- This topic has 84 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 22 years, 7 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
I have just watched again the first episode ‘I Worship His Shadow’ and there are a couple of things I still don’t understand.
When one of the prisoners is killed and his flesh is put in a bag and dropped onto a conveyor belt, a big mouth is seen with moving projections that look a bit like teeth. Is this the mouth of the Giga-shadow, the growing insect body, or is it the mouth of the Lexx? I know that Lexx eats organic material and it did say that it got good food on the cluster.
The other thing is that just after Kai gets killed in the control pod of His Shadow’s craft, His Shadow picks up a piece of debris and says something like “Looks like an insect, curious”. What is the significance of this?
The organs went to the droid banks, or (possibly) the Lexx. As for the Insect technology, that means the Brunnen-G either stole Insect hardware or had an alliance with a faction of the Insects in the distant past.
——————
Lee P. Sherman, code name DalekTek790
Whovian, Froudian, Lexxian, etc.I am pretty sure that a lot of the “soft tissue” that was in demand went to feed the lexx. The lexx was storing up food (that means that when stan and xev ate the food the lexx provided—it was recycled–yetchhh!)
quote:
Originally posted by Lizard:
The lexx was storing up food (that means that when stan and xev ate the food the lexx provided—it was recycled–yetchhh!)
speaking as a vegetarian, parts is parts
the mouth seemed to be the central supply for the cluster as a whole, including the droids, the lexx (which presumably did not start out at that size, but grew and continues to grow or at least turnover its cells)…let us not forget the gigashadow as well as probably the administration/staff of the cluster…if you notice, noone ever eats real food in the first four movies, all the food seems to be “processed” and quite unrecognizable…the only real food you see is in gigerotta’s fantasy of the planet of milk fed boys, where you at least see some fruits and veggies on the platter along with the boy and the milk
…season 3 also had real food or at least recognizable food, especially on garden, and gametown…
as for the insect hull of kai’s ship, the ship was an antique leftover from the insect wars (remember in brigadoom when kai is trying to convince the elders that they need new weaponry and ships?) and may well have been technology stolen or adopted by the brunnen g during the insect wars… i got the impression that there originally was more information about the brunnen-g and the insect wars in some of the earlier episodes and movies that got edited out for time or whateverBut the organs (Moust of them) whent in to a big mouth that looked exacly as LEXX´s mouth!!!
I think that it was LEXX! (But some of it probobly whent eleswhere to!!!——————
I am the crusader
quote:
Originally posted by crusader:
But the organs (Moust of them) whent in to a big mouth that looked exacly as LEXX´s mouth!!!
I think that it was LEXX! (But some of it probobly whent eleswhere to!!!
hi crusader! long time no see! all right, i am going to rewatch IWHS and see if i can sort this out…meanwhile i wish to extend an invitation to aleck to fill us in on the insect war stuff, being as he/she has the dvd s with all the extra information on them
**The other thing is that just after Kai gets killed in the control pod of His Shadow’s craft, His Shadow picks up a piece of debris and says something like “Looks like an insect, curious”. What is the significance of this?**
I looked at it this way: “to the victor go the spoils.” Isn’t it customary for the winner of a war to take whatever the losers have left behind? The insect civilization’s technology, for example.
quote:
Originally posted by FX:
hi crusader! long time no see! all right, i am going to rewatch IWHS and see if i can sort this out…meanwhile i wish to extend an invitation to aleck to fill us in on the insect war stuff, being as he/she has the dvd s with all the extra information on them
Me? I’ve got DVDs with extra stuff on them, but that doesn’t automatically mean that I have anything on the Insect Wars.
Here’s my take on what HDS’s line meant: I think he was fairly surprised that the Brunnen-G were using an insect to attempt to kill an insect (HDS), and was remarking on the situation. Of course, this could have given him the plan to build the LEXX itself (I don’t know if HDS was using bio-engineered insects at this point in his career).–Aleck
Aleck: The ship HDS used to blow up Kai’s homeworld was an insect, it had a long bulbous body and those leg-like things that unfolded into its primary weapon
——————
What do you get when you multiply six by nine
quote:
Originally posted by Bean:
The ship HDS used to blow up Kai’s homeworld was an insect, it had a long bulbous body and those leg-like things that unfolded into its primary weapon
I have to disagree with that. The Fore Shadow is vaguely insectoid (really more echinodermatoid), but there is no trace of anything organic. It is metal and glass, whereas the Lexx and the Giga Shadow are flesh and chitin.
——————
“Exterminate!” -Dalek warrior, The Daleks: Episode 4-The Ambush
“Feel the power of the dark Crystal!” -skekTek the Scientist, The Dark Crystal
“I will love you forever!” -drone #790, Lexx 1.1: I Worship His Shadow
quote:
Originally posted by DalekTek790:
I have to disagree with that. The Fore Shadow is vaguely insectoid (really more echinodermatoid), but there is no trace of anything organic. It is metal and glass, whereas the Lexx and the Giga Shadow are flesh and chitin.
well, technically speaking, flesh is not a term usually used with insects as it is generally understood to relate to vertebrates and specifically, skeletal muscle…but since the lexx does seem to have a lot of pink pulpy stuff in it, and this is science FICTION, i guess we’ll let it pass
…i am not sure about classifying the fore shadow as echinodermatoid, but it sounds good 
I’ve just realized what the big mouth and the conveyor belt of body parts is all about. That is how they make kebabs.
At the beginning of this episode when the prison ships are about to land on the Cluster you can see Lexx from a distance. It doesn’t seem to have any conveyor belts leading up to it. Perhaps Lexx was fed while it was growing by something like an umbilicus connected to the protein bank. The big mouth was the beginning of the process of turning body parts into gloop.
quote:
Originally posted by robot791:
At the beginning of this episode when the prison ships are about to land on the Cluster you can see Lexx from a distance. It doesn’t seem to have any conveyor belts leading up to it. Perhaps Lexx was fed while it was growing by something like an umbilicus connected to the protein bank. The big mouth was the beginning of the process of turning body parts into gloop.
yup, i finally rewatched iwhs, and the conveyor does lead to a lexx mouth, but they refer repeatedly to protein banks, which seem to feed more than just the lexx
soylent green is people!
The organs in the movie are indeed being fed to the Lexx, but as others have noted, they are often used for other purposes as well (robot drones, feeding the Gigashadow, etc.).
The piece of insect craft picked up by His Divine Shadow was an antique leftover from the Insect Wars, apparently used by the Brunnen-G in the Dark Zone. It hasn’t been stated by the creators yet, but I suspect the creation of these craft was the Brunnen-G’s secret to defeating the Insect Civilization back then. Creating and using insect-based craft may have made the Brunnen-G harder to track or hit, while flying in and around the large space-going Insects of the Insect Civilization.
The Lexx was not the invention of His Divine Shadow, but was devised by the Heretics of the Reform Planets (of which the Astral B Heretics were members). The plans to create the Lexx were concealed in amino acid codes inside the tooth of Assistant Deputy Backup Courier Stanley Tweedle, of the Astral B. These codes (along with the codes to the Reform Planets’ defensive shields) fell into the hands of His Shadow when Stanley was captured by Sub-Nebulae Mercenaries. The codes were used by His Shadow to create the Lexx, and use the Heretics’ weapon against themselves.
It’s my theory that the Heretics derived the technology for the Lexx from the extinct Brunnen-G, the same tech the Brunnen-G used to develope their insect craft. The Heretics are plainly aware of the Brunnen-G’s history; Thodin knows about the Prophecy. Since, ordinarily, no one should know about the Prophecy except the Time Prophet, His Shadow, and any crew present when His Shadow killed Kai, the Heretics have apparently done quite a bit of homework. I suspect the Brunnen-G have become tragic heroes for the Heretics, their defiant last stand serving as an example for resisting the Divine Order.
Excellent posting, there, sgtdraino.
–Aleck
quote:
Originally posted by Aleck:
Excellent posting, there, sgtdraino.–Aleck
ditto, the brunnen g are the only civilization who mounted a successful rebellion against the insects as far as we know, it makes sense that the heretics would follow their tactics much like aspiring socialists revere che guevara! thx sgtd!
Do you think that the Brunnen-G or the Heretics were aware that His Divine Shadow is an insect consciousness in a human host?
At the beginning of the second series is an explanation of how one insect survived, later passing its consciousness into a human. Over thousands of years the insect gained more and more control of humanity. This would be a great idea for a spin-off series.
It also grew an insect body “fed by human flesh gathered from 20,000 unsuspecting planets all unknowingly enslaved to their enemy”.
If the Brunnen-G were unaware that HDS was an insect consciousness then perhaps it would be interesting and ironic that they used insect technology (museum exhibits?) to try to defeat HDS.
The mouth you see in IWHS is the Lexx’s, he is fed the juiciest bits of criminals after their useful organs have been removed for use in drones.
Not to complicate or contradict anyone… what I got out of some interviews with the creators of IWHS and from watching everything is this:
Insects and humans met. Fought. BrunnenG defeated them by using the insects habit of logic and method against them as weaknesses. Insects were force evolved into mindless machines by the victorious BrunnenG. These insects were no longer sentient beings but when combined with technology (as shown by the Stingers in the beginning of IWHS) they are useful as vehicles and weapons. The remaining insect survivor does not know this as he/she/it is buried in what will become the Cluster. HDS grows in power. His enslavement of humanity has caused him to have access to the creation of vast weapons of mass destruction (most notably using the blacksheet energy, which seems to occur natually for HDS or from his cloak?). Perhaps instinctively, HDS has the Forshadow designed in a style remeniscent of insect or biological forms, but the Forshadow is indeed a machine. Impressive, but mechanical. They use it to destroy Brunnis 2. Kai’s Stinger is the only one not vaporized by blacksheets while attacking the Foreshadow and serves as a sampling of spaceflight/weapon technology that HDS can capture. Over the thousands of years that follow Brunnis 2’s destruction, HDS and the Divine Order are still trying to harness the technology of the living being with machine components. They have robotic drones with human bodies and they have a ship called the MegaShadow which appears organic but is not truly alive. The Divine Order has still yet failed to crack the essence of the problem until (as sgtdraino suggested) they capture the Lexx’s emino acids from the Ostral B heretics (which was a great point, thank you). Then the Divine Order creates the Lexx, fed by the meat of thousands of enslaved humans.
An interesting note: the Lexx is still nowhere near the final result that the BrunnenG had. The Stingers show technology melded to organics in a clean and styled manner without exposed guts. the Lexx and its moths seem to be far more primitive attempts that fail to mask the guts and slime and flech & blood of the organic parts, as most things would if they were evolved enough to consider stylizing for ergonomics and aesthetic appeal.
Yes. I’m obsessed with this stuff. I love IWHS’s accomplishments in design and conceptualizing. I find it more successful than the rest of Lexx in this aspect. Whoever came up with the blacksheet weapons took the classic “death-ray” to a very interesting new level and the BrunnenG ships and the Foreshadow are brilliant science fiction concepts executed with great visual flare. I like it so much I wish I had thought of it first.
-Jace
quote
Insects and humans met. Fought. BrunnenG defeated them by using the insects habit of logic and method against them as weaknesses. Insects were force evolved into mindless machines by the victorious BrunnenG. These insects were no longer sentient beings but when combined with technology (as shown by the Stingers in the beginning of IWHS) they are useful as vehicles and weapons.
Force evolved?
quote
They use it to destroy Brunnis 2. Kai’s Stinger is the only one not vaporized by blacksheets while attacking the Foreshadow
The ‘blacksheet’ weapon was generated by the web of the foreshadow. The Brunnen-G Stingers were taken out by point defence lasers.
quote
they have a ship called the MegaShadow which appears organic but is not truly alive.
The megashadow was not organic, it was a ship like any other, insectiodal in shape.
at the risk of getting totally flamed here, especially since cat has been involved much longer with lexx than i have, i am not sure how much of what has been said is pure speculation, albeit intriguing…what i have gotten is admittedly only from the films and the seasons, and some interviews…the insect wars have been referred to as a great battle that was ultimately won by the brunnen g…i assumed that in the dark zone, the insects had evolved in intellect and size to actually begin fighting other races for domination…their ‘machines’ were organic in that they were ‘drone insects’ or worker bees if you will, melded with technology to serve specific uses and for the greater good of the insect colony as a whole, as insects tend to work…the stingers that kai and the others used were either captured insect technology, or adopted technology hence hds remark “insect, interesting” when he picks up the piece of the stinger…and although the brunnen g ‘won the war’ remnants of the insect race would persist, such as the insect essence of hds, and the technology, especially for genetically engineered ‘insects’ like the lexx, as well as the insect desire to control the other races…why insects evolving? well, who hasn’t swatted a mosquito or chased a roach, or been scared silly by other crawlies, and wondered if there weren’t some malignant intelligence behind the little beasties?
, just some thoughts guys, flame awayBrigadoom and Stans Trial are two very important episodes for this explaination.
What I took from (Brigadoom) this episode was similar to the Taelons in EFC(Earth Final Conflict) and several other Sci-Fi Fics. That when a race becomes immortal they become stagnant. Unable to evolve any further etc….
I believe SGT is completely correct. After the insect war the BrunnenG could *not* adapt. Thats why they were using outdated and extremely inneffective insects against an insect that had evolved its technology much further since the war.
In “Stans Trial” Kai defends Stan calling him a “Tainted Hero”. Clearly to me this was a precursor to learning that Kai himself had been tried once very similarly. In fact after rewatching this episode I really think that Kai was mostly referring to his own trial when defending and his insistance that justice be served albeit meaning Stans death. Thats not important but Id thought Id throw it in there
Kais trial showed just how intolerant and stagnant the BrunnenG had become. So when Kai gathered the other newborns they were forced to use the old technology and ships from the insects war.
Sgtdraino explaination is what Ive always believed as well. When you are fighting an enemy and getting your ass kicked the way humans were, you adapt or die.
Against insects conventional weapons dont seem to work. Lexx ate a 20 someodd megaton nuke like it was a hot chili. Lexx may or may not be a good example of an insect during the war. Its the most powerful thing in the two universes but then again, no other insects are around. And it was designed by humans not the Insects. The only way a human could of designed a weapon like the Lexx was to have had some pretty good experience with it.
Therefore I think Humans had to have used insect tech to win. And thats also why Kai is flying an insect, because the BrunnenG hadent evolved since and most seemed so mild so welcome to death that Im sure military buildup and evolution hadent been an issue since the war.
Just my opinion, something fun to speculate until/if the truth is ever revealed.
[This message has been edited by LexxLurker (edited August 20, 2001).]
quote:
Originally posted by Jace:
Not to complicate or contradict anyone… what I got out of some interviews with the creators of IWHS and from watching everything is this:Insects and humans met. Fought. BrunnenG defeated them by using the insects habit of logic and method against them as weaknesses. Insects were force evolved into mindless machines by the victorious BrunnenG. These insects were no longer sentient beings but when combined with technology (as shown by the Stingers in the beginning of IWHS) they are useful as vehicles and weapons. The remaining insect survivor does not know this as he/she/it is buried in what will become the Cluster. HDS grows in power. -Jace
It never occurred to me that the planetoid that the insect buried itself in eventually became the Cluster. I always assumed that the scientist that the insect entered went back to his home planet and HDS’s attempt to dominate humanity started from there.
Does this mean that the insect body grew into the Megashadow? It seems to fit.
Rockham.
The Insect body did not grow into the Mega Shadow. The Mega Shadow was a conventional space ship, a modification of the Fore Shadow. I believe we are meant to assume (Mantrid) that the Insect body grew into the Giga Shadow. It would make sense it it became Fore, then Mega, then Giga, but I doubt the first two are related to the Insect, since they don’t look organic and the second one was blown up before we saw the third.
——————
Lee P. Sherman, code name DalekTek790
Whovian, Froudian, Lexxian, etc.The megashadow looks insectoid in shape but not in material to me, and the thing the Brunnnin-G attacked in the beginning of IWHS looked like a modified web (like in The Web/The Net)
Incedentally, the idea of using genetically modified insects has been tossed around by several physicists interested in spaceflight (in the far future, of course)
Only the Web didn’t have a weapon like the other thing (maybe it was an option).
Just to wrap things up; You see Lexx’s mouth in Eating Pattern and it looks the same, and remember that in the beginning of the movies Lexx says that the food was good on the Cluster and they show the conveyer belt again?
The thing the Brunnen-G were fighting was called the Fore Shadow. The Mega Shadow looks very similar (like a big metal sea cucumber) so I figure it’s just a modified version of the original ship. I don’t see any indication of Insect technology or organic components in either.
——————
Lee P. Sherman, code name DalekTek790
Whovian, Froudian, Lexxian, etc.The Foreshadow was basically their first attempt at a planet-destroying weapon, based on an technique that seems native to the insects (since HDS used the same energy to attack Kai at the end of IWHS).
The Foreshadow was pretty much a large weapon with a small control module, fairly delicate and needing several shots to destroy a planet. The Megashadow was a larger vessel with more capacity, more robust design and space inside for a squadron of support vehicles. The web/arms that are used to generate the ‘blacksheet’ attack could also be retracted while not in use.
The gigashadow was the original body of the shadow essence, the last surviving insect, which was carefully nurtured beneath the surface of the cluster over thousands of years, waiting for the rebirth.
quote:
Originally posted by LexxLurker:
Brigadoom and Stans Trial are two very important episodes for this explaination.agreed, these are some of the episodes i was referring to where we get snippets of information regarding insects and brunnen-g
What I took from (Brigadoom) this episode was similar to the Taelons in EFC(Earth Final Conflict) and several other Sci-Fi Fics. That when a race becomes immortal they become stagnant. Unable to evolve any further etc….
complacency breeds stagnation…there is no longer any imperative to evolve because you believe you have no further need to evolve or change, hence stagnation…
I believe SGT is completely correct. After the insect war the BrunnenG could *not* adapt. Thats why they were using outdated and extremely inneffective insects against an insect that had evolved its technology much further since the war.
Kais trial showed just how intolerant and stagnant the BrunnenG had become. So when Kai gathered the other newborns they were forced to use the old technology and ships from the insects war.
Sgtdraino explaination is what Ive always believed as well. When you are fighting an enemy and getting your ass kicked the way humans were, you adapt or die.
Therefore I think Humans had to have used insect tech to win. And thats also why Kai is flying an insect, because the BrunnenG hadent evolved since and most seemed so mild so welcome to death that Im sure military buildup and evolution hadent been an issue since the war.
Just my opinion, something fun to speculate until/if the truth is ever revealed.
exactly, thank you both…i do have one small niggling clarification which i probably missed in your post;i still think the lexx, and the gigashadow are modified insects designed/bred by human(oids)who were either tainted by the insect essence, or with actual insect genes tweezered into their humanoid complement…maybe like a reverse transcriptase virus, which actually alters the dna of the host…again, i have tried to follow whatever tidbits we have been given, so i don’t really have hard proof about how the insects are still affecting behavior millenia after their suppposed destruction…thanx again lexxlurker, fx
[This message has been edited by LexxLurker (edited August 20, 2001).]
I think that the views on the Foreshadow and the Megashadow were completely man-made are correct, and the Megashadow couldn’t have evolved into the Gigashadow so quickly, as it was around only days or weeks before the emergence of the Gigashadow.
BTW, I’m not sure that the Gigashadow was the last remaining evil insect alive, did anyone ever figure out what the big spidery web thing that attacked Lexx and Stan was?, it seemed like another insect and seemed almost as large as the Gigashadow.
Squishy——————
Annoyed Squishy
quote:
Originally posted by Annoyed Squishy:
I think that the views on the Foreshadow and the Megashadow were completely man-made are correct, and the Megashadow couldn’t have evolved into the Gigashadow so quickly, as it was around only days or weeks before the emergence of the Gigashadow.BTW, I’m not sure that the Gigashadow was the last remaining evil insect alive, did anyone ever figure out what the big spidery web thing that attacked Lexx and Stan was?, it seemed like another insect and seemed almost as large as the Gigashadow.
Squishy
I alway figured <i.Lexx 1.4[/i] took place about a year after Lexx 1.1. Anyway, the Mega Shadow couldn't have grown since it was blown up by the Lexx's ocular parabola at the end of 1.1. I believe the Fore/Mega Shadow was human-made, the Giga Shadow was Insect-made, and the Lexx is a human-Insect joint. I've written more on this under "Divine Order technology."
Nets aren't Insects. They're arachnids with two components: the "Spider" and the "Web." Whatever the Nets are (were), the Lexx was programmed to avoid them, so we assume the Insects were afraid of them. Maybe they were an enemy in the Insect Wars. On the other hand, it's only natural for bugs to fear spiders.
——————
Lee P. Sherman, code name DalekTek790
Whovian, Froudian, Lexxian, etc.Originally posted by DalekTek790:
I alway figured <i.Lexx 1.4[/i] took place about a year after Lexx 1.1. Anyway, the Mega Shadow couldn't have grown since it was blown up by the Lexx's ocular parabola at the end of 1.1. I believe the Fore/Mega Shadow was human-made, the Giga Shadow was Insect-made, and the Lexx is a human-Insect joint. I've written more on this under "Divine Order technology."Nets aren't Insects. They're arachnids with two components: the "Spider" and the "Web." Whatever the Nets are (were), the Lexx was programmed to avoid them, so we assume the Insects were afraid of them. Maybe they were an enemy in the Insect Wars. On the other hand, it's only natural for bugs to fear spiders.
That's really cool, a enemy even more sinister than the insects, pity we didn't see more of them.
Do you know what I love to see happen (maybe in a movie), the actual insect wars, seeing the Brunnen G and human fighting the arachnids and insects, wow, that would be as cool as the borg at Wolf 359.
And it would put the CGI guy's to the test, it's a shame we may never get to see that relived, it would do for Lexx what it did for Star Trek.
Squishy——————
Annoyed SquishyHey, maybe in the Insect Wars there weren’t just the humans and the Insects. Maybe there were the Arachnids and the Crustaceans and the Echinoderms and the Cœlentrates and the Cephalopods and the Nematodes and…man, I’d love to write for Lexx!
“Many years ago, my people led humanity to victory in the war against the Centipede civilization. The legends said several segments escaped the genocide…”
——————
Lee P. Sherman, code name DalekTek790
Whovian, Froudian, Lexxian, etc.
quote:
Originally posted by DalekTek790:
Hey, maybe in the Insect Wars there weren’t just the humans and the Insects. Maybe there were the Arachnids and the Crustaceans and the Echinoderms and the Cœlentrates and the Cephalopods and the Nematodes and…man, I’d love to write for Lexx!“Many years ago, my people led humanity to victory in the war against the Centipede civilization. The legends said several segments escaped the genocide…”
LOL, maybe the insect wars were just remembered because everbody thought eww, insects!!!
Whereas the Lobster and Crab wars were far worse, but the good thing was that after their defeat, nobody went hungry in the universe again!!!
Like someone similar to Dr Zoidberg from Futurama was the lobster version of HDS, and humanity was left with the humiliating prospostion of clearing up their crab infestation.
But seriously, I think if those arachnid webs had been involved at some point, then humanity would have had some battle on it’s hands.
Squishy——————
Annoyed SquishyFound something interesting on S2V2 DVD
About 8minutes in Michael McManus in his Kai costume says to the interviewer:
“The Brunnen culture came to the Light Universe and conquered the insects. Then they proceeded to domestic the insects. Something very typical of the Light Universe. Even Kais weapon is a result of that adaptation”
If he’s right guess that answers that question
Of course the writers dont always fill in the actors but sounds good to meBy 8 minutes in I mean into the Rated Lexx segment on the Acorn Media DVDs.
Of course this again raises the question Why did HDS seem so surprised? Maybe he though all insect technology was in his hands only. Dunno personally.
Sorry for the double post. My PW isnt working and cant edit unless registered
quote:
Originally posted by *LexxLurker*:
By 8 minutes in I mean into the Rated Lexx segment on the Acorn Media DVDs.Of course this again raises the question Why did HDS seem so surprised? Maybe he though all insect technology was in his hands only. Dunno personally.
Sorry for the double post. My PW isnt working and cant edit unless registered
I don’t think HDS was surprised, just remarking on the irony of the situation, Human’s in insects attacking an Insect in a Human…can’t be more ironical than that!!!
Squishy——————
Annoyed Squishy
quote:
Originally posted by *LexxLurker*:
Of course this again raises the question Why did HDS seem so surprised? Maybe he though all insect technology was in his hands only. Dunno personally.
I think that the posting by Jace earlier in this thread gives the most probable answer:
“Insects were force evolved into mindless machines by the victorious BrunnenG. These insects were no longer sentient beings but when combined with technology (as shown by the Stingers in the beginning of IWHS) they are useful as vehicles and weapons. The remaining insect survivor does not know this as he/she/it is buried in what will become the Cluster.”
So it looks like the stingers were insects evolved into machine like creatures, HDS was surprised to discover this.
We also learn that the last surviving insect continued to grow within the planetoid to become the Giga-Shadow. I am sure that the mouth seen in IWHS was that of the growing insect body/Giga-Shadow.
Rockham.
——————
You see what you miss if you don’t stay alert?
quote:
Originally posted by LexxLurker:
“The Brunnen culture came to the Light Universe and conquered the insects. Then they proceeded to domestic the insects. Something very typical of the Light Universe. Even Kais weapon is a result of that adaptation”
That can’t be serious, because the Kai’s scorpion hook was not from his Brunnen-G body. It was given to him by the bio-scholars, people who naturally work with Insect technology.
Stingers aren’t true Insects. They’re Insect tissue grafted onto a metallic framework. Stingers and the like aren’t true organisms, just organic technology.
For all we know, the Insects themselves were a slave race that turned on their human masters. We have very little information on the Insect Wars, and no idea how they started. It’s even possible (though doubtful) the humans created the Insects in the first place.
——————
Lee P. Sherman, code name DalekTek790
Whovian, Froudian, Lexxian, etc.wow – what a hot topic! Quick question: If you were to feed Lexx, would you bother to bag it all up first like they show in the first episodes? Weird. Also, I think the the anti-divine shadow guys did know he was insect and that is why the amino acids were being transported in Stan’s tooth. They had hoped to build their own Lexx to battle the divine shadow with. Perhaps old science info guarded from the orignal insect wars. Perhaps the stingers were originally created to sneak up closer to the home planet or something and not evolved after.
It seems that the divine shadows did not know what the giga shadow was going to be a big giant bug and when the HDS saw the tech of the stinger, thought it would be grand to have to have a giant bug ship which he controlled. Kind of like being an insect again for him, but with the convience of still having his human form.
quote:
Originally posted by Holly:
wow – what a hot topic! Quick question: If you were to feed Lexx, would you bother to bag it all up first like they show in the first episodes? Weird. Also, I think the the anti-divine shadow guys did know he was insect and that is why the amino acids were being transported in Stan’s tooth. They had hoped to build their own Lexx to battle the divine shadow with. Perhaps old science info guarded from the orignal insect wars. Perhaps the stingers were originally created to sneak up closer to the home planet or something and not evolved after.
It seems that the divine shadows did not know what the giga shadow was going to be a big giant bug and when the HDS saw the tech of the stinger, thought it would be grand to have to have a giant bug ship which he controlled. Kind of like being an insect again for him, but with the convience of still having his human form.
Holly, I don’t think even the heretics knew of HDS’s real persona, I think that like the rest of humanity they had assumed all insect life had gone after the wars, this would have been propaganda to use against HDS, and the human race would have overthrown him as their leader if they knew of his real purposes.
If the heretics knew of HDS, then they would have realised the Lexx would be incapable of destroying him, as they would probably assume that he was a lot more powerful than a man.
Also it would seem that HDS and his predecessors were aware of the Giga Shadow, as all the giga shadow was, was a body to house the insect essence, and the insect essence that passed through them all knew what the giga shadow was and what it was for.
Anyway, thanx holly for posting, we love new theories on this board!!!
Squishy——————
Squishydid the brunnen-g fight the insects in the
light or dark zone?
quote:
Originally posted by siglum sans password:
did the brunnen-g fight the insects in the
light or dark zone?
oh dear (fx sighs and fidgets) more password problems? let me try again( i thrive on defeat by mindless machines)…anyway, siggy, i thought the brunnen-g defeated the insects in the dark zone, but since you brought it up i am no longer sure…did they leave the dark zone for the light zone because their sun was going supernova, and then encounter the insects, or vice versa? any ideas guys?
quote:
Originally posted by FX:
oh dear (fx sighs and fidgets) more password problems? let me try again( i thrive on defeat by mindless machines)…anyway, siggy, i thought the brunnen-g defeated the insects in the dark zone, but since you brought it up i am no longer sure…did they leave the dark zone for the light zone because their sun was going supernova, and then encounter the insects, or vice versa? any ideas guys?
Hmmm, not an easy one to answer, I would have thought the Dark Zone for two reasons, maybe Brunnis was still around and that HDS chose the light for his plans because he would want to distance himself from any direct link to the insect civilization.
And they do say the Dark Zone is a place of evil.
On a sepertate note, I think the theory of time beginning again is looking less likely, it seems that normal flow of time has continued, and that all the DO stuff on earth comes from the superassassin or maybe some higher form from the Divine Order.
Squishy——————
SquishyNow this is a good subject for debate.
Personally I had assumed the war *started* in the Dark Universe and carried over to the Light Universe where the bugs were defeated.
My assumption comes from a great many quotes.
1) Kai claims that the Dark Universe is mostly evil *BUT* there are a few planets that are worth it and good.
This is why I think the war started in the Dark Universe. Its not humanity that defeated the insects it was the Brunnen culture. This suggests that it indeed began in the Dark universe where the Brunnens were the only race man or woman enough to face the bugs.
However logically there is no way 1 planet defeated the bug empire when the Light Universe is cluttered with humanity. So when the Brunnen retreated into the Light Universe they found many races willing to enter into the war against the Bugs. So much in the way our world works today there is clear leaders even in coalition.
I dont wish to offend anyones race or culture but I need to use this for an example:
Most people at least in N.America claim the US defeated Germany in WW2 when we all know the truth is the Allies defeated the Axis powers.
But the Allies didnt drop atomic weapons, Americans did. And the Brunnen had domesticated insects, whereas humanity probably didnt have that technology. Although in Kais(Michael McManus) interview he claims the insects were domesticated after the war.
And the Axis wasent all enemies since Germany turned on Russia and became an Allied faction. So you can see why the lines become blurred. It would be interesting to find that perhaps there was a faction of insects that helped humanity and vice-versa. Since this was a war of genocide I doubt it though.
So you get the Universe saying “Brunnen was the culture behind the insects defeat”
where the truth would be that humanity defeated the insects, led by the Brunnen.
They really outta make a prequel movie-series if they have the resources or even want to. Id wager they can really hit a huge audience with it as well.
Who wouldent want to see an epic that involves the greatest war in mankind that spans 2 universes and the sexxy saviour
Brunnen culture?
quote:
Originally posted by LexxLurker:
Personally I had assumed the war *started* in the Dark Universe and carried over to the Light Universe where the bugs were defeated.My assumption comes from a great many quotes.[/B
But you only give us one…
quote:
1) Kai claims that the Dark Universe is mostly evil *BUT* there are a few planets that are worth it and good.
This is why I think the war started in the Dark Universe. Its not humanity that defeated the insects it was the Brunnen culture. This suggests that it indeed began in the Dark universe where the Brunnens were the only race man or woman enough to face the bugs.
[/B
Kai never says, however, that the Insect Wars started in the Dark Zone, or took place in the Dark Zone at any time. Remember, the Brunnen-G originated in the Dark Zone, but moved because of the threat of a supernova destroying the planet. If the Insect War was taking place, chances are that they wouldn’t just pack up and move to another planet in another universe in the midst of it. And, if they did, the insects would most likely *not* follow them, and instead just take over the whole of the Dark Zone. It would be like the Brunnen-G giving up without a fight.
quote
However logically there is no way 1 planet defeated the bug empire when the Light Universe is cluttered with humanity.[/quote]
We don’t know how large or how far-reaching the Insect Wars were, though. We don’t know how many insects were involved, how large their civilization was, etc. The Brunnen-G culture *could* have relied on other planets, but it’s never said. And anyway, that doesn’t have any relation to whether or not the wars began in the Dark Zone.
quote
And the Axis wasent all enemies since Germany turned on Russia and became an Allied faction.
No, this isn’t true. Germany invaded Russia, who were part of the Allied forces. Germany was always part of the Axis. Russia was not considered a serious threat until after WWII, and Germany’s invasion was not something that neccessarily curried favor among the allies.
–Aleck
Aleck:
Ill try to be more thorough in the future
Yeah Russia had signed a non-aggression pact with Germany, when Germany couldent carry out Operation Sealion they then turned and attacked Russia breaking their pact. Russia was considered a threat during WW2, Patton for one outright said so before he died shortly after the war. Was it true though? False? No one can be positive about motives. The truth is we dont know everything about WW2. No one does. Typically it takes several hundred years to get to the real truths. The problem is 99% of the population believes the standard lines which arent very thorough and sometimes outright lies. The remaining 1% is mostly filled with nonsense but somewhere within that group, a few collaborating stories do know the truth. It’s nothing new, the Romans were famous for it, when the histories of the conquered cultures were discovered we found whole new stories that had been omitted from Roman records. But it really doesent matter for my example, either way I dont profess to be a WW2 expert which is also why I hoped no one would be offended before I talked about it. The analogy albeit flawed was meant to give people somewhat of a real world issue to see how factions and indivial cultures/countries are 2 different things. That was my only point in that analogy, not my historical memory sorry about that
I didnt really think to get into too specific of details. As for the lack of quotes I was being general and only supporting one quote to keep an opinion from becoming a book. And only my theories, which can be quite whacky, I dont expect anyone else to jump on my wagon
The other things since you asked are things like the portal we see in the original movies. Maybe it was explained but I dont remember. Why build a portal to the Dark Universe? Or perhaps it was something left over from the great insect wars. Perhaps the main portal that was used for the invasion? Who knows, thus my consipricy grows. Also from the original movies we see the Dark Universe Brunnen culture which has some of the most advanced technology that we’ve seen in Lexx period.
Again, why did the Brunnen leave the Dark Universe to look for a planet just because of their star? Why not just change solar systems. Id assume it’d be easier.
HDS in Mantrid also knows exactly how to get to the Dark Universe without using a portal. Again this isnt explained why he would know that unless he had to use it in the past. Before the portals perhaps back in the Dark Universe.
Things like this are what also caused me to think what I do
Naturally I could be wrong, I expect to be, thats another great aspect of Lexx its unpredictability.My whole point was that it would be really cool if there was a prequel so I dont go off on my wild theories
[This message has been edited by LexxLurker (edited August 30, 2001).]
A prequel, I would second that, Lexx is so rich in it’s history, it would be a real shame if it wasn’t explored.
There seems to be plenty of material for a prequel, also we wouldn’t lose everybody in a prequel, Kai would still be around for that, although you couldn’t Lexx anymore, but seeing as the movies were known more as Tales from a Parallel Universe than as Lexx, it shouldn’t cause too much confusion.
Also I think if the approach was different, then it would work well, what I mean is I think many people are off put by Lexx’s humour and sexual observations, if a prequel just portrayed the legends as a serious set of events, then those people would be attracted to Lexx.
They probably would be left with a hunger to find out what happens after the prequel(s), I think Lexx has the capability to build itself into a modern myth in the same way Star Wars has, due to the richness of it’s past.
And at the same time it would be considered as eye-candy for those who love to see talented CGI work on a grand scale, I mean the Insect wars would be a brillant event to see played out in CGI.
I hope that after Mr D, Mr H and Mr Gigeroff lay down their writing tools and have a much needed break, that they consider returning to the Lexx universe.
Squishy——————
SquishyI think that the Time Prophet (beginning of Gigashadow?) said that the Brunnin-G “Led humanity to victory in the Insect wars”.
-Wild speculation-
Maybe the insects attacked the early human settlers of the Light Universe before moving on to the Dark Zone where there were more humans. Assuming human life started on earth, and then spread across the rest of the Dark Zone, and then to the Light Universe when they discovered the fractal core.
quote:
Originally posted by LexxLurker:
Aleck:Ill try to be more thorough in the future
Yeah Russia had signed a non-aggression pact with Germany, when Germany couldent carry out Operation Sealion they then turned and attacked Russia breaking their pact.
You’re absolutely right. I wasn’t thinking about the non-agression pact, and was merely thinking about the generalized historical view of the Allies (G.Britain, US, USSR) and the Axis (Germany, Italy, Japan) powers, and thought you were saying that Germany was an ally of the aforementioned group at a point during WWII (we won’t get into the trade issues that went on with both sides before we got personally involved).
quote
The analogy albeit flawed was meant to give people somewhat of a real world issue to see how factions and indivial cultures/countries are 2 different things. That was my only point in that analogy, not my historical memory sorry about that
No apology needed. I was thinking in generalities, and you in specifics, and we both passed, like ships in the night.
Whatever that means.quote
The other things since you asked are things like the portal we see in the original movies. Maybe it was explained but I dont remember. Why build a portal to the Dark Universe?
It’s been a while since I’ve watched the first movies, but was a portal actually *built*, or was it just a location in space? I was under the impression that it was merely an intersection, and was the only one known of by the majority of the populace.
quote
Also from the original movies we see the Dark Universe Brunnen culture which has some of the most advanced technology that we’ve seen in Lexx period.
I agree, but I don’t think that any of it falls under what we expect of the Brunnen-G as far as technology goes. Nothing looks like it’s been derived from insects, whereas their Brunnen-2 technology is very insectile (the Stingers, etc.).
quote
Again, why did the Brunnen leave the Dark Universe to look for a planet just because of their star? Why not just change solar systems. Id assume it’d be easier.
Well, as has been said, the Dark Zone is filled with depravity and evil (though there are some worthwhile planets). The quickest solution may have been to go through the portal into the Light Universe, rather than do as the LEXX crew and hop around from planet to planet, looking for a home. The main reason that I don’t believe that it started in the Dark Zone is down to this. If the Brunnen-G civilization had left Brunnis-1 *because* of the threat posed by the insects, they wouldn’t have the reputation of being the romantic warriors that they were (actually, they would have been known as the schmucks that led the insects into the Light Universe). It would have been like turning one’s tail and fleeing. The insects, on the other hand, would have been acting in utter stupidity if they followed them into the Light Universe, as it would seem to be going against the whole point of the war. They would have driven out the Brunnen-G menace and could take over the Dark Zone unhindered.
quote
HDS in Mantrid also knows exactly how to get to the Dark Universe without using a portal. Again this isnt explained why he would know that unless he had to use it in the past. Before the portals perhaps back in the Dark Universe.
Well, there’s my semantic quibble with this…HDS isn’t in “Mantrid,” it’s merely Kai acting on the agenda imprinted on his psyche by the small amount of insect essence he’d absorbed. As he said, Kai was never HDS. And I’d trust his opinion.
But anyway, both HDS (through his several incarnations) and Kai (through absorbing the memories of HDS) have an immense amount of knowledge taken from innumerable human hosts. It’s possible that the knowledge of intersections in the fabric of space is something one of them picked up (Kai, by absorption, or HDS, through millenia of reign).Sorry if I came across pretty strong in my previous missive. No offense intended. I was just curious about what else convinced you that the IW started in the DZ.
–Aleck
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.