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I went to see the Return of the King last night with Newkate and overall I guess I was impressed. There were some great moments in the film but I also got the impression the Jackson was getting a little smug 🙁
It was a whopping 3 hour film and I think it could have been cut to 2 and a half hours easily, there were many over-long scenes of soggy sentimentality that almost spoiled the film for me.
Fave points: Graphics are still as groundbreaking as ever. The realism of an Oliphant or Troll or 10,000 screaming Orcs was awe-inspiring. The Aeowin fight with the Nazgul was just wonderful but the fight with Legolas and the Oliphant was a little too much like the Matrix (and the graphics weren’t as good)).
Sean Astin was magnificent as Sam Gamgee and managed to carry some of the other members of the cast (like all of the other hobbits! – all of whome should to go back to acting class!) who seemed to struggle a little from time to time (probably bogged dow with the soggy mushy script).
Bad bits: the unbelievably stupid scene around Mount Doom with Sam and Frodo and Smeagol. If anyone was to get within 100 yards of a river of molten rock they’d shrivel in the heat, you almost felt those three would end up surfing! And frodo and Sam sitting on an island in the middle of a fast flowing river of lava was almost unbearable – for goodness sake, they didn’t even have shoes on!
As the ring is dropped over the edge I almost expected to see Harry Potter fly up on his broomstick with the ring in his hand, “I cought the snick! We win!”
The goodbye scenes were awful. Sanctimonious and sloppy, I felt like cringing through most of them. And they didn’t stick to the book when the hobbits returned to hobbiton – no quelling the effects of Saruman/Sauron here 🙁
But, although the bad bits were very bad, the good bits were wonderful (as we’ve come to expect – and maybe that’s why I’m a little too critical. Maybe my expectations were too high).
So, what did you think?
And, how does this final part of the saga compare with the other two films?
MANY SPOILERS HEREIN, PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!
I think I’d read so many orgasmic reviews before I went to see it, that I set myself up for a fall.
Also, I think that this is the first one of the trilogy that I went to, when I’d recently read the book version beforehand. If I’d been less familiar with the book, I think I would have been less disappointed.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re in the minority, Saddy, but I too found the sentimental bits to be altogether too sentimental. And was I the only one who felt those hobbits were sometimes looking a little TOO longingly into each others’ eyes? 🙂 During the final goodbye scene, I halfway expected somebody to slip somebody some tongue!
Also, as in the previous films, I was not fond of the silly over-done ExtremeSportsFighting Legolas. Hated the shield-surfing in Towers, and likewise didn’t like Legolas sliding down the Oliphant’s trunk in King. However, after Legolas has used this maneuver to take out an entire Oliphant and it’s crew, Gimli’s response was great!
That still only counts as one!
BTW, the lava bits happened pretty much like in the book, so can’t say I was too surprised or disappointed by those. The final Grey Havens goodbye scene happened more or less like in the book too. They just skipped over/left out the Saruman-in-the-Shire part.
Some more SPOILERIFFIC observations:
I was sad there was no Mouth of Sauron in the movie. He’s Sauron’s chief spokesman, who (in the book) comes out of the Black Gate and trash-talks Aragorn for a little while, showing him weapons they got off Frodo, claiming Frodo has been captured, and telling Aragorn to give up. He actually CONVINCES Gandalf that they’ve failed, which is neat.
Also in the book, when Sauron is finally vanquished, and diminishes into the sky, there’s a brief scene where we see Eowyn and Faramir holding hands on top of a city wall in Minas Tirith, watching Sauron diminish in the distance. I missed seeing that in the movie.
Also in the book, after Eowyn takes out the Witch-king, she lies unconscious next to her dying uncle, Theoden. There is a bad-arse moment where Eomer shows up, too late. First he sees his dying uncle, then he sees his apparently dead sister (whom he didn’t even know was ON the battlefield until that moment), and THEN Eomer goes completely stark raving psycho, and leads the Rohirrim in a kamikazi charge against the remaining enemy forces. I missed seeing that in the movie. ALTHOUGH, to be fair, part of that missing scene has been spotted on some trailers. That means it exists, and likely means it will be on the extended DVD.
Also missed Gandalf’s brief showdown with the Witch-king, which can also be glimpsed in a few trailers. Another extended DVD scene, I reckon!
I was disappointed that Saruman got cut from the film. The showdown between him and Gandalf is cool. But it doesn’t bother me too much, since I know for sure that will be in the extended DVD.
I was also a bit disappointed that we never saw Denethor using his own Palantir (which is what is making him crazy), and predicting (erroniously) that the Black Fleet spelled the doom of Men. Hopefully in the DVD?
My brother and I (who saw the movie in completely different theaters, with two completely different audiences) also noticed some… err… oddly comical audience reactions to certain scenes. Particularly scenes with Denethor!
The scene where Gandalf bops Denethor in the nose with his staff got a big laugh. 🙂
And, a bit more oddly, the scene where Denethor is burning alive, and runs flaming across the courtyard and off the edge of the Tower of Ecthelion also got a big laugh! 🙂
Side note: From the coronation scene, it looks like that courtyard is as long as a football field! Dude, that is a LONG way to run when you’re ON FIRE!!!
You gotta admit, Denethor is possibly the ULTIMATE Sad Geezer!
We also noticed some amusing parallels to Star Wars. During the battle with the Oliphants, when Eowyn is riding between their legs, I couldn’t help but turn to my buddy and say:
That armor’s too strong for blasters! We have to use our harpoons and tow cables!
We then wondered if Legolas would swing onto an Oliphant with a Tarzan yell, take it over with two hobbits, then use it to sneak up behind another AT-ST… erm… I mean Oliphant, and take it out.
And then, during Theoden’s death scene, we were amazed to witness this exchange…
Eowyn (to dying Theoden):
I’m going to save you!
Theoden:
You… already have…
To which we followed with variations of:
Help me take this mask off. I want to look at you with my own eyes.
Tell your brother… you were riiiiiight…<dies>
LASTLY, don’t think all my snarking means I didn’t like the movie. I still enjoyed it immensely, I still think it was a great end to the trilogy, still hope it gets best picture, really looking forward to the extended version, and already planning to see the movie again in the theater.
And now, I think we need to start a grassroots movement to pressure Peter Jackson to get to work on The Hobbit, before the two Ians get too old to do it!
Spoiler-free:
I loved it right up until that last 1/2 hour of corn. I think for the sake of our bladders that could have been cut down and added to the extended DVD.
Like the others, the battles were breathtaking. Too much crying in between for my taste, but some people go for that so I didn’t really find it bothersome….
but I expected to see “The End” about 4 or 5 times before it finally came up. I wasn’t the only one in the theatre to think so. People kept nearly standing, then sitting, then nearly standing, then sitting. The kid behind me actually said, “Is this the real end now?”
A few people, including Mr. Pet, muttered “Mr. Anderson” quite a bit during Mr Smith’s scenes, but it didn’t diminish my enjoyment of the movie.
I’ll have to buy the extended DVD to match the others, but I can’t imagine what he could have left out besides some action bits mentioned above, so I don’t know how to vote! 😕
83
fourty-five minutes too long. Several scenes were lingered over till I was like “okay already, we get it, great shot, now please move it along.”
theSpouse Agrees. Although he thought more than an hour could have been lopped off with no harm done to the pic.
Great movie, saw it Christmas day downtown Seattle.
I had listened to the unabridged audio books (work lets me do this), so I knew when the actual ending was going to occur.
I did not feel the movie was too long at all. I enjoy long movies, you get your moneys worth. Here in the USA, your subject to high ticket prices, on top of ads upon ads upon ads before the previews even start.
OMG Smeagel die, die DIE!!! I never liked him and he just would not die; and really how many exhausted battle scenes can one stomach in 3 1/2 hrs?
Gotta love Gandalf the wizard that takes no shiite! Love how he thumps people if they get in his way; yes, those with higher powers can get cranky especially when things are not moving correctly. You go boy!!!
Well I finally got to see it and I loved it. Not being familiar with the book, I can’t nit pick the omissions etc. I thought it was better than the second film, in fact I think it’s my favourite.
I agree with sgtdraino that Legolas shield surfing and sliding down the Oliphant was corny. (I particularly hated the shield surfing because I’d just finished Terry Pratchet’s ‘Jingo’ where captain Carrot surfs down a sand dune on his shield)
I loved the film but would have been quite happy for it to end at the coronation. I found the hobbit love fest that followed was excrutiating and the return to normal life in the Shire a bit of an anticlimax.
Great action scenes (Jackson’s forte) interspersed with silliness that no good producer (Jackson’s achilles’ heel) would have allowed. The Rhohirrim should have been whipped up out of sight of the enemy and then their charge should have been a surprise to the orcs – would have been far more effective.
Denethor should have been left out, as should the silly Gondorian cavalry charge with lances against buildings.
The Dead shouldn’t have been used as a deus ex machina to wipe out all the orcs. As it turned out, the entire existance of the Rhohirrim (and the Gondorians) was unnecesary, as the Dead Dudes could have saved Gondor on their own (and killed every orc in Mordor, for that matter).
The movie should have, instead, featured Aragorn’s deception that he had the ring. That was key (in the books) to Sauron’s preoccupation with the forces of the West, and would have taken no additional onscreen time to explain.
The rest of the action bits I accept as Peter doing what Peter does best, but I thought the heart of the story simply wasn’t there. The good guys all just suffered because that is what good guys do.
Pity Jackson never read the books before doing the movies. What a treat we would have had if he didn’t rely on others’ interpretations of the books, or if there had simply been a producer involved who was determined to ensure that the best bits from the books got into the movies.
It was still a great flick, though. I loved getting dizzy watching the hobbits crawl up the stairs past Minas Morgul, and the special effects for the battles will by themselves convince me to get the DVDs, flaws and all. I would give it a B grade.
Pretty good analysis guys! Couldn’t have put it better myself 😉
But would it stop you buying the special edition DVD?
God no, but is is not like I would get to keep it. 🙂 theSpouse got me a LOTR dvd for christmas and I don’t think it was completely unwrapped before theBrother claimed it. 😆
SadGeezer wrote:Pretty good analysis guys! Couldn’t have put it better myself 😉
But would it stop you buying the special edition DVD?
I’d buy the special edition because I’d like to see the deleted scenes. I found LOTR 2 hard to follow at the cinema but it made more sense when I saw the missing scenes.
Anyway, at home I can pause it, have a loo stop and a sandwich. The length of the film was only a problem in the cinema. The Hobbit love fest probably would have been more acceptable if it hadn’t been exacerbated by a bursting bladder. 😆
What a great film, in the battle scenes i almost felt like jumping up and joining in and kicking a little orc butt myself. I didn’t feel that the film was too long in comparsion with the book i felt as if the end had been rushed.
Can’t wait to see the special edition and all the bits they cut out including good old Christopher Lee.
There was for me two down sides to this movie:
1/ It ended
2/ The numbness of my butt in those uncomfortable seats
in the cinema, which had to stay in the same place almost
for three and a half hours.
It was truly a great film!! 😛It was a stand-off btn ROTK and Cold Mountain for numbing your seat in the seats or as my friend said “JC …which one takes longer Frodo to get to the top of Mount Doom or for Jude Law to get up Cold Mountain?” 😛
I’ve just started reading the book for the first time in about 15 years, and I forgot how good a read it is, it’s worth noting that Tolkien acknowledged faults and loopholes in the book, some down to his original version and some down to revisions done by other’s.
For the best part LOTR films have been heavily revised, Jackson has taken a lot of the best text and shortened it, i.e the part where Gandalf talks of Bilbo staying his hand and taking pity on Gollum/Smeagol is actually talked of in Bag End and not the mines of Moria, as well as a few other lines. The films also miss out on the fact that Gandalf leaves Frodo for 17 years before his return, although he pops back to the shire once in a while to chack on Frodo, at that time Frodo is the same age as Bilbo when he first found the ring.
Jackson has quite cleverly picked out a story that is the basic story of LOTR and re-imagined it, and in my opinion is as good as the book.
A lot of gripes such as Frodo and Sam being so close to lava are unavoidable as they are a major part of the story, it’s worthwhile remembering that Hobbits are unlike men, they are very resilient, this is why you see them with bare feet, if you or I travelled such a long distance over mountains and other hazards, our feet would require amputation!!
I don’t think many appreciate just how big a book LOTR is, if you stuck to the original story faithfully, the running time would perhaps be four times longer for each film, I think Jackson has compacted the story extremely well, and even though your ass goes completely numb for the last hour, it would’ve been a catastrophe to cut it short.
I would loved to have seen Saruman’s last desperate act at the end of the film, in it he and Wormatongue enslave the Shire, the hobbits return and overthrow Saruman and then Wormatongue murders Saruman, if I remember rightly, but as there is such a long dialogue after the ring is thrown into the Cracks of Doom, it would’ve meant the film would’ve probably gone on for another hour.
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