- This topic has 8 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 20 years, 10 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Quote for the user agreement at Sadgeezer.com:
“By providing any Content to our web site:
(a) you agree to grant to us a worldwide, royalty-free, perpetual, non-exclusive right and license (including any moral rights or other necessary rights) to use, display, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, distribute, perform, promote, archive, translate, and to create derivative works and compilations, in whole or in part. Such license will apply with respect to any form, media, technology known or later developed:…..”
——————————————————————————-
Now one thing that always bothered me about posting on the web had to do with relinquishing all your rights to your own work; by simply posting on the Sadboard (for example – and I know the word “non-exclusive” is in there). I see members posting written works and art works when it seems plainly obvious that they do not know the risks involved. Would Sadgeezer.com challenge a copyright application of a submitted work – for example? Was this a “form” letter type of agreement and does the owner of Sadgeezer.com agree with it or is that person disposed to an informal declaration of the status of content on this web site? Content at Sadgeezer.com was touched upon by myself last year but the actual status of submitted works was never really discussed by the owners/administrators of this site. I feel that all members here understand what they agreed to when they submit content to this site. As such; I have posted this query in “The Pub”. I await your reply…..
Maurice
No reply…..well that is a reply in itself. I am not here to pick on Sadgeezer himself (as all web sites are similar in nature in this respect); but just to ask the questions that all Sadgeezers should understand when they contribute to the fabric of this site. More disturbing; is the apathy of my fellow Sadgeezers in this thread – Has our society given up all ideas of personal property?
I find is saddening that the only time intellectual property issues raise it’s head is when a web site finds it’s stuff being used on a foreign site. Human rights must always supersede any other intangible entity’s rights. We “Humans” are in charge…..remember. We get so used to clicking a button to agree to terms that nobody ever reads, that we forget that we have any rights at all….. Visa, Mastercard, Corporations and other non-human “legal entities” have no power if we refuse to acknowledge them. You can say “no”, you can say : ” I have changed my mind”. You have the power to say no – or to agree and challenge what you agreed to (but the entities do not like you to do this…..).
The cowardice of my fellow human beings appalls me. Listen, seven years ago I was was forced to lobby against my government on a new set of laws I considered an affront to our rights. I took it upon myself to get into an argument with our Justice Minister (here in Canada). Not only did I argue with him, but I gave him my name and address as I did not fear my government. So – what did happen to me? Well our Royal Canadian Mounted Police followed me around the whole weekend…..big deal. They also opened a file on me (I had a friend in the RCMP who showed me the file) . I am still here….. When was the last time you fought for an issue you considered important? When did you lay it on the line? No? Are you ashamed – do you feel that you are a good citizen?
I truly fear for the future of the human race. Is Sadgeezer going to put bamboo shoots under my finger nails for posting this query? Will my posts mysteriously disappear…..Oh…..the horror….. Don’t be afraid to question; don’t be afraid to push back – it is a good feeling!
Maurice
Sounds like standard release boilerplate to me FatGuy. I think it’s not so much to lay claim to the work of the posters, as to protect the site legally from accusations regarding the use others may make of a poster’s materials.
The whole intellectual property issue is a slithering can of worms 😕 On days when I have a lot of energy (that’s few and far between) I might even be willing to get into a debate about it–at the risk of being thrown out of the pub for boring the customers to death. 😉
Not nice being followed by the RCMP. But it could have been worse, just think if your name were David Nelson instead of FatGuy:
Re: the human race. What future? 😈
elmey
You know what Elmey – I give up!!!!! Last year I went through dramatics to show the kids why we need and cherish our rights and freedoms – but they just do not get it. I give up.
So it occurred to me that the problem may be me….. so I will turn this discussion around and question why I feel the need to bark at the erosion of rights in our society. The obvious analysis from those that know me is that I am a minority and that if I was not; I would have become part of the establishment, taking advantage of the apathy of the masses for my own personal gain. However, being outside of this loop, I can only rebel against it, rights and freedoms being the only defense against the establishment’s ability to create new onerous laws – So there you have it. This is all my problem. Now you all can sleep better at night.
Yet…..I still think that some kid from China or some other closed society, will read this post at some illegal internet cafe and laugh his head off. But I will never know as he would not dare to post a reply. You don’t know what you have until you lose it – But wait…..the Chinese guy never had it and regrets not having it (remember what happened in the square…..). Why am I typing this out now…..I have to go to bed…..
Maurice
Intellectual property rights, as you probably remember, is a topic that fascinates me, and this is a very interesting discussion. However I’ve held off from posting because I didn’t want to speculate. Interesting points both Fatguy and Elmey; when I can think of something to add that’s more substantial or moderately intelligent then I will post on this subject again. 😛
“Of all the things I’ve lost in life, it seems I miss my mind the most.”
Fatguy wrote:You know what Elmey – I give up!!!!! Last year I went through dramatics to show the kids why we need and cherish our rights and freedoms – but they just do not get it. I give up
OK, let’s see if this will jumpstart a discussion on intellectual property rights:
June 17, 2003 | WASHINGTON (AP) —
The chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee said Tuesday he favors developing new technology to remotely destroy the computers of people who illegally download music from the Internet.The rest of the story is here, and believe me, it’s just as bad as it sounds….
This is about music so it’s relatively easy to understand ownership and copyright issues. But isn’t there something wrong with this picture? How far is it necessary to go to protect intellectual property rights? Do we destroy ALL of someone else’s property on the “suspicion” that they have somehow violated someone’s copyright–what if I have irreplaceable personal intellectual property on my computer and their “suspicions” turned out to be wrong? And then there’s the broader problem of how we define intellectual property. What if the government decides my having “classified (as defined by them)” info in my hard drive calls for eradication of my computer?
By the way, I understand Senator Hatch is the author of some patriotic tunes for which he collects royalties. 😯
Logan wrote:However I’ve held off from posting because I didn’t want to speculate… when I can think of something to add that’s more substantial or moderately intelligent then I will post on this subject again.
Logan, don’t wait till then, If I waited that long before I posted you’d never see me here. 😛 Throw in a few jokes 😉
elmey
Actually – I was hoping that this thread would mysteriously disappear when I came back home as it is really bothering me. I have a confession to make: I am now holding back on what I truly feel because of fear….. If I appear to be less of what I was before it is because I fear for my personal freedom due to the changing global political structure we find ourselves in today. I would be a fool to say what I really feel on the net – so I will not. Every page I see; every post I make is saved and accessible to the RCMP (who I have less of a problem with – hell…..some of my friends are RCMP…..hehehe…..), and more importantly to the FBI/CIA unnamed contingent that is working with the RCMP (ya…..right…..) for U.S.A. security reasons…..
Paranoid? ***racist anti-…..deleted*** (yes it was a full paragraph and I had to delete it).
Anyway Logan; don’t expect any pearls of wisdom from me here – I am just another disgruntled old guy. If I was of a better frame of mind – I would take my philosophic ideas/property and give them to one of my untalented contemporaries teaching their thoughtless mutterings to a university class of clueless idiots (the fate of present day philosophy). I would have less of a problem if the guy was black as I originally wanted to put a Black face in present day philosophy – this dream is all but gone now…..
What does this personal rant have to do with anything in this thread? Not much except for my hesitations relating to Black contributions being turned into White “genius”. Most particularly in the States where it has always been my contention that Black America has been the largest global influence and direction of what we call culture; and it is culture which separates us from the animals. Yet this same race is made to feel they are inferior and subhuman. You can figure it out for yourself…..
Individual intellectual property must be supported even if it can not be practically protected. Throwing up our hands in exasperation and saying there is nothing that can be done goes against the spirit of individual human rights. But the record company’s arguments are a sham. The copyright laws are inconsistent internationally (there are practical conflicts even between Canada and the States – heard about them this morning but forgot much as I did not know I would need the information). Once again…..these are corporate rights – not truly individual (the budding singer has to “agree” to onerous conditions that give up much of his intellectual rights to a music corporation). I am only interested in the belittlement of true and unique individual intellectual property. I find it funny that my humanitarian thoughts/property hold little value or weight to governments – yet – any anti-government thoughts are saved and vigorously connected and ascribed to me specifically for a court of law. What hypocritical bullshit!
Maurice
It’s a cool thread Maurice! I’m glad you didn’t delete it – you DO have that right you know. In a way, you could say that YOU have a right over your intellectual property on this site!
I have to apologize by the way. Pressure of work has kept me away and not able to answer you thread sooner. I wasn’t snubbing you, just didn’t have chance to answer your comments fully.
Intellectual property on the net is a complete minefield! Most of the legal aspects are out dated, onerous or just plain stupid. Many publishers – you, me corporations aren’t aware of the law concerning intellectual property on the net nor do many of us perceive any problems with such. There have been many work-arounds based on practical examples of living with the problem and it’s those that I’ll explain to you with the legal bit of the site.
The legal statements relating to intellectual property on this site and boiler-plate off-the shelf standard stuff. They haven’t evolved because of problems encountered before. They are a basic protection against the more unscrupulous person intent on attacking the site for it’s content. They are as much to protect your rights as mine. I don’t really see myself as holding the ownership of the material published unless I specifically say so. All material which is ‘presented’ (ie. reviews, articles and other written works) are encouraged to contain a copyright notice. Posts on the board aren’t.
In short, if you write something that you think is worthy of protection – it is YOUR responsibility to protect it. This can usually be done with a copyright notice. conversely, if you use material that belongs to someone else, then you should display their copyright – if you intend to derive any notoriety or financial benefit then you will need their permission!! – Written.
If for instance, I intended to publish a book of all my LEXX reviews, I’d have to get the written permission of Salter Street Films (for permission to use the pictures). They don’t mind me using the pics in my web reviews provided I mention that they own the copyright to them. If I was to make money as a direct result of their property however, that’s a whole different ballgame!
All the issues about intellectual property can therefore be summed up in this way. You must decide if your post is going to be beneficial (financially or in terms of fame) to someone other than yourself. If you think it is then you should either refrain from posting or take steps to make sure that your intellectual property is marked with a copyright notice.
ALL posts in SadBAORD are treated (by me) as discussions that say, we take part in, in a pub. They are not likely to become works of art (although some of the pictures are pretty cool) and it’s also unlikely that money will change hands as a direct result. In this respect we’re pretty safe.
Surrendering your rights to your own material to me is another ballgame! Those are protective rights only! The moderator team under my recommendations, is able to edit and delete posts by people if they consider that the post is harmful or offensive or – because this whole process is soooooooooooo subjective – because they simply don’t like it! Such occurences are VERY rare and I’ve known some moderators get very upset because they just want to delete some persons post and ban their ass for being a jerk yet they don’t because they are either personally involved in the discussion or because they are big believers in free speech.
BUT, when they come down on someone they will usually come down hard. I personally have deleted posts, edited posts and more importantly from the point of view of this thread, I’ve edited posts to the detriment of the original poster (ie. ‘his post has been edited because thew poster was being stupid’). I’ve even been tempted to put in nasty comments about the offending poster – in his/her own post just because I was angry! I (and on behalf of the moderator team ABSOLUTELY reserve the right to act this way if we feel the need! I know it’s a hard thing to say and I know that this is probably what you were originally expressing concern about. BUt the fact is that I WILL change a post if I think it requires it – (and I will support any moderator doing the same).
HOWEVER! Can you imagine what would happened if I did such a thing? Peeps would get very worked up. Posters might decide not to come to SadBAORD, or worse still, I would be inundated with tough comments and asked to explain my actions – and that could be embarrassing and make me look silly or unableto handle the moderators job effectively.
So there’s a bit of a balance, The SlipstreamWeb BBS didn’t have that balance, they let everything go and wars broke out and the webmaster eventually closed the whole BBS after things got too nasty! Others are small boards and have little closed networks of cliquey groups.
So, on the whole I think we have the balance right.
By the way, I used to be an Innovation Exec for an economic development consultancy company advising small businesses on licensing and copyright (among other things) and once published an article for Entrepreneur magazine on the subject.SadGeezer wrote:All the issues about intellectual property can therefore be summed up in this way. You must decide if your post is going to be beneficial (financially or in terms of fame) to someone other than yourself. If you think it is then you should either refrain from posting or take steps to make sure that your intellectual property is marked with a copyright notice.
Fair enough; and I thank you for your reply. It is true what you say about protecting your ideas. I personally am getting tired of delivering packages from “The Shopping Channel” (to eighty year old women…..) for a living and may take one last shot at making my mark in the world of philosophy (a pet interest of mine); as much as the ideas themselves…..was the idea of putting a black face in the text books of contemporary philosophy. I can’t tell you how much it bothers me to see what a wreck I have made of my life and what meager talents I wasted. Perhaps if I had a family I could justify things more; but I have a free hand and am just wasting time/life…..
The question – of course – is how to keep ideas connected to my name and face….. Just shopping an idea around is probably fatal. I will have to work something out – but the problem of intellectual property may prove to be a greater act of genius than the ideas I am trying to protect. We shall see – but – expect me to make a fool of myself….. It is strange; I would have liked nothing more then to have spent the rest of my life in academia, sheltered from normal society. But even in this bizarre existence I now live…..I am still very connected to my academic roots. Too long a story here – but this “dog” has to return home and “poop” on the family”s living room carpet. I can’t wait….hehehehe!!!!!
With regard to the internet, all just fun; but I thought it necessary to open this subject up rather than it remain just a click of everyone’s mouse when they sign up…..
Maurice
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.