LEXX vs Star Wars
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The 2 best Sci-Fi shows EVER (In my opinion) What does everyone think is the best, I know Star Wars are movies and LEXX is a Series, but still what do you think is the best….
[img]http://debuginc.dhs.org:5000/debug/diwf/images/flare.jpg[/img]
[img]images/smiles/icon_cool.gif[/img] Lexx [img]images/smiles/icon_cool.gif[/img]
No contest!
[b]LEXX[/b] all the way!! [img]images/smiles/icon_cool.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by Flamegrape:
[img]images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] FISH [img]images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]
You mean “Fish,” the “Barney Miller” spin-off starring Abe Vigoda? Yes, that does kick major patinkin.
–Aleck
quote:
Originally posted by Aleck:
You mean “Fish,” the “Barney Miller” spin-off starring Abe Vigoda? Yes, that does kick major patinkin.
–Aleck
[i]Q: How many surrealists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A: Fish.[/i]
[img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]Hmmm… that’s like the age old question:
“Bulls VS Bears” [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
[i]Star Wars[/i], no contest. [i]Lexx[/i] is great sci-fi, but it doesn’t compare to [i]Star Wars[/i]. Nothing does. [i]Star Wars[/i] and [i]Lexx[/i] are like Shakespeare and Hawthorne, Mozart and Salieri. Mario and Kirby.
Yeah, I agree with DalekTek, Star Wars is greater than Lexx for lots of reasons which I won’t go into. Tee hee hee.
**Boba Fett sets his Rocketpack and flies in the air**
So-long Suckas!!!!!!
“Mario and Kirby”
Now, Dalektek, Kirby.
KKKKKIIIIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRBBBBBYYYY!
Kirby is a pink puffy creature. There is no competition there. Kirby wins hands down (With the exception of Mario Bros 2)
Lexx is the best.Sorry guys. Starwars.
I would have to say lexx for 2 reasons:
1) I am extremely prejudice against anything compared to lexx2) Lexx wins the originallity award since star wars is based on a combination of greek mythology and the following 2 anime movies:
a)Galaxy express 999
b)adieu galaxy express 999
P.S. I’m no good with french.quote:
Originally posted by brunnis:
2) Lexx wins the originallity award since star wars is based on a combination of greek mythology and the following 2 anime movies:
a)Galaxy express 999
b)adieu galaxy express 999
P.S. I’m no good with french.
[i]Star Wars[/i] also blatantly rips off huge chunks of Akira Kurosawa’s [i]The Hidden Fortress[/i].
–Aleck
[i]Star Wars[/i] is not a ripoff of [i]The Hidden Fortress[/i], it’s an homage. Just like [i]Woz[/i] is an homage to [i]The Wizard of Oz[/i] by L. Frank Baum (there are some subtle references there to be noticed by the especially observant viewer).
And [i]Lexx[/i] may be good, but it’s not original. [i]I Worship His Shadow[/i] is a ripoff on [i]Star Wars[/i] with a bit of [i]Blake’s 7[/i] thrown in. [i]Eating Pattern[/i] is a ripoff of [i]What is the Secret of Soylent Green?[/i], the whole premise of the show is lifted from [i]Star Trek[/i] ([i]The Next Generation[/i] mostly, but with bits of the original series and [i]Voyager[/i]) with significant elements and episode plots from [i]Doctor Who[/i], the whole prophecy thing with Kai is practically copied from [i]The Dark Crystal[/i] (unless there’s some myth I’m not aware of that inspired them both), then in the fourth season they’ve fed [i]The X-Files[/i] into the meat grinder. There are probably more, too.
No work of fiction is created in a vacuum. Both [i]Star Wars[/i]and [i]Lexx[/i]have their fair share of influences. They are both variations on a theme, and instead of tracing those influences I’d rather examine what each does with them.
As I see it [i]Lexx[/i] is willing to experiment, to push boundaries. Some of those experiments are more successful than others, but it is continuously challenging the viewers expectations.
[i]Star Wars[/i], on the other hand, is slickly commercial. Since [i]Return of the Jedi[/i] and the nauseatingly cute ewoks, the [i]Star Wars[/i] saga has become increasingly sanitized and juvenile.
[i]Star Wars[/i] will always have a special place in my heart, but [i]Lexx[/i] is far more interesting and relevant to me now.
quote:
Originally posted by Aleck:
[i]Star Wars[/i] also blatantly rips off huge chunks of Akira Kurosawa’s [i]The Hidden Fortress[/i].
–Aleck
Yes! Yes! to Aleck you listen!!! Been trying to think of the name of that one. We’re not talking about [i]influences[/i] here.. we’re talking about [i]ripping off[/i]!!…
Farm boy teams up with some other Han-solo like dude to rescue this princess from the fortress.. the main Samurai bad ass turns out to be the farm boy’s father..
I could be a bit off having never seen it but I know it’s availible on Criterion DVD [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
But [i]Lexx[/i] has always bordered on run-of-the-mill, [i]Star Wars[/i] pushes the envelope, taking science fiction places it’s never been with each new episode. It has a standart of excellence unmatched by any movie series in the history of film. The four [i]Lexx/Tales from a Parallel Universe[/i] movies give us a combined 13 stars, [i]Star Wars[/i] gives us 16 (all 4 star films). [img]images/smiles/icon_cool.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by DalekTek790:
[i]Star Wars[/i] is not a ripoff of [i]The Hidden Fortress[/i], it’s an homage.
Seeing as how [i]The Wizard of Oz[/i] is a cinematic icon (we’re dealing specifically in cinematic precedents here, so let’s narrow the focus), and is known to practically anyone who lives (particularly in North America), “Woz” can be considered more of an homage than [i]Star Wars[/i]. Lucas never mentioned any relation between [i]The Hidden Fortress[/i] and [i]Star Wars[/i] until the similarities were pointed out, and a Japanese period drama from the early 1960’s is not generally considered a touchstone of popular culture. [i]The Hidden Fortress[/i] remains fairly unknown to the general populace outside of the [i]Star Wars[/i] connection. There is a fine line between homage and rip-off, and [i]Star Wars[/i] walks it, but leans over toward the rip-off side ever so slightly. As it was acknowledged by Lucas as an inspiration for [i]Star Wars[/i] I phrased it “blatantly rips off.” Because it is blatant and self-acknowledged.
…And [i]Star Wars[/i] doesn’t push any envelopes. It is as much a thing of the past as “Buck Rogers.” There is nothing visionary in the storytelling, and the whole thing is lifted from Japanese sources and old serials (at least as much as the Indiana Jones series). Effects-wise, the series is spectacular. But both story-wise and the structure of the films themselves, it’s been done before.
And the same goes for [i]Star Trek.[/i]
–Aleck
quote[quote] Star Wars pushes the envelope, taking science fiction places it’s never been with each new episode. [/quote]
Huh? You mean realms of cloying sentimentality unseen outside Disney movies?
I have a copy of [i]The Hidden Fortress[/i] and [i]The Seven Samuri[/i] on laserdisc. (Nope, not DVD! Laserdisc!) I can say, with confidence, that [i]The Hidden Fortress[/i] is so similar to [i]A New Hope[/i] that it can be called a “rip-off”. But not in a negative way. [i]The Magnificent Seven[/i] is an even more blatant rip-off of [i]The Seven Samuri[/i].
For [i]A New Hope[/i] to be an homage, [i]The Hidden Fortress[/i] would have to be well-known in America. That Japanese film wasn’t and probably still isn’t well-known in non-Japanese pop culture.
But never fear. Many popular film makers (including ILM, I believe) put their skills at the disposal of that great film director to make [i]Akira Kurasawa’s Dreams[/i], a very good film. This was a formal acknowledgement of Kurasawa’s influence upon Hollywood.
As a footnote, watch [i]A New Hope[/i] again. Listen closely to one of the scenes in the Death Star confrence room. One of the officers scoffs Vader, pointing out that his jedi mysticism hasn’t helped to “find the rebel’s hidden fortress.” [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by Flamegrape:
I have a copy of [i]The Hidden Fortress[/i] and [i]The Seven Samuri[/i] on laserdisc. (Nope, not DVD! Laserdisc!) I can say, with confidence, that [i]The Hidden Fortress[/i] is so similar to [i]A New Hope[/i] that it can be called a “rip-off”. But not in a negative way. [i]The Magnificent Seven[/i] is an even more blatant rip-off of [i]The Seven Samuri[/i].
Yes but [i]The Maginificent Seven[/i] is usually credited as a western remake of [i]The Seven Samurai[/i] whereas [i]Star Wars [/i]is not usually billed as a SciFi remake of [i]The Hidden Fortress[/i]
quote:
Originally posted by Flamegrape:
As a footnote, watch [i]A New Hope[/i] again. Listen closely to one of the scenes in the Death Star confrence room. One of the officers scoffs Vader, pointing out that his jedi mysticism hasn’t helped to “find the rebel’s hidden fortress.” [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Very cool. Never thought about it that way. Wonder if that was a deliberate nod.
Star Wars? Please. Nothing new, a ripoff of Zen and Shinto Buddhism.
No humor, no interesting female characters (or male characters for that matter), no sex,no pushing the envelope.I saw each Star Wars movie once. I’ve seen each Lexx movie about 4 times, and most of the series at least once.
Talking evil poetry reciting brains?
Lexx: Yes
Star Wars: No‘The dead do not {insert action here}’
Lexx: Yes
Star Wars: NoLoveslaves, wife banks, cluster lizards, pattern, bordellos, talking brains, cannibels, insulting robot heads, mantrid drones, insects, etc.
Lexx beats Star Wars.
While we’re on topic, let’s discuss the similarities between [i]Lexx[/i] movies and the first [i]Star Wars[/i] trilogy. Both have:
-A noble race of warriors killed off by an evil organization.
-An evil organization run by a being with supernatural powers.
-A pilot in a one-man fighter deliberately crashing into the control area of a giant space ship.
-A galactic civil war.
-Battles in space.
-Planets getting blown up.
-Holograms.
-Humans acting like machines.
-Machines acting like humans.
-A damsel in distress with a strength of her own.
-A space captain forced into a rebellion.
-A wise mystical figure to tell the warrior of his quest.
-A hero killed in one-on-one combat with a dark figure.
-A man in black robes shooting electrical bolts at the warrior.
-Little toaster robots wheeling around corridors.
-Someone named Zev.
If we’re going to point fingers about borrowed elements, I think [i]Lexx[/i] is much guiltier than [i]Star Wars[/i].
I agree that there are many parallels between I Worship His Shadow and Star Wars. My personal glib description of IWHS (though not Lexx generally) is Star Wars if it were reimagined by Terry Gilliam. But, DT, most of the things that you list were established conventions in pulp space opera a very long time before Star Wars. Ever heard of E.E. “Doc” Smith? How about Edmond Hamilton? Maybe his wife, Leigh Brackett… yes, she died working on the script of my favorite of the Star Wars films, The Empire Strikes Back, long after writing such books as The Sword of Rhiannon and such films as The Big Sleep.
And the second thing you’re failing to take into account is that Lexx is satire. The first scene of IWHS seems to me a dark inversion of the end of Star Wars (eep! they killed Luke Skywalker in the first five minutes!). His Divine Shadow in all his megalomaniacal glory is a parody of all those Evil Overlords who are too stupid to follow the sound advise of Peter Anspach. (link here for those unfamiliar…[url=http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html]Evil Overlord List[/url]) The obvious continuity errors, the counsel of talking (and all too often whining) evil brains… Lexx exposes the conventions of space opera in order to demolish them (and at the same time, somehow manages to be gripping and moving in between the laughs). Star Wars simply revels in those conventions, and there’s nothing wrong with that, but how you can claim it’s ground breaking in any way except for the special effects is beyond me.
Lexx is also an incredibly flexible television series, able to go in virtually any direction it’s creators wish. Star Wars is a film series that, it seems to me, is stagnating under the weight of its own popularity. I’ve already mentioned the ewoks. When the original films were remastered and rereleased we were treated to such travesties as the altered confrontation between Greedo and Han. And The Phantom Menace did not inspire me with confidence for a trilogy that, by it’s subject matter, should be much darker than the original one.
Maybe my tastes are dark and jaded, but even when Lexx is not one hundred per cent successful, it is more interesting and challenging than Star Wars is, even at its best.
[ 05-11-2001: Message edited by: uberfrosch ]
quote:
Originally posted by uberfrosch:
But, DT, most of the things that you list were established conventions in pulp space opera a very long time before Star Wars. Ever heard of E.E. “Doc” Smith? How about Edmond Hamilton? Maybe his wife, Leigh Brackett… yes, she died working on the script of my favorite of the Star Wars films, The Empire Strikes Back, long after writing such books as The Sword of Rhiannon and such films as The Big Chill.
This is a very, very good point.
quote:
Originally posted by uberfrosch:
And the second thing you’re failing to take into account is that Lexx is satire. The first scene of IWHS seems to me a dark inversion of the end of Star Wars (eep! they killed Luke Skywalker in the first five minutes!). His Divine Shadow in all his megalomaniacal glory is a parody of all those Evil Overlords who are too stupid to follow the sound advise of Peter Anspach. (link here for those unfamiliar…[url=http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html]Evil Overlord List[/url]) The obvious continuity errors, the counsel of talking (and all too often whining) evil brains… Lexx exposes the conventions of space opera in order to demolish them (and at the same time, somehow manages to be gripping and moving in between the laughs).
Peter’s list was hilarious! Thanxx for post a link to it! If I ever get around to writing that space-opera movie script, I’ll adhere to it’s teachings as holy scripture!
I had almost forgotten, but the satire of space-opera that [i]Lexx[/i] presents was one of the big reasons i became interested in the show. It made me take notice of it and realize that it wasn’t “just another space-opera.”
quote:
Originally posted by uberfrosch:
Star Wars simply revels in those conventions, and there’s nothing wrong with that, but how you can claim it’s ground breaking in any way except for the special effects is beyond me.
You are right. The stories and plots of the [i]Star Wars[/i] movies are standard. These standards of the “hero and his quest” dates back to [i]Gilgamesh[/i] and beyond. But [i]Star Wars[/i] accomplished this story-telling feat very well. Countless other movies have failed miserably. (e.g. [url=http://www.scifi.com/mst3000/experiments/910/]The Final Sacrifice[/url]) If any one of Peter’s Overlord rules were adhered to in a [i]Star Wars[/i] movie, I would be disappointed!
[ 04-11-2001: Message edited by: Flamegrape ]
I know E. E. Smith from the [i]Lensman[/i] series, but I’m not a fan or anything. He might be famous for something else, I don’t know.
The thing is [i]Star Wars[/i] was the first real space adventure film. In 1977 nobody had seen anything like that, it was unprecedented.
[i]Star Wars[/i] is great because it has mythic and spiritual elements that [i]Lexx[/i] doesn’t have (neither do most sci-fi movies). They’re really not comparable, since they’re very different types of movies. They appeal to different parts of the psyche, and somewhat different audiences (the [i]Star Wars[/i] films appeal to viewers of all ages, [i]Lexx[/i] isn’t really made for anyone younger than 9 or 10). I’m not sure they’re really applicable to side-to-side comparison.
[ 05-11-2001: Message edited by: DalekTek790 ]
quote:
Originally posted by DalekTek790:
I know E. E. Smith from the [i]Lensman[/i] series, but I’m not a fan or anything. He might be famous for something else, I don’t know.
I’m not familiar with him either. I will have to sit down and read his books someday.
quote:
Originally posted by DalekTek790:
The thing is [i]Star Wars[/i] was the first real space adventure film. In 1977 nobody had seen anything like that, it was unprecedented.
Well, there was [i]2001: A Space Odyssey[/i]. I still say that is the best sci-fi film ever made. Does that movie have anything to do with the hero-quest archetype? Maybe, it’s debateable.
quote:
Originally posted by DalekTek790:
[i]Star Wars[/i] is great because it has mythic and spiritual elements that [i]Lexx[/i] doesn’t have (neither do most sci-fi movies). They’re really not comparable, since they’re very different types of movies. I’m not sure they’re really applicable to side-to-side comparison.
I agree. Apples and oranges. But I don’t believe that [i]Lexx[/i] is a rip-off of [i]Star Wars[/i] or [i]Star Trek[/i] or anything else. The genre of space-opera will become mundane in ages to come anyway. I mean, the human race will explore and colonize space, right? Remember when the movie [i]War Games[/i] was scary and new? Now hacking is a cliche as seen in re-runs of USA’s [i]La Femme Nikita[/i]! What I’m getting at is that the idea of a trio as the crew of a spaceship might be a story that is regarded as a rip-off of NASA’s apollo program. Who can tell?
(Okay, this blurry drunken thought process is going to finish it’s beer and return to the World Series…) [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img]
Well, I’d only read Smith for his curious historical value. I brought him up for the same reason Aleck brought up Buck Rogers. Hamilton and Brackett were much better writers, so I’d try them first, if you can find them anyway. [img]images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]
hmmm I have read a bunch of interesting arguements here, but lets just look at it for what it is, obviously the winner is Star Wars, I mean really how many little kids did you see running around dressed as Tweedle this halloween? How many Lexx lunch boxes go off to school each day, how many kai action figures(complete with over 15 different “the dead do not” phrases!) were sold last year?
Its obviously ALL about the dough here folks, and frankly, Lucas can buy more stuff than Donovan [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img]
(psssst, that was a joke)
Seriously though,
Lexx is a pretty cool show but it will never ever ever be as cool as Star Wars in MY opinion, which is not EVERYONES opinion, which should not be taken as FACT to be ARGUED, got it? good [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]I don’t remember a ‘Zev’ in Star Wars.
But if Lexx is a ripoff of Star Wars, it’s a ripoff of Homer’s Odessy (fleeing the end of a very destructive war, looking for a home, having all sorts of wierd sexual and other kinds of adventures, Xev trying to avoid having sex with a man she dosen’t find attractive, like Penelope,).
Or perhaps a ripoff of Freud, Xev is the Ego (controaling the id, but they seek the same goal), Stan the Id (protecting himself and trying to gratify his needs) and Kai the Superego, the voice of reason.
I think Lexx and Star Wars is an even contest, mainly because they both can’t claim outright originality, having been influenced in so many ways.
But Lexx slightly edges it for the fact it is fighting against established Sci-Fi like Star Trek and other programs, it wins because it is different from the stale form of a sci-fi program that we get nowadays.
Lexx may have not been entirely original, but the first movie did give it a fresh appeal that many of us hadn’t seen in a long while.
Star Wars had it somewhat easier, there wasn’t a market for the big budget Sci-Fi movie back then, and like Elvis is called King because he was the best at the time, so it goes for Star Wars.
So Lexx wins on this front, but Lexx has alienated itself from a wider audience, but then it wouldn’t be Lexx otherwise.
Lexx and Star Wars are similar in the groundbreaking aspect of Sci-Fi, Star Wars moved away from the traditional Sci-Fi, and Lexx did the same, it’s a shame we don’t see the vision of Lexx and Star Wars in more T.V or movies.
But Lexx wins it for me, because Lexx did have it tougher and was never given the opportunity to become more than just a television series.
Squishyquote:
Originally posted by :
I don’t remember a ‘Zev’ in Star Wars.
Zev Senesca was a Rebel pilot played by Christopher Malcom. He was credited as “Zev (Rogue 2)” in [i]The Empire Strikes Back[/i] but was not credited for his appearance in [i]Return of the Jedi[/i].
I wonder how much acid you would have to take before you couldn’t tell the difference between lexx and star wars. [img]images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by brunnis:
I wonder how much acid you would have to take before you couldn’t tell the difference between lexx and star wars. [img]images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img]
3 tabs, 5 psilocybin mushrooms, a bottle of mescal, 10-15 bong hits and some peyote (to taste), and leave the TV OFF. Then, you will not be able to tell the difference between LEXX and Star Wars.
–Aleck
quote:
Originally posted by Aleck:
3 tabs, 5 psilocybin mushrooms, a bottle of mescal, 10-15 bong hits and some peyote (to taste
–Aleck
damn! [img]images/smiles/icon_cool.gif[/img] yeah, but what you see in the toilet bowl might be pretty revealing [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by FX:
damn! [img]images/smiles/icon_cool.gif[/img] yeah, but what you see in the toilet bowl might be pretty revealing [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Say, that reminds me of a story. Once while very ill I watched [i]The Empire Strikes Back[/i]. After it was over I had to vomit, and I had a hallucination of starfighters shooting at each other inside the toilet bowl.
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