleck
anyway, [found my pword- yay] i was obviously mad when i posted… i was in “i’ll say what i don’t like about something if’n i want to” mode, LoL :o)
i enjoy lots of scifi tv & books, lexx included, but i always know exactly what i feel about everything, which can come off strange to people who don’t think very hard about what they like or don’t like. i am perfectly cool with other people who like shows that i don’t like, but in a *discussion* forum i will also mention what i don’t like, no one should see that as a personal attack unless i say; “bob! you are a total idiot buttface for liking that!” LoL! i’m not going there.
i read this BB and the scifi one for quite awhile before deciding to jump in, and i chose the scifi one because people generally engage in personal attacks a lot less often there. and normally if someone is saying something *about* somebody it’s because the person is being a total jerk but they refuse to see it. but i like both of them just fine… i just always know exactly what i feel about everything. ;o)~ i’m very in touch with my thoughts and feelings. *G*
i think lexx is a wonderful show with great actors, good writers and cool fans. i’d never seen ANY of S2 when i started watching S3, i’d only seen the movies & S3. so when S4 came on, i was just like… WHAT THE HECK ARE THEY DOING??? i felt they changed the formula of the show and ALLLL the people i’d been telling how great lexx was was totally put off by the time PX4 came out and refused to watch it ever again, LoL :o/
i did get my boyfriend to watch the movies and he thought they were pretty good but when the tv show comes on he’s starts READING so… ::sigh:: :o/ Lexx does it’s fair share in alienating new fans, too, you can’t just blame scifi. i just feel the show could be better because it HAS been better, that’s all i’m saying. if you like S4 from top to bottom good for you, i’m glad at least some people are enjoying it because i’ve been quite disappointed. i was a Lexx fan from the beginning when the movies came out, the only reason i didn’t see S2 was because i didn’t have scifi ch and didn’t know about it until S3.
i have the first 2 dvds of S2 now and i think they are wonderful and nothing like S4 at all, unless the format changes drastically after S2V2. true the stories are more self contained like S4, but my WHOLE POINT was i don’t think the writers are trying as hard with S4, maybe they are bored and that’s fine but i don’t have to be *Happy* about it. from what i’ve read everybody except brian downey is pretty much done with lexx as is, so why should it be any surprise that it’s showing in the episodes a bit.
i like lots of scifi novels, and the first 3 seasons of lexx reminded me of worlds from a book rather than typical tv/ movie standard scifi fare… and i will *always* love S1-3 of lexx for how wonderful they are for being able to do that. but it’s more of an “i love lexx..! except s4 which is stinky. ;oP” i did like vlad and magic baby, i thought they were definately up to par with S2 at least.
LEXX IS WONDERFUL! I LOVE IT! don’t take my disappointment in S4 as a personal attack on YOU… *G* i STILL stand behind my statements about stan not being an *average guy* though because i think the real average guy is much better than stan, LoL ;o) i love men and refuse to compare them ALLLLL to stan!!! ;oD
and as for the other shows i picked apart… well, tough. i just didn’t like those individual shows and that’s that. i love red dwarf and original trek, i love lexx and the transformers… and that, also, is just that. *G*
_elfie [who *ALWAYS* knows where her towel is *VBG*]
ps- you’re very welcome for the vidcaps! the gigashadow ones are coming soon, hopefully by this friday since starfireone convinced me to put up any and all new lexx stuff of fridays so starving lexx fans will have at least a little sumpthin’ to look at on fridays at 10pm, LoL ;o)
aleck: no, slopmaster made a personal judgement on me from one post, he knows nothing about me or what else i like. he said he “knew” me, which was ridiculous because you can’t really know anyone from one post on the internet.
and thats true about the BB fiction for the most part
LoL but when it’s good it’s really good… i know who to avoid posts by and who not to. *VBG*like i said, i’m glad some people are happy with season 4, maybe i shouldn’t have jumped to conclusions and thought everybody who like it know the beans, but up until this point you have been the exception in people i’ve talked to about it lexx- fan- wise. i’m sorry if i offended you, and you have a right to feel that way, now that i think about it it’s probably not the case 100% on that statement… especially if someone missed everything before Xevivor!
i was mad when i posted all of that, and i think being mad created a certain filter in what made it into the post, which was why i came back today to make sure everyone knows that i was being wreckless!!! ::woo:: LoL
my boyfriend is a news director so i know ALLLLL about yellow journalism, hehe, and my post wasn’t meant to speak for everybody… just *ME*. i’m not deluded enough to think i speak for the whole world on any given topic.later…
elfiequote:
Originally posted by elfie:
like i said, i’m glad some people are happy with season 4, maybe i shouldn’t have jumped to conclusions and thought everybody who like it know the beans, but up until this point you have been the exception in people i’ve talked to about it lexx- fan- wise. i’m sorry if i offended you, and you have a right to feel that way, now that i think about it it’s probably not the case 100% on that statement… especially if someone missed everything before Xevivor!
Oh, no offense taken, honestly. I just can’t figure out how many people must know the Beans…I mean, there are a number of people on this board alone who’ve never met the Beans yet enjoy S4. So I’m really not the exception
…there may be a bunch of people who are raving about the season and go off on tangents about their time at UnCon or whatever, but there have probably been a total of maybe 500 people (and that’s being generous) who’ve attended these shindigs, and I think more than 500 people are *watching*… Another thing I don’t understand, though, and this is totally unrelated to the topic, and I may as well point out that there is no offense intended in this question, but how do you arrive at the conclusion that this board has more in-fighting than the SciFi board? I mean, there’s the occasional spat between a few people (and you can rest assured that DT is involved in that case), but it’s always quick to blow over, and it’s generally good-humored enough…On the SciFi board, it seems like you’re plagued with trolls and the like.
Which is one reason why I’m always loathe to go into the place and post any video or DVD updates. Well, that and the fact that by the time I post anything it’s going to be swept off the screen by a million and six works of fiction…–Aleck
[ 10-10-2001: Message edited by: Aleck ]
quote:
Originally posted by Aleck:
but how do you arrive at the conclusion that this board has more in-fighting than the SciFi board? I mean, there’s the occasional spat between a few people (and you can rest assured that DT is involved in that caseOn the SciFi board, it seems like you’re plagued with trolls and the like.
Which is one reason why I’m always loathe to go into the place and post any video or DVD updates. Well, that and the fact that by the time I post anything it’s going to be swept off the screen by a million and six works of fiction…–Aleck
[ 10-10-2001: Message edited by: Aleck ]
amen, aleck my love! elfie, i am sorry you feel that way about us, but i can understand since when i visit scifi.bb it seems that i am reading ‘goodbye cruel board’ or apologies for misunderstandings, or a 1001 nights of kai
that is not snobbery, it is just not what i want to see…anyway,your points are well taken, and certainly nobody is going to tell you not to post your opinions here, but we will ask you not to insult people while you are doing it …your humble moderator, fx (by the way, i have it on good authority that everyone has been otr the last couple of weeks )Hey Aleck thanks for backing me up. As for you Elfi it wasn’t a personal crimitism. You proceded to find something wrong with several show and I took that as nit picking. So if I was wrong then I might condsider saying sorry or the like. Any whoo Lexx is cool and may it rule forever.
-SM
My biggest complaint about Sci-Fi is that some of the reply lists in billboards are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long. ha HAHAHA HA HA!
I read both this board and the sci-fi board
on a daily basis, and I do believe there is
an inherent difference. Where this board is
more dedicated to analyzing individual
episodes or general Lexx-related info, the
sci-fi board does seem concerned with alot
more O/T subjects. However, the fan fiction
is something I’m currently enjoying, (maybe
it’s because I just posted my first piece on
the board and I’m hoping it doesn’t get kicked off for ‘content’..) I think there’s
room for both kinds of fans. Regarding the
troll issue, every six weeks or so, it seems
the more ‘public’ sci-fi board has it’s share
of flamers that come in and start small fires, including people that regularly post
here. The difference here, is that there are
one or two individuals that make it a point
to constantly infuriate each other to the
point that I’ll jump back to the other board
for relative peace and quiet. I think folks
on this board take criticism WAY too personally..especially when it comes to the
show, after all, it’s not OUR show…
As for Season 4…I liked some episodes, and
hated others…but I loved all of season 3,
and have never met the Beans, or any cast
members…but I can tell the difference in
the writing..Jeffrey has been let out of the
box, probably because the other Beans are
tired of writing…I might not like all the
eps, but I know Jeff is throwing in the
kitchen sink because he knows it’s the last
season..
But I’m glad that everyone at least likes to
kiss and make up, it makes for a much more
easy-going board for me…a relative newbie.. quote:
Originally posted by mayaxiong:
Regarding the troll issue, every six weeks or so, it seems the more ‘public’ sci-fi board has it’s share of flamers that come in and start small fires, including people that regularly post here.
Respectfully, I must disagree. I read the Sci Fi board fairly regularly as well (well, what I can stand to read on it), and it’s more than just every six weeks or so. If it’s not Farscape fans coming in and proclaiming that everyone should love Farscape instead of the t’n’a parade that is LEXX, it’s some idiot forcing religion down everyone’s throat or somebody getting their dander up over *something*…and these threads go on for days and days and get continued over onto multiple boards, and involve entire populaces. At least here, as I’ve said, if there’s an argument, it’s generally *intellectual* (unlike the SciFi board) and good-humored enough.
quote
I think folks on this board take criticism WAY too personally..especially when it comes to the show, after all, it’s not OUR show…
Again, I have to respectfully disagree. I don’t think anyone on this board takes criticism of the show that personally. I mean, there was a good deal of criticism of the writing of a number of S3 episodes, and nobody left in a huff. I think people take criticism of their own pet theories *about* the show personally, because, well, they’re personal theories. I think you may be taking *disagreements* over certain things as something more than they are. There is generally little to no hostility on this board, unless someone says or does something *personal* against someone else (like calling them stupid, retarded, or a sick freak). Don’t take heated discussion as hostile, because most often, it’s not. At least there’s not people here who aren’t talking to each other. We all seem to get along in our own way, and actually communicate, while the scifi.com board seems a bit fractioned into groups.
And, this is a side note, when you said “most public sci fi board” above, did you mean the most public board on the scifi.com site or the most public board dealing with sci fi, or the most public board dealing with LEXX? Because if you’re talking most public board about the series, I’d say that the lexx.com board is probably at least as public as the scifi.com site, and it doesn’t get *nearly* the amount of trollish behavior that the scifi board gets.
–Aleck
Regarding the troll issue, I did make mention
of the fact that the sci-fi board gets WAY
more O/T flamers than this one does, and
perhaps it seems as if it’s only every 6
weeks or so, but since the Sept. 11 disaster,
it does seem as if the board there has been
up to it’s armpits in trollish behaviour,
there’ve been people totally acting extremely
rude, true, but this list (as I mentioned)
only sees that kind of discussion between
certain individuals, not as a group at large.
I’ve seen entire pages devoted to rantings
on one subject or another that has nothing
to do with Lexx on the sci-fi board, which
I think does seem more like a public board,
in that it’s sponsored by an actual tv station, not as a private individual’s board,
(some of the sci-fi posters aren’t even aware
of it..)which is perfectly fine with me..
since I’d rather be in the company of the
more intellectual poster as opposed to the
part-time readers that may hit and run the
sci-fi board from time to time.
As for the posters here and their opinions
to the criticism they recieve, I sometimes,
(underline sometimes) see patterns of behaviour designed to inflame certain
individuals, but everyone seems to take it
pretty much in stride, and since this is
all strictly my opinion, folks can agree or
not agree, it’s lovely with me..I’m just
happy that I have places to discuss this show, which is one of my all-time faves..
and don’t expect everyone to share my opinion, which is certainly everyone’s right.
I’m glad to have the opportunity to express
my opinion here, and to have people respond
to it..thanks for sharing… Okay fine… I got run off the SciFi bb by APEC.. but this is my sandboX damnit!!
APEC accused me of telling people not to post their fan fictions. They accused me of flaming people and flooding in chat. They still to this day make ill refference of me although I say nothing about them and avoid them at all costs. They attacked me and made accusations of me, I finally got tired of it and blew a fuse. Now I am declared enemy of the people on SciFi because I oppose their tyranically bullying of people and over exagerated or just plain made up accusations of others. Now one of their head members is posting here.. I won’t mention her name but her initials are: Dgrequeen.
Aleck and DT don’t get along. But it is a far cry from I’ve seen on the SciFi bb and what they to do people off the board via e-mail and what not to harass people. I don’t read any FFs of any kind by anyone. I’m just not a reader of fiction. I prefer non-fiction. But I will not tolerate the attitudes and behaviors of people like that and this whole discusion is really starting to get under my skin.
The SciFi bb is an ugly bitter place run amok by ugly bitter people. I have had people tell me I shouldn’t let those people run me off. But why stay? It’s not worth it. If you believe SciFi is a safer place to play then fine. There isn’t any role-playing or fan fics here anyways. But play with fire and get burned I say.
So before we go any further.. and since APEC seems to be invading this board. Can we just please drop the comparisons now before this gets ugly. As you can see, I have very strong oppinions about certain people on the SciFi bb and I know they have strong feelings about me.
There is more discussion here. There is more FFs and RPGs on SciFi. That’s really the only way to evaluate the two. This board is the nicest BB in the two universes. With the Xeption of DT and Aleck, there is no infighting and ugliness. And the majority of the time.. even when DT acts off his rocker he is pretty well detained in his behavior and even when he’s really ****ed, behaves with more civility than I am capable of. And although I argue with him myself over the “Zev/Xev” thing, I wish him no real malice and enjoy his pressence here.
Having said that, I am prepared for more accusations and backlash of course.
Digressing into the cyber sunset..
-X, Jedi Master
quote:
Originally posted by X:
Having said that, I am prepared for more accusations and backlash of course.Digressing into the cyber sunset..
-X, Jedi Master
did you know that being a jedi knight
is recognized as being as much of a religion as christianity or judaism by the british census bureau?
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