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What are the different types of First Ones? I know the First Ones (Lorien’s people), the Vorlons, the Shadows, the Watchers, the Soul Hunters, the Ralgans…who else? I know there were more.
Zog.
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Lee P. Sherman, code name DalekTek790
Whovian, Froudian, Lexxian, etc.The only others I can think of are the Draal that made the Great Machine but I have a feeling that they’re Ancients and not first ones.
What about the things that walk at Sigma 957?
Those were the Watchers (“Zog.”). I’m not sure they gave all the First Ones names.
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Lee P. Sherman, code name DalekTek790
Whovian, Froudian, Lexxian, etc.as far as i know the vorlons and the shadows werent exactly first ones..they where decendants of the first ones (that is why the listened when lorien and the other first ones showed up :see into the fire: )but hey now theyve goen to mcdonalds or beyond the rim, same difference really..(have u ever waited in a q at mcdonalds???)
and draal was the keeper of the great machine
not its creator..as for them you’d havta ask zathras..or his brother zathras
but then again i could be wrong… : )erm just checked my sources and i may be wrong on the shadows front..they tell me that they r first ones and i better set the record straight or else…
the shadows and vorlons are both first ones
(see there i said it : P to u shadows)
now put that down plse
arrrgghggggghhhhhhh
/me goes thudI thought that the Shadows and Vorlons were first ones, but when Sheridan asked Lorien if he was a First One, Lorien replied something along the lines of “I am *THE* First One” ?
“First One” is not a fixed title. As time goes on, younger and younger races are referred to as “First Ones.” We saw in “The Deconstruction of Falling Stars” that 600,000 years after the Shadow Wars, Humans are called one of the “First Ones.”
Were the Shadows and the Vorlons the only First Ones to guide the development of the younger races, or did others, such as the Watchers of Sigma 957 do the same?
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Lee P. Sherman, code name DalekTek790
Whovian, Froudian, Lexxian, etc.i think the watchers of sigma 957
zog and alll that
thought of the younger races as ants in the playground to quote a famous narn and as such never paid us much attention
but i agree on your point that its a matter of perspective as too what a first one is..In the epochal episode “Into the Fire” we see a bunch of different weird ships in that big war, and we are told they belong to First Ones. What I meant in my initial question was: were all the First One species represented by the ships seen in previous episodes that I just missed? Or did just the Watchers appear and the others recruited when we weren’t looking? Some of those ships are REALLY cool, and I want to know who their pilots are!
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Lee P. Sherman, code name DalekTek790
Whovian, Froudian, Lexxian, etc.haaa well
the watchers are the only ones we see recruited.
but they B5 staff (with help from the great machine)may had several other encounters.
after all there was more than one whitestarIn one of the Episodes… I believe it’s “The Long Night,” Ivanova has been searching for the First Ones for a while, and has found all but one that Lorien said was out there to find. I remember because of a conversation Lorien and Ivanova were having that got interrupted by the last of the First Ones arriving. I can’t remember the exact quote, but it’s there. I also remember a comment on the Lurker’s Guide to B5 about Ivanova having to go back to the station for some reason before she goes back out because a scene between her and Lorien couldn’t be shot in the episode before and had to be re-shot in a weird sequence (in time on the show) and in that conversation they’re talking about going to find the First Ones as well… I think that’s Lorien’s “I am THE First One” quote.
Lorien’s only THE First One because he was the first sentient being in the universe… there are definitely more First Ones. At least 8 including Shadows and Vorlons–who are both several times stated to be First Ones. (And I’m pretty sure Ivanova and Lorien talk about finding the /other/ First Ones, too.)
The whole point of this is that Ivanova went and found them all with Lorien/Marcus in White Star number 1. Or whicever one she took. Give the girl credit where it’s due.
[This message has been edited by Kyrie (edited 01-27-2001).]
SPOILERS
for those who have not seen the final episode of Babylon 5…
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Beyond the Rim
At the end of that great episode Sleeping in Light we see that after Lorien’s healing force dissipates Sheridan does not die, but goes with him beyond the Rim (where the First Ones live) to be sustained by the energy there. Delenn believed he would return one day, but never does within her lifetime (so it would have to be after 2362-The Deconstruction of Falling Stars). It is said that the body of Entil’Z’ha Valen (Sinclair) was never found, so the same may have happened to him.Rex Quondam Rexque Futurus
J. Michael Straczinski is a big fan of Arthurian legend. I think Sheridan and Sinclair’s fate was inspired by the belief that King Arthur did not die at the Battle of Camlann, but is in suspended animation on the Isle of Avalon, and will return when the descendants of the Britons need him. “The Once and Future King.”A New Movie?
Back to B5, I can’t help but think we will see this return. It will be in the distant future after most of the Babylon 5/Crusade characters have died, but we will still have Sinclair, Sheridan, Kosh, Lorien, and maybe Marcus if the rumor of him being in a coma for centuries is actually true. I look forward to seeing a new film, after Legend of the Rangers that deals with the return from beyond the Rim.——————
What do you want?A: Order and obedience
B: Chaos and evolution
C: None of the above[This message has been edited by DalekTek790 (edited May 12, 2001).]
The First Ones were many however we know only a few
Vorlons
Shadows
Lorien
Walkers of Sigma 957
(There were also at least 3 others shown in ITF-if Zog is ones name then so be it)The Soul Hunters aren’t First Ones IIRC.
Where did the Ralgans come from DalekTek790 (was it from River of Souls)
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“No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by the force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power governments, and tyrants, and armies can not stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.” G’Kar (The Long Twilight Struggle)
Spike as Rachel – “Oh, how can I ever thank you, you mysterious black-clad hunk-of-a-knight thing?”
Spike as Angel -“No need, little lady. Your tears of gratitude are enough for me… You see… I was once a bad-ass vampire… but love — and a pesky curse — defanged me, and now, I’m just a BiiiiiiiGG FLUFF-Y PUPP-Y with BAD TEETH! No, not the hair… Never the hair…”
As Rachel – “But there must be some way I can show my appreciation…”
As Angel – “No, no… helping those in need’s my job… And working up a load of sexual frustration, and prancing away like a *magnificent poof* is *truly* thanks enough…”
As Rachel – “I understand… I have a nephew who’s gay, so…”
As Angel – “Say no more! Evil is still afoot… And I’m almost out of that Nancy-boy hair gel I like so much. Quickly! To the Angel-mobile! Away!” SpikeThis is the way I always understood it:
Lorien came first,
then the Watchers and other First Ones who showed up to help at Coriana 6,
then the Shadows and Vorlons,
then everyone else.So the Shadows and Vorlons aren’t as old as the other First Ones, but still older then the “younger races”.
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Gideon: I thought you said you don’t hold a grudge.
Galen: I don’t. I have no surviving enemies. At all.“I’d far rather be happy than right any day.”
“And are you?”
“No. That’s where it falls down, of course.”–Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy“It’s all in the mind.”–George Harrison
quote:
Originally posted by Catalina:
This is the way I always understood it:
Lorien came first,
then the Watchers and other First Ones who showed up to help at Coriana 6,
then the Shadows and Vorlons,
then everyone else.So the Shadows and Vorlons aren’t as old as the other First Ones, but still older then the “younger races”.
Not quite
Lorien was the first of the first ones
The Shadows were the second
Then the walkers of Sigma 957 and some of the others
Then the Vorlons (the Vorlons are quite young)
The the last FO found by Ivanova (Lorien says they are nearly as old as the Vorlons)——————
“No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by the force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power governments, and tyrants, and armies can not stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.” G’Kar (The Long Twilight Struggle)
Spike as Rachel – “Oh, how can I ever thank you, you mysterious black-clad hunk-of-a-knight thing?”
Spike as Angel -“No need, little lady. Your tears of gratitude are enough for me… You see… I was once a bad-ass vampire… but love — and a pesky curse — defanged me, and now, I’m just a BiiiiiiiGG FLUFF-Y PUPP-Y with BAD TEETH! No, not the hair… Never the hair…”
As Rachel – “But there must be some way I can show my appreciation…”
As Angel – “No, no… helping those in need’s my job… And working up a load of sexual frustration, and prancing away like a *magnificent poof* is *truly* thanks enough…”
As Rachel – “I understand… I have a nephew who’s gay, so…”
As Angel – “Say no more! Evil is still afoot… And I’m almost out of that Nancy-boy hair gel I like so much. Quickly! To the Angel-mobile! Away!” Spike
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