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And I was just saying that I brought up the things first, I didn’t counter somebody else’s statement.
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Lee P. Sherman, code name DalekTek790
Whovian, Froudian, Lexxian, etc.there you go again…thanx for the correction ,you are right…now why can’t you be {i}foolishly consistently [/i] gracious?
[This message has been edited by FX (edited June 07, 2001).]
Why on Earth should Lexx have more morals?
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“I throw a little fit, I slit my teenage wrist. The most I can learn is in records that you burn”“drove the children from their chores. Handcrafted housewifes into whores. Fear of the beast is calling it near, creating what we’re hating; its only fear that is here….”
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Originally posted by DalekTek790:
I voiced my opinion that His Divine Shadow was a great villain. People (mostly Aleck) disagreed with that.
Sliding on the slippery slope of pneumonia, so forgive me if I’m less-than-coherent, but I didn’t disagree with you on the value of HDS, but on the specific point that HDS was somehow sympathetic or “human.”
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I pointed out that Lexx was a show in the spirit of Star Trek. People disagreed with that.
Oh, let’s not be revisionist in our history, DT, you said that LEXX was “just a rip off” of Star Trek. Not that it was in the spirit of, not that it was influenced by, and not even that it owed a debt to Star Trek, but that it was merely a rip-off.
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With my luck, if I said I liked Lexx everyone else would say the show was lousy.
No, I just wouldn’t believe you.
–Aleck
I think that the Show, is Lousy!
Just Kidding.
But seriously, I think that Lexx, should have more Violence, MORE Sex, and I think that you should take your “Christian” Values, and put them in the Empty Space, in Between your Ears!
That, and if they ARE, going to Censor it, then they should, at least put it on, at a Reasonable Time.
[This message has been edited by Zaphod Beeblebrox (edited June 07, 2001).]
Here, here! You tell ’em…..
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“I throw a little fit, I slit my teenage wrist. The most I can learn is in records that you burn”“drove the children from their chores. Handcrafted housewifes into whores. Fear of the beast is calling it near, creating what we’re hating; its only fear that is here….”
I see the control freak’s been messing with my messages while I was gone.
And (if you’re referring to me) I never said anything about “Christian values.” You don’t even know if I’m Christian!
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Lee P. Sherman, code name DalekTek790
Whovian, Froudian, Lexxian, etc.
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Originally posted by DalekTek790:
I see the control freak’s been messing with my messages while I was gone.And (if you’re referring to me) I never said anything about “Christian values.” You don’t even know if I’m Christian!
actually you did claim to be of puritan descent in one of your other posts, as well as of some protestant denomination, and if the control freak you are referring to is me, no i did not mess with your message, i posted a reply to you with your quote in it, the next day there was this weird hybrid post that apparently neither of us wrote. i just assumed when i saw it that you had somehow altered your post, but i didn’t figure it was worth pursuing, i thought you were just trying to be nice…silly me
Lexx is very unique among Sci-Fi shows. I think its erroticism is part of what makes this show special. I really dislike having parts of scenes smudged out and other scenes cut out entirely. The US is becoming such a prudish, right wing christian fundamentalist country. My wife and I are thinking of moving to Canada.
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Originally posted by sweetdeath:
I really dislike having parts of scenes smudged out and other scenes cut out entirely. The US is becoming such a prudish, right wing christian fundamentalist country. My wife and I are thinking of moving to Canada.
hear hear! but you know, i bet even canada has right wingers and fundamentalists, every country seems to be suffering through that, but you are right, the canadians don’t seem to allow them as much say in the workings of government and society as we do
I think we should be both right winger and left winger……We need both wings to fly!!
I don’t know what made me say that but it’s getting late and I’m tired…..
What I mean is: why was Christianity even brought up? It has nothing to do with this topic! And yes, I’m Lutheran, but that’s irrelevant.
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Lee P. Sherman, code name DalekTek790
Whovian, Froudian, Lexxian, etc.
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Originally posted by DalekTek790:
What I mean is: why was Christianity even brought up? It has nothing to do with this topic! And yes, I’m Lutheran, but that’s irrelevant.
Nobody said that you were Christian until you started denying that you’d ever said that you were. What was brought up were “Christian values.” Whether you are Christian or not is irrelevant, but the values that you have espoused are most often associated with fundamentalist or puritanical Christian faiths. Therefore, your statements can be said to be promoting “Christian values” with or without your actually being a Christian. It’s like if I started blaming minorities for the state of the nation, and recommending their extermination. What I’d be saying would essentially be Nazi philosophy, and it would be irrelevant if I were an actual member of the party or not.
(Note: I do not espouse the beliefs I was using in the above hypothetical example. Just so you know.)–Aleck
Back to the missing scenes- I just recieved my videos of the Lexx movies which I had seen on the Sci Fi channel. The shower scene was cut for obvious sexual reasons. But also the scene where Kai finds Squish. Without that scene I missed the bonding that occurred and it changed the story for me a little. Also I understand the British version of I worship His Shadow cut Bug Bomb talking. I don’t get it…
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Originally posted by Aleck:
I completely agree. It is an interesting topic, and relevant! Especially here in the States nowadays when congress is openly criticizing the film industry and the amount of sex and violence they’re “forcing” into the lives of everyday citizens. People claim that it desensitizes us to the effects of violence in everyday life, yet Japan is one of the most non-violent countries in the world, and yet their entertainment is MUCH more frank in its depiction of sex and violence.Interesting conversation here!
–Aleck
American culture would not have sunken into depravity like it has if the people were not brainwashed by the media. Television and movies present faulty value systems and immoral norms within a fictional context that all too many confuse with real life. Something needs to be done because everyone seems to be ignoring the problem.
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Lee P. Sherman, code name DalekTek790
Whovian, Froudian, Lexxian, etc.
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Originally posted by DalekTek790:
American culture would not have sunken into depravity like it has if the people were not brainwashed by the media. Television and movies present faulty value systems and immoral norms within a fictional context that all too many confuse with real life. Something needs to be done because everyone seems to be ignoring the problem.
Stating that American society has “sunken (sic) into depravity” is a generalization based purely on subjective interpretation. Your opinions and views are yours and yours alone, and are not to be confused with hard and fast facts. Do not forget this.
But, to take up your argument, how do you explain the low crime rate and lack of “depravity” in Japan, where their culture accepts into the mainstream THE most explicit sex and violence (and practically any combination of the two imaginable)? How did they manage to escape the (snicker) “brainwashing” that our media subjects us to? And, for that matter, how did *you* manage to escape the mind-control units?
…And, what about American culture do you see as “depraved?” You cannot go around tossing off statements about our descent into the muck without giving examples of what exactly bothers you. Otherwise, your argument lacks any basis or potential for construcive use, and must therefore be judged as “being contrary for contrary’s sake.” What value systems are you deeming as “faulty?” What norms are you putting forth as being “immoral?” Say what you mean, and stop being so vague about what outrages you so much.–Aleck
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Originally posted by DalekTek790:
American culture would not have sunken into depravity like it has if the people were not brainwashed by the media. Television and movies present faulty value systems and immoral norms within a fictional context that all too many confuse with real life. Something needs to be done because everyone seems to be ignoring the problem.
Are you trying to say that American society was better before the media had cultural influence? When “American society” was busy enslaving, lynching and degrading people because of the colour of their skin? And if people are confusing a clearly fictional context with reality, these people have some other problems which cause this extreme belief. Perhaps it is society which is creating problems and not the media, hmm?
I’m sorry if you think people are ganging up on you again, but what you are saying is something I see as a modern day witch-hunt, fueled by ignorance and wanting to put the blame for problems on the a simple “cause” instead of looking beyond blame and tackling the problem. Oh, and if you think the media “brainwashes” people, why oh why oh WHY are you posting messages on a site centred on science fiction TELEVISION and MOVIES?
In future, try not to make radical views about society based on something you read in a religious pamphlet at an airport. Again, much apologies for ranting at you, but if you have read all of my post, you will perhaps see why.[This message has been edited by Ptarg (edited July 10, 2001).]
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Originally posted by DalekTek790:
American culture would not have sunken into depravity like it has if the people were not brainwashed by the media. Television and movies present faulty value systems and immoral norms within a fictional context that all too many confuse with real life. Something needs to be done because everyone seems to be ignoring the problem.
if by depravity you are referring to the number of “children” who run around shooting each other i agree things are definitely getting worse here…but i think that is first and foremost lack of responsible behavior and involvement by the parents, as well as the ridiculous availability of guns here…if on the other hand you are referring to couples living together,gay rights, and single parents, i do not see what tv has to do with that…speaking as someone whose parents did not let out of their site, and who monitored my grades and behavior, the first thing i think of when some 15 year old does something atrocious is, where were their parents? i watch a lot of splatter and such, i read a lot of material, but i still call strangers mr and ms/mrs, i still open doors for other people, i do not steal, nor do i beat or kill other people…i do however refrain from having my friends with ill-mannered children to my house, and i will snap a putdown to a rude person in a nanosecond
…so, like aleck, i am asking you to be more specific
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Originally posted by Ptarg:
And if people are confusing a clearly fictional context with reality, these people have some other problems which cause this extreme belief. Perhaps it is society which is creating problems and not the media, hmm?
A good point, well made. I’ve never been able to understand the superficiality of pointing the blame at music, movies, games or TV when it comes to the matter of “inspiring” schmucks who may act inappropriately. Rather than get to the meat of the matter, it becomes a question of “What music did they listen to? What movies did they watch?” instead of “Where have we failed?” It’s too easy to point an accusatory finger at the monolithic, faceless being known as media, when the finger should be pointed at themselves.
–Aleck
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Originally posted by FX:
if by depravity you are referring to the number of “children” who run around shooting each other i agree things are definitely getting worse here…but i think that is first and foremost lack of responsible behavior and involvement by the parents, as well as the ridiculous availability of guns here…
…And, let’s not forget the federally-funded actions: a drug war that has marginalized large numbers of young people and given criminals a reason to organize (and the money to encourage others to emulate their lifestyle), all the while driving the cost of certain addictive and lethal drugs down by increasing their availability (and locking away, in disproportionate numbers, people using non-addictive and relatively harmless drugs). But, no, let’s blame rap music on that instead. That makes a *lot* more sense.
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if on the other hand you are referring to couples living together,gay rights, and single parents, i do not see what tv has to do with that…
Well, I can’t speak for DT (though he’s been known to speak for me), but the traditional stance taken by certain groups of fundamentalists has been that the godless communist liberal secular humanist Satanists that run Hollywood have been systematically inserting their agenda into the mainstream in order to make the people of this great nation turn their backs on God and embrace their heathen and paganistic ways (which includes, but is not limited to, embracing homosexuality as an “alternative lifestyle,” sex for reasons other than procreation, enjoying sex when it’s *for* procreation, living together out of wedlock, etc.). It’s all part of that vast Satanic conspiracy that will lead to the rising of the Antichrist and his acceptance by the masses in the last days. You know, *that* conspiracy.
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i watch a lot of splatter and such, i read a lot of material, but i still call strangers mr and ms/mrs, i still open doors for other people, i do not steal, nor do i beat or kill other people…
Like you, I also watch a lot of horror flicks, listen to a lot of what some might call “offensive,” read anti-social material, and whatnot, and I’m one of the nicest folks around. Of course, I’m a dyed-in-the-wool, card-carrying, soul-snatching Satanist, so maybe DT has a point.
–Aleck
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Originally posted by Aleck:
I’m one of the nicest folks around. Of course, I’m a dyed-in-the-wool, card-carrying, soul-snatching Satanist, so maybe DT has a point. –Aleck
oh pshaw, you’re a happy snarling pagan at best, anton levay was a drama queen, and dt was simply restating the twinkie defense…i have entrails to read, talk to you all later…blessed be
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Originally posted by FX:
oh pshaw, you’re a happy snarling pagan at best, anton levay was a drama queen, and dt was simply restating the twinkie defense…i have entrails to read, talk to you all later…blessed be
It’s LaVey. And you’re lumping me in with the Pagans??? Yikes.
And there’s nothing wrong with being a drama queen. I’m one at least twice weekly. –Aleck
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Originally posted by Aleck:
It’s LaVey. And you’re lumping me in with the Pagans??? Yikes.
And there’s nothing wrong with being a drama queen. I’m one at least twice weekly. –Aleck
damn that dysgraphia! my wernicke’s is showing again…i’ll have to start reading my submissions before submitting..so to speak…
okay so you are a PAGAN drama queen, more like twice daily…go sacrifice a poodle with lavender toenails or something fx
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Originally posted by FX:
damn that dyslexia! i guess i will have to start actually reading my submissions before submitting…so to speak…
all right, so you are a PAGAN drama queen…so go visit a sky clad coven or something and sacrifice a poodle with lavender toenails
Well, you took the 1000th post honors. I was trying to sync up my replies for that one, but it didn’t work.
Harumph. You’re just calling me a pagan now to get my goat (which you can’t have, BTW…Ol’ Baphomet ain’t yours for the takin’). Call me that once more, and I’ll have to call up some favors from my pals Legba and Carrefour, get ’em to open up some doors for me. Send one o’ my servitors out to do some work. They get the job done nicely.
…Pagan, my eye…–Aleck
Wow, who ever would have thought that my innocent little question would still be going after so many months. I guess this just shows that people have very wide and very stong views on this subject. And what is and isn’t censorship, and when it should and shouldn’t or indeed, if ever be applied.
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thefrey
Creator of the Kai Klone Doll and the Kai Kaption Screensavers http://members.home.net/thefrey/%5B/url%5DCripes this has been one longwinded discussion!
I couldn’t make it all the way through the first page. But…
Blackcloud, I don’t know where you’re located but here in the US they did show the May/Kai shoulder rub. I remember it very specifically. I was trying to figure out what the heck he was doing. I think they passed it off like Kai thought her shoulder was hurting so he massaged it.
Yes, SciFi does try sell LEXX on it’s SeX, but then they cut or blur those parts out, but they don’t censor any of the violence. SciFi is also notorious for cutting shows short just to get in more commericial time.
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Originally posted by X:
Cripes this has been one longwinded discussion!SciFi is also notorious for cutting shows short just to get in more commericial time.
x you aint seen long winded yet
anyway, last night i was bitching about the commercials to my friend…and talk about tight as crab’s asses, why can’t they do a real show with real people, oh say twice a day, with scifi news, interviews and so forth…i mean, how much could one or two starving actors and a few sound bites/vid clips cost? they could tie it into their website and get a sense of real people into the programming, instead of faceless programming…okay, i guess it is a little mtv meets scifi but why not?!
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Originally posted by FX:
why can’t they do a real show with real people, oh say twice a day, with scifi news, interviews and so forth…i mean, how much could one or two starving actors and a few sound bites/vid clips cost? they could tie it into their website and get a sense of real people into the programming, instead of faceless programming…okay, i guess it is a little mtv meets scifi but why not?!
If I remember right, SciFi did this in the early days. I remember that there was a weekly show, on Sundays, with interviews, close-ups on series, etc. Our Man Harlan had a commentary spot on it. Don’t remember much about it, as this was before I actually *got* SciFi and had seen it at friends’ places. I agree, though. It’s time to re-start the idea. I mean, I’d much rather watch “Exposure” when it has hosts instead of the “Sci Fi Voice” that they use most of the time. And I miss the “Friday Prime” hostess. Gave the network more of a human face.
–Aleck
Hannbal Lector can grab people and bite them then beat them with a nightstick with blood getting on his shirt on WB but Lexx gets censored?
I’m surpised P4X with the missionarys being kidnapped was actually shown
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“What a waste!”-Xev Bellringer
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Originally posted by LexxAndalite:
Hannbal Lector can grab people and bite them then beat them with a nightstick with blood getting on his shirt on WB but Lexx gets censored?I’m surpised P4X with the missionarys being kidnapped was actually shown
especially the flying butt plugs! that missionary boy had nice underpinnings i thought
but that face was just too annoyingly clean cut! GO HANNIBAL, one of my personal heroes, but yeah the deference to violence vs sex here is kind of indicative of the mindset here…but we did see a surprising amount of xev
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Originally posted by Aleck:
If I remember right, SciFi did this in the early days. I remember that there was a weekly show, on Sundays, with interviews, close-ups on series, etc. Our Man Harlan had a commentary spot on it. Don’t remember much about it, as this was before I actually *got* SciFi and had seen it at friends’ places.
–Aleck
Indeed you are correct. It was a good show, kind of had a ‘techy’ feel to it, seems like they had episode reviews and previews, cast member interviews, sneak previews of upcoming films (If I remember correctly I first heard about the ‘new’ Star Wars on that show). I think Harlan did a book review segment. I agree that this type of show is very much lacking on the Sci-Fi channel, especially in these days when we have so many Sci-Fi shows going on (back then there was …ummm B5, sliders and whatever Star Trek was doing and that was about it).
Here is to wishful thinking.
antiZero
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Originally posted by sapphire753:
Personally, I think it is rediculous to edit out the boob scenes etc…. even if it doesn’t change the story line. I mean it’s not like they are doing hard core porn. The problem in America is the general publics “victorian” attitude towards sex and body parts. Sexual body parts that is!!! As someone before pointed out, Its Ok if someones head, arm, torso etc… gets blown up, torn off, ripped open, ect….Our public doesn’t mind seeing that. But show a Womans BREAST…Oh my god…you’d think they would stop and think about this for a minute.
Actually, it’s even more retarded than that. On American TV I have seen proof that the only part of the breast that is a problem (MUST be censored) is the nipples. I’ve seen shows on primetime slots that show top, sides, and even the bottom of someone’s breasts (even in sexual scenes) but as soon as there is a nipple about to be shown, it gets cut. Is there something wrong with nipples? Men have them yet we can show them off anywhere we like (except where the sign says “no shirt no service” of course…
-Jace
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has anyone had the chance to view the lexx dvd’s with all the extras and sans censorship? what did you think?
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I am VERY glad to get the DVDs. I reccommend them to those Lexx fans that hate to see things cut for time or content. Several episodes are paced MUCH better when uncut on DVD. I hope that Aleck can convince Acorn Media to also sell Series 3 and 4 here in the USA.
Generally, I hate things being cut. I don’t mind when a director cuts a scene because it fails to convey what he/she intended or damages the film’s intent (but I like to see these things offered separately on the DVD, since I am an avid filmmaking fan). However, in regards to sex or violence, I am frustrated by the attempts of others to modify the content of materials for me. Especially materials that prove to be better once seen uncut.
The way I look at it, if the writers, actors and directors put it in, it belongs there. If I don’t like it, my argument is with the program’s overal creative aspect and not with the nature of humanity. I shouldn’t have to suffer someone else’s tampering.
I don’t specifically seek mindless violence or gratuitus sex. They are part of life. They have a place in the telling of engaging stories about people/places/things. You can’t edit life, so why try to eliminate sex or violence (or language) from something? I suppose I am capable of being offended by some things, but that causes me no pain or loss. I can handle the occassional offence without calling out to have the offensive materials banned forever. Granted, I’m pretty open and realistic about sex,language and violence, unlike my repressed parents / fellow Americans….
-Jace
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