On Public Figures and Private Lives
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Greetings Sad Board members, I am a relative newbie to your forum though I have been lurking here for some time and I feel now that I must say something in defense of Michael McManus and those who would uphold his right to a private life.
From what I have both read and experienced by working with “famous actor type”, Mr McManus it would seem is not out of line at all.
Know this, Michael McManus is the rule, not the exception, to star behavior. Brian Downey on the other hand, is the exception.
Let’s put it into perspective folks…
So you have a job, you go to work, you do your 8/10/12 hours each day and perhaps on some of those days after you leave your job you may head to the local watering hole for a refreshing beverage and some relaxation. Now imagine that one day you head to your bar after a particularly greuling days work and as you approach the bar to order your drink, someone walks up to you and immediatly knows everything about you and your occupation and begins hero worshiping you on the spot. Something to the effect of: “Oh my god your Bob Smith the local proctologist!!!! I LOVE YOUR WORK! You have such gentle hands, I wouldn’t want anyone’s thumb up my ass but yours!”
Now folks, imagine that not only does this person spit when they say the letter S, but they proceed to invade the parameters of your personal space and perhaps even go as far as to touch you in a familiar way, how would you feel? I can assure you that even if this person was amazingly attractive you would probably be bothered wouldn’t you?
Well imgine now you are a moderatly attractive actor and this happens to you rather frequently, I can assure you that this would probably affect the way that you interact with the public now wouldn’t it?
I know that I myself, though not a moderatly attractive actor type, am generally appalled when strangers come up to me and immediatly initiate a conversation with me as if they have known me my whole life. Humans require a certain ammount of privacy, Michael is no different, so why do we react differently to him?
With that said, I will open myself to your flogging.
Love,
Gelflingwelcome gelfling! and i agree. i have read somewhere that MM is a somewhat shy person and this is not uncommon in the entertainment business. barbabra striesand feels ill before a public performance for instance. why should we fault these people for this? they give us a gift each time they perform. we should let them have their privacy and not take things they do personally. because guess what, they are not personal. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Thanks to both of you, Gelfling and Mary Beth, for posting well-written and concise posts, that made your point without emotional hand-wringing about the tarnishing of someone’s name. You both make good points, and points that deserve some thought.
Allow me to retort, though (and I promise that I won’t flog *too* hard [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] ).
What some people are upset about is a write-up on a trip to Halifax by three of the moderators, and the fact that some reported that they were treated in a less-than-friendly manner by Mr. McManus. This, in and of itself, is not unfair. If he acted in a certain way, it is worthy of reportage. As so many people focus on him and his character, and would complain if the article *didn’t* report his actions in great detail, he perhaps received more attention in the text than, say, Rolf or Patricia Z. As has been pointed out, positive things were said about him in the piece, so it wasn’t completely tilted toward the negative side of the scales. Some also gave a personal spin on the events that transpired. This, too, is not unfair. This occurs all the time in the journalism business, especially when it’s a personal piece or review, as this Halifax trip was. Many “celebrities'” actions are interpreted in various ways by the person writing the report/review. A good example is Bob Dylan and the cover article in the new [i]Rolling Stone[/i]. Dylan is a notoriously difficult and tempermental interview, and his attitude can put off even the most seasoned interviewer and result in an article that paints a portrait of the artist as an unfriendly and hostile man. The interviewer in this case, may have caught Dylan in a slightly better mood (which is unlikely, as the mannerisms reported and the answers given are fairly consistent with Dylan’s typical attitude), but his personal take on the meeting was more positive. It all depends on who is writing, and the writer should not be faulted for honestly and accurately reporting not only the events that transpire, but their own take on the events as well. To do otherwise is dishonest, and does a disservice to the writer, the place of publication, and the reader. What is written may not always be pleasant, but that is the price one pays. And, as I had said previously, it is not as if the piece makes Mr. McManus out to be a monster. I mean, no one said that he was hitting small children with rakes while snorting lines of coke off of the rumps of hookers (though I’d like pictures of that, if this did take place). The worst that was said was that he came across as unfriendly, standoffish, moody and, at times, a bit p*ssy (place an “i” in there). None of which is truly horrible or constitutes libel (or is it slander? I forget which is print and which is spoken). It’s just impression, and should be taken as the personal experience of the writers in question, and not a generalization. The same should be said of any article that paints a picture of McManus as a genial, friendly and easygoing guy. Both should be looked at with the same sense of “personal impression.”
–Aleck
No flogging here, but a couple of observations.
Having been in the music business for many many years, I have been fortunate enough to have met nearly everyone famous in the industry. I could name atrocious behaviour commited by those whom aspire to have fans love them, and buy their records, but have little regard for them as people. I have also seen artists that in spite of the huge magnitude of their fame, were gracious and polite without hesitation. What the piece talked about was courtesy. The writers didn’t drop in unannounced, and they were given the run of the place by the producers of the show, and didn’t offend anyone with stupid questions or ‘fondling’ anyone. They didn’t push into anyone’s space, and every person except one, was polite and courteous. MM may have had run-ins with weird fans, but I can speak from experience when I say that most artists (and or actors) accept a certain amount of hero-worship or notoriety from the results of their work, for alot of them, it keeps them going. For others, perhaps they are just not comfortable with people or don’t have good people skills, or feel themselves not accountable for their actions. Whatever the reason, if they act a certain way, (discourteous) someone will say something about it. A bad experience with a fan (over two years ago) is no excuse for bad manners toward everyone til the end of time, and the writers just call them as they see them.
It doesn’t change my opinion of him as an actor, (which is in high regard) but as a person, I feel the writers had a right to report their experiences and how it made them feel to be treated that way, by someone they truly admired as an actor. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]MMMMMM…….
I’m going to have to disagree with both Aleck and Myaoxing about the fact that the reporters had the right to report from their own POV, well, perhaps they did, being that this is not in fact a professional reporting type forum and none of the said moderators were in fact career professional reporters were they? How ever if there is one thing that my news and journalism professors did in fact drill into my head it was that the reporter should NEVER(their caps not mine) report based on personal opinion unless it is an opinion piece. I myself was dragged through the mud by my professor for doing exactly this. He told me “Aaron, you are going to make a good dirt digger for the tabloids someday.”
And I again have to disagree with Myaoxing, Michael McManus does NOT have to give anyone ANY common courtesy or what ever your quote was, I disagree wholeheartedly, From what I read of the moderator report McManus seemed misrepresented as standoffish, however what was described in the report sounded more like shy and polite to me. Just because the guy didn’t walk up, completely interrupt the conversation and introduce himself he’s rude? Boy oh boy I wonder what you would say about me, I’m at least 10 times bitchier, meaner and less likely to be friendly to strangers than that. [img]images/smiles/icon_mad.gif[/img]
But I’m not going to make apologies for myself. [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img]In your own report you guys acknowledged that you walked right past Mr. Downey and that he had to get your attention.
Quote-
As we pushed through many rushing people, a very recognizable voice rang out, and with the distinctive Stan the Man whine said “That’s right girls, just walk right past me…” Being a well-trained New Yorker, I ignore strange men calling out to me as I walk by, but Frey was already turned around and babbling about how ‘we didn’t recognize you with your back turned.’….WE hell, I didn’t even see the tall thin man in a red jumpsuit with a red beanie!
End Quote.
Lesse you were so preoccupied that you didn’t even notice Brian. Hmm.. what does that say about you guys? If Brian had let insecurities get to him and not said anything, he might have written off you guys as having snubbed him.
Black Cloud even had this to say about Frey’s possible snubbing of McManus:
What? You two never mentioned you had the man alone in your sights for full interview time and never said anything to him! Oy Baitsim (not that I have any)! Maybe, now this is just a maybe, maybe he was actually waiting to be interviewed and possibly felt snubbed when it didn’t happen? I know, I know, too many years on psych units have this effect on you. “Take a number, pull up a couch!”
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Micheal is an employeed actor of Salter Street. He is not the “meet and greet” PR man and just because Brian Downey takes it up on himself does not mean that Micheal or anyone else is obligated to. I keep hearing how Michael was being rude and impolite. When was Michael not being polite or curteous? Did every member of Salter Street offer to take you guys out to eat? It looks like Michael was snubbed to me. All he was doing was going about his business as per usual. You guys were told ahead of time that would be the situation and not to expect anything more from anybody. But this infferrance or assumption that he was in fact snubbing you keeps turning up. It turns up in other posts as you compare Michael’s lack of interest in reaching out to the fans to others. And I can assure you that is not normally done.
When was the last time Patrick Stewart hung out in official Trek chat and asked if he wanted anyone to call them? Does this make Patrick Stewart an asshole?
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FX
Administrator
Member # 268
posted 01-11-2001 11:24 PM
——————————————————————————–quote:
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Originally posted by Aurora:
What a doll! I wonder tho, if she isn’t just being kind when she says “everyone sends regards to you and the fans.” Everyone?
——————————————————————————–now now aurora, i have to admit that i am positive mm did not give a rat’s butt about me, and possibly some of the fans what the hell, i’ll be the bad guy! however, ms dubin was obviously brought up to be a polite and gracious young lady, so we will forbear from excesses of cynicism the gesture was kind and sincere so let’s appreciate it in the spirit it was given…anyway, just as a reality check, mikey don’t surf, and i really do not believe he is losing any sleep over what three nebbishes from a website think
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(end reply)Okay.. what does Ms. Dubin have to do with Michael and why was that even brought up? Why would Michael give a rat’s butt about you at all or any of the fans, FX? Does he know you personally?
Did he tell you guys to f*ck off and not bother him? The three of you were too petrified to speak to the man. How do you know he wouldn’t have talked with you? I think your views of the man are very biased and oppinionated and not very fair and do not constitute as any kind of factual report being as this was your assumption based on your own paranoias. And when you make an assumption.. you make an ass out of yourself and [i]umption[/i].
I also believe Nigel Bennett was on the facilities according to Frey’s report, yet the pre-occupation with McManus seemed to drown out any interest in talking to Nigel. You guys totally [i]snubbed[/i] him. I mean.. the dude is Nigel f*cking Bennett!!!
thefrey : After several trips up and down the stairway from hell, I ran into the rest of our intrepid little crew. I was introduced to BlackCloud and then FX, Blackie and I brought each other up to speed on what we had been doing the last several hours. After being berated for not coming to find them when Nigel Bennet showed up, I then got the good news that I had missed getting introduced to MM.
No, Aleck.. someone presuming Michael was personally dissing them because he never approached them first, in a manner that they wanted is not worthy or reporting. Oh but wait he did approach them first..
Just as I was asking some really incisive questions about the relationship of Kai to Spock, MM wandered out. He waited until he had everyone’s attention, and then asked if Blackie and I were the ‘web board moderators’ (Electropolis had been warned of our arrival on the call sheets for October 4 and 5)…We said yes, at which point MM said “I’m Michael” and stuck out a Michael-paw. We shook, and he made some comment about my grip at which point Jason (who had rejoined us) and Lex, chimed in with “yeah she got us too”… This rapidly led to a discussion of kung fu, at which point I was more than embarrassed, and decided to move on and let Michael bitch to Jason about something or other.
—————
Oh yeah, MM.. totally rude totally dissed you guys. Lesse so he did indeed approach [i]you[/i] people first. Hmmm..
By the way, this was to be a recurring pattern with McManus; he would come out and stand silently until everyone looked at him, and then he would state his business, and people would run around to try and solve whatever was peeving him.
——————No bitterness there. “Obsess much?….”
Also I liked this bit from Frey about her chat with Louis Del Grande:
We then discussed Texas, (don’t ask X) and I made him laugh a time or two.
———————-The f*ck was that for? What because I don’t despise a state I chose to live in? You’re not from Texas. Don’t like a place… move. But don’t act like my oppinion of the place I live in is worth any less than yours. What is so great about where you come from? Does everyone like it there? I’m sure the comment was just a joke right? But then again.. how do I know? Since you people are so sure Michael was being a prick deliberately.
And if you want to get technical.. I have every right to express my discourse with what I percieved as McManus bashing from people who [i]appeared[/i] to me to be jaded by his lack of individual interest in them just as much as they have to express their personal presumptions that he was ignoring them. Never mind the fact his feelings towards these proceedings were never clearly established because heaven forbid anyone actually try talking to the guy and only do we have the oppinions of his actions as percieved through persons of a questionable oppinionated nature.
Also, Aleck, your quote:
“As has been pointed out, positive things were said about him in the piece, so it wasn’t completely tilted toward the negative side of the scales. ”That’s like saying:
“Well Aleck makes great DVDs but he never returns my e-mails so he must be some prick who doesn’t appreciate people telling him he does a good job.”But then again I’m a delusional male who thinks that any female who speaks to me is obviously sexually interested me. Right, Kali, Mary Beth, Aurora, Hypatia, and NB1? Cause obviously all of them are [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] That musta been why Ellen Dubin wanted my e-mail!!! Had nothing to do with the wallpaper that I made that she liked.
Aleck, your a good man and we don’t always agree on everything and sometimes I even agree with DalekTek790 (but not on morality [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] ), but this time I think your way off base blinded by your friendship with FX, who apparently no longer thinks very highly of me.
Bugbomb’s tone may have not been the friendliest in the world but she made some very valid points and should not be refuted just based on your dislike of her tone. After all it was FX and Frey’s tone regarding McManus that started this. Honestly this whole display has made me sick. I don’t want to see every actor mentioned in each thread compared to McManus and have it turn into a “well obviously he doesn’t like us” BS thread.
No one got on Xenia’s case for blowing off the interviews for the Acorn DVDs. Talk about snubbing the fans. And that was a professional unintrusive interview to be set aside in a professional manner and handled separately. Does that means she hates the fans? I do believe the first interview was with McManus. Tell me.. was he paid anything extra for that?
And no I don’t derive any sick pleasure in handing people I consider to be my friend an [i]ass-back refund[/i], despite what they might think.
Again.. thank you to all my [i]friends[/i] who knew about the phone call Micromary made to Brian but remained quiet instead of refuting claims that I made it all up. I appreciate it.
Now that I’ve said all that, I don’t think my leaving should be so mysterious.
[img]http://www.robohouse.com/myrobot/r2d2.gif[/img]
[ 05-11-2001: Message edited by: Xev of R2D2 ]
well well, turn my back two minutes because work intrudes and things get ugly again…
x i did not reject you; i checked for email from you until saturday pm when i had to leave for the conference; please check your box, and understand that when i am away i cannot get to a computer
gelfling, thanx for popping in, the tone was meant to be humorous; it obviously not…now would you care to tell me again how i got into this guy’s space; before he introduced himself, we walked past each other several times, with varying degrees of acknowledgment,usually just eye contact and then both parties looking away
regards brian, i was not snubbing him; as i thought was clear, i honestly didn’t see him; jason was saying something and i was looking at him and listening to what he was saying…
as for nigel, frey saw him as he ran in for a moment to the administrative area; he came in and left, blackie and i never saw him
everyone has a right to behave how they like; noone can realistically expect that people will not interpret their behavior in some way…
at any rate, these discussions seem to be more in the line of everyone sharing their feelings about celebrity and how people react to certain situations, and that is how it should be…In a time-saving move, I’m replying to 2 posts in one.
quote:
Originally posted by Gelfling:
MMMMMM…….
I’m going to have to disagree with both Aleck and Myaoxing about the fact that the reporters had the right to report from their own POV, well, perhaps they did, being that this is not in fact a professional reporting type forum and none of the said moderators were in fact career professional reporters were they? How ever if there is one thing that my news and journalism professors did in fact drill into my head it was that the reporter should NEVER(their caps not mine) report based on personal opinion unless it is an opinion piece.
…But what no one seems to be getting is that it *was* an opinion piece. Inasmuch as any bit of entertainment writing is an opinion piece at heart. It was a personal review of 3 moderators’ trip to Halifax, and as such involves personal opinions and impressions. It was not a dry piece of reportage on the latest bill to be brought up in the Senate. It’s nearly impossible to do a piece of this nature in that way. See my example of Bob Dylan’s press coverage.
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quote:
Originally posted by Xev of R2D2:
Aleck, your a good man and we don’t always agree on everything and sometimes I even agree with DalekTek790 (but not on morality ), but this time I think your way off base blinded by your friendship with FX, who apparently no longer thinks very highly of me.
That is a total piece of BS. I have never refrained from taking FX to task for any wrong assumptions I feel she has made, either privately or publicly, which is something that marks any friendship I have. I am honest with my friends, and I have no problem telling them when they’ve said something I feel is wrong. Whether or not I agree with *any* author’s comments in the piece is immaterial, though. I have never posted that I agree with them (as I wasn’t there and have no first-hand evidence to support that their interpretation would jibe with mine), but that they had every right to say what they saw as well as what they felt. If I thought FX was out of line with any of her comments, I’d say so. Same with BlackCloud or thefrey. I find your statement that anything else is true about me to be at least as insulting as DT’s homophobic comments. Possibly even moreso, as he wasn’t making assumptions about me personally.
…And I’m still trying to figure out what this is all about:quote:
Also, Aleck, your quote:
“As has been pointed out, positive things were said about him in the piece, so it wasn’t completely tilted toward the negative side of the scales. ”That’s like saying:
“Well Aleck makes great DVDs but he never returns my e-mails so he must be some prick who doesn’t appreciate people telling him he does a good job.”
No, it would be like saying that if it were TRUE. In addition to the assumption you made above, I also resent your implication that I never return your emails. Which is even more BS-filled than your above statement. I sometimes don’t have time to reply to every email you send my way, but other than FX, I’ve had more personal contact and conversation with you off-the-board than I have with anyone else here. I have always enjoyed conversing with you, and hope to continue to enjoy that. I didn’t reply to your email to me last night because I didn’t want to find myself in the middle of an argument between two people I consider friends, and I didn’t want to offend you while you were apparantly angry and hurt by refusing to play the “the enemy of my friend is my enemy, and the enemy of my enemy is my friend” game. I make my own opinions and I draw my own conclusions, as I did in a situation that needs not be brought up here (but I’m sure you know what I mean). Because you sometimes agree with DT, that doesn’t mean that I consider you a foe. The opposite is the case.
It’s clear to me that many (if not most) of the people who are making so much out of so little as regards Mr. McManus are doing so because they are blinded by the fact that they’re tremendous fans of his work (or his looks). If it were someone they weren’t fans of, the people criticzing the write-up would be silent.
It’s also clear to me, X, that your post (or at least the hostile tone of it) is due to the fact that you are blinded by your feelings of being either slighted or insulted (or both), as your communiques to me about the “Michael-bashing” have been fairly mild up until this point.
–Aleck
[i]Bygones.[/i]
— Richard Fish, [i]Ally McBeal[/i] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img][i]Why can’t people just be nice?[/i]
— Chi-Chian, [i][url=http://www.scifi.com/chichian]Voltaire’s Chi-Chian at SciFi.Com[/url][/i] [img]images/smiles/icon_sad.gif[/img][ 05-11-2001: Message edited by: Flamegrape ]
Devil’s advocate part deux
I think everyone here is adult enough to have their opinion expressed logically and without malice, but there seems to be an underlying current of hostility here on this last thread, something I didn’t expect to see on this topic. I’m not sure what the hostility is all about, the topic is not that controversial, as far as I can see. But I think it boils down to, is that some people think there should not be a ‘rule’ about courtesy to total strangers, and some people think there should be. I guess it’s all a matter of how you were raised. Some people raised in a privileged environment, don’t beleive in courtesy to others they feel are ‘beneath’ them. Others have been taught that courtesy is good breeding, I guess it’s all a matter of perspective.
quote:
Originally posted by Aleck:
…But what no one seems to be getting is that it *was* an opinion piece. Inasmuch as any bit of entertainment writing is an opinion piece at heart. It was a personal review of 3 moderators’ trip to Halifax, and as such involves personal opinions and impressions. It was not a dry piece of reportage on the latest bill to be brought up in the Senate. It’s nearly impossible to do a piece of this nature in that way. See my example of Bob Dylan’s press coverage.
Maybe if we retitle the piece “Commentary on the Moderators Trip to Halifax” or “Moderators Personal Impressions of Halifax”, it might clear up some confusion and serve to defuse this raging controversy. [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by Jason:
Maybe if we retitle the piece “Commentary on the Moderators Trip to Halifax” or “Moderators Personal Impressions of Halifax”, it might clear up some confusion and serve to defuse this raging controversy. [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
I think that this may be of little help, good idea though it is. The problem is not in that people are complaining about the expression of opinion — in fact, nobody has complained about the perceived lack of objectivity in the presentation of Brian Downey or Rolf Kaines or Patricia Zentilli. The problem seems to lie simply in the fact that some negative remarks were made about Mr. McManus. Even if this were presented as a purely opinion piece or a review (which it is closest to in essence…I still argue that in entertainment writing — which seems to be something separate from “real” journalism unless you’re just reporting on the latest events in the life of a celebrity, such as in [i]Rolling Stone[/i]’s “Random Notes” column — most articles and interviews rely heavily on the reporter as participant; this is also the case in those works of journalism that cross the border of journalism and non-fiction literature, such as Tom Wolfe’s and Hunter S. Thompson’s works — not that I’m comparing, mind you [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] ), I think that the negative reaction would be the same. Keep in mind, however, that the number of people complaining is relatively small. The complaints of a small handful of people isn’t really a reason to change either the text or the title, IMHO.
–Aleck
I’m sorta on the tail end of this topic, but what I can ascertain is whether MM is right to behave in a certain manner.
Well I’d have to say ‘yes’ to a degree, the reason being that he is undoubtedly the actor that would be pestered by the strange fans out there above Brian and maybe Xenia.
Your average fan would respect the privacy of the actor and only approach if encouraged to do so, whereas the hardcore element see the actor/actress as public property and feel it is within their rights to talk or bother the actor.
Now if I was an actor, I would soon begin to feel that my privacy was being invaded by people who felt as if they knew me personally, and would judge that all the small minority of hardcore fans make it impossible to access the ‘normal’ fans.
But the Halifax trip wasn’t like a Britney Spears backstage pass, with several hysterical fans screaming upon sight of their heroes.
FX, Blackie and the Frey were there in two capacities, one was for their own enjoyment, and the other was for this board.
In a sense they were journalists doing a job that they enjoyed, so maybe MM could have responded with a little more politeness than he showed.
Having said that, maybe he wanted to encourage fans to stay away from him, or maybe he has fell into the trap of believing in his own stardom too much, and has become a prima-donna, either way, we’ll never know.
But having heard that he tends to be shy, makes it more likely that he prefers to shun the spotlight, and let others take centre-stage.
Anyway, I do feel sorry for most celebs when their private lives are interrupted, but then some embrace it, while others do not, and it’s difficult to tell which.
Squishyquote:
Originally posted by 02138:
Hey X,I’m kinda surprised that you’ve managed to alienate anyone out there as you seem to be one of the more detached .
Dude, I’m like the [i]alienation[/i] f*ckin’ master.
quote:
Originally posted by 02138:
Anyway, I don’t usually post on any boards, but you sound so dejected…
No it’s nothing to do with that.
FX, I got your e-mail that day and replied the same day well before the evening, unless when you say you checked until “pm” you literally mean 12pm noon. Anyways, I really couldn’t make heads or tails of your reply and thought what I said had ****ed you off and that your response was directed at me in some way. I stand by my oppinions on this McGarbo matter and the only reason I never said anything before was because I didn’t want to get into malicious disagreements with my friends as this has already gotten to be a touchy matter and since it usually doesn’t take you 2 days to respond I thought you had already written me off especially because I thought you were ****ed at me because how things were worded. So it’s not like I would have to worry about offending a friend with my comments. I apologize in the most profuse way but you really need to clarify what the hell you were saying because I was really offended by it at the time.
I am not trying to say Aleck doesn’t return e-mails because he does. Or that I think Frey was deliberately poking fun at me, I thought it was sweet that she mentioned me in a joking way. All I was doing was using these things as an example to how we ALL do things that can be misconstrued as meaning something else or something more (which was apparently a bad mistake). Obvisously I misconstrued some things my friend FX said although we have an established friendship which should be devoid of such things, but people aren’t perfect, especially moi.
I am still planning on being gone for a while and I do not wish to leave with any ill feelings, regards, or misconceptions. This is like so why I never say anything.
But, Aleck.. I still think your WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Big grumpy sigh here…..
FX, I did not mean to imply that YOU got all up in Michael’s face, I was simply stating what the guy has to endure on a regular basis as to give insight in to why he is not Mr Congeniality (spelling errors aside I’m tired and have no spell check on this infernal machine).
Kudos to Xev of R2D2 (is that X?) for his/her analogy of Patrick Stweart not hanging with the trekkies. In fact, I giggle now to think of this, but I myself once had the opportunity to run smack into Mr Stewart at a farmers market in Greenwich Village quite a few years back. At the time I was a college student and a friend playfully shoved me while walking through said market. Well, I lost my footing and tumbled into an older, well dressed gentleman inspecting some apples(or some other arbitrary fruit). I made my apologies as would be expected and that’s when I heard the voice of our beloved Enterprise captain rip me a new bumhole for not “watching where I was going”. I was about 18 or 19 at the time and I was shocked. I’m not saying the guy didn’t have the right to lay into me,just saying that I realized then these people are human.
I think this whole business has gone to far and really, people are people, actors as well. Look at Eddie Vedder (SP?) the guy from Pearl Jam, I doubt there is a bigger pr*ck in show business, but people still listen to them.On a completely unrelated topic, DalekTek790: a froudian? I am afraid I do not understand, I assume this is a Dark Crystal reference which I should get but I will admit, I’m not the type who would memorize all the characters and creatures, hell I can not even spell Sketzie(those bird type dudes)
FlameGrape: Very nice quotes, I’m a big fan of Chi Chan,and it might also be noted that Voltaire is a pretty decent sort of celeb as well.
Cheers,
Gelflingquote:
Originally posted by Gelfling:
Big grumpy sigh here….. …..I’m tired and have no spell check on this infernal machine
[b]Hello Gelfling. Welcome to the board.
I agree with you on the Spellcheck thing. Lord knows I would pay major money to have a decent spell checker program for that worked here. Oh, and while we are wishing for the moon, I’d like one on Mirc too!!! [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img][/b]
“Froudian” would refer to fans of Brian Froud, the genius who brought us The Dark Crystal, Labyrinth and several books on mythology and folklore.
I could go on and on about [i]The Dark Crystal[/i], but I don’t want to disrupt your thread.
——————
“Exterminate!” -Dalek warrior, [i]The Daleks[/i]: Episode 4-[i]The Ambush[/i]
“Feel the power of the dark Crystal!” -skekTek the Scientist, [i]The Dark Crystal[/i]
“I will love you forever!” -drone #790, [i]Lexx 1.1: I Worship His Shadow[/i]
quote:
Originally posted by Gelfling:
[b]MMMMMM…….
I’m going to have to disagree with both Aleck and Myaoxing about the fact that the reporters had the right to report from their own POV, well, perhaps they did, being that this is not in fact a professional reporting type forum and none of the said moderators were[/b]
I think you’ve put your finger on the problem. The
Moderators were there in an ambivalent role, which is not surprising since this is the first time this sort of report has been written for the board (I think??) They were obviously there as more than fans, but not normally being reporters didn’t write with the kind of “distance” a professional reporter should have. Actions (or non-actions) that don’t sound like much at all to me reading the report seem to have been taken very personally. It’s anentertaining read, but it’s not necessarily fair. I guess our reactions come partially from how we would have approached this “assignment”.I do however feel strongly that at their workplace people (even actors!) have a right to be left alone if that is important to them. If someone blows off an agreed on interview, that’s a totally different story, it’s rude and unprofessional. But nothing was promised in this case–and the guy seems to have shaken hands and introduced himself. That’s more polite than I’ve been at times.
Also, when is one of you Canadian readers going to step up and mount a defense against these expectations of unnatural politeness that we seem to have of you [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]. Or is there really some good behaviour virus floating around up there? [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
elmey
quote:
Originally posted by Aleck:
It’s clear to me that many (if not most) of the people who are making so much out of so little as regards Mr. McManus are doing so because they are blinded by the fact that they’re tremendous fans of his work (or his looks). If it were someone they weren’t fans of, the people criticzing the write-up would be silent.–Aleck
Again.. contrary to that remark: I’ve noticed that most people that are defending McManus, aside from Bugbomb, are not what I would call “Kai-droolers”. In fact, most of the people agreeing with FX and Frey’s impression of McManus seem to be the people who are his biggest fans, dare I mention the members of APEC.
Of course I can only speak for myself, but I’ve never rented or bought [i]Speaking Parts[/i] or flown to Canada just to see McManus perform in a play.
However, I would like to see more movies by Paul Donavon that came before LEXX as to how they may relate in tone or scope. Of course Michael is in [i]Paint Cans[/i], but I wouldn’t be watching it just to see him perform, no offense to his abilities.
And I hope you will take this post as what it is and not some bitter business.
Also, you are arguing against other people’s oppinions of the report itself. You can’t determine for someone else how they percieve what is written just as no one can control the impressions of the moderators.
I am not doing this because I feel you have slighted me, God knows I’ve gotten 2 or 3 e-mails before from you apologizing profusely to me for not writing back sooner. It’s really not neccessary my friend to do that but I appreciated the gesture. However, accusing me of trying to play games is pretty hurtful and that was never my intention. Again, I wasn’t even reffering to that stuff and meant this:
[i]That’s like saying:
“Well Aleck makes great DVDs but he never returns my e-mails so he must be some prick who doesn’t appreciate people telling him he does a good job.”[/i].. as an example to show you how it might feel if someone accused of snubbing them for lack of getting back to them as promptly as they would have liked. You are here to refute such claims and clear up any miscommunications. However Michael is not here and he was accused of snubbing people because he did not immediately recognize the moderators and greet them with smiles. Which is not unusual on a movie set as there are many people running and standing around that may have be on their way somewhere or called to another area on a moments notice. I have exeperienced the phenomon/paranoia of “he snubbed me” and “that guy’s an ass” first hand on every set and shoot I’ve worked on. Hell, even I’ve been accused of rude and snobbish behavior before on these shoots. Most of the times people are just letting their insecurities get the better of them as it’s mostly unfounded and very reminiscent of highschool-like behavior.
And the alleged snubbing is not unlike highschool girls saying:
“Oh! He’s so cute, but he doesn’t even know I’m alive.”-Ack.
Most of the time the actors are only familiar with the director and those working closely with them on the set. It is not uncommon, epsecially on series like LEXX, to have new people on and off all the time performing various tasks around the set.
Michael avoiding Frey while she was getting her notes together.. he had no idea who Frey was. She could have been anybody writing down anything. Frey could have iniated a “hi”. Instead she just looked at him. Perhaps he moved to give her more privacy. Perhaps he thought her looking at him was like a silent “um.. I’m busy here. A little privacy.”
It’s not uncommon for people to ask what you’re doing on the set, because like I said people come and go. I mean in big work places, you don’t say “hi” to everyone that walks past your desk do you? They are supposed to be there just as you are, probably doing a job that’s none of your business and vice versa and leaving people be to do their jobs is not an uncommon thing, again.. especially on a set where there are people running all over the place doing different things.
I don’t doubt there are people who work on LEXX that don’t like McManus but that’s gonna be common in any work environment. Typically, I’ve experienced that film crews typically despise the actors and feel easily put off by them, dare I say “snubbed” or call them “assholes”.
Then again, the hell do I know?
[ 07-11-2001: Message edited by: Xev of R2D2 ]
DalekTek790:
Ahhhhh….
My eyes are opened [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Please, go on and on, I love both The Dark Crystal AND Labrynth, so unbeknownst to me I *AM* a Froudian….
thank you for the enlightenment [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]quote:
posted by Xev of R2D2:
In fact, most of the people agreeing with FX and Frey’s impression of McManus seem to be the people who are his biggest fans, dare I mention the members of APEC.
Why are you afraid to mention APEC? And why bring that up here? These are two different BBs, with very different subject matter. These peeps don’t know anything about APEC, and I’m willing to bet they’d prefer to keep it that way.
And if anyone has any questions, they can certainly go to the SciFi BB and see who is doing what. [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by Gelfling:
Please, go on and on, I love both The Dark Crystal AND Labrynth, so unbeknownst to me I *AM* a Froudian….
thank you for the enlightenment [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Yes, sweet Gelfling essence!
[img]http://www.geocities.com/lady_cathleen/dimages/d_1kira.jpg[/img]
If you want to talk [i]Crystal[/i], Flamegrape opened up a new topic about the movie on the General Sci-Fi board.
By the way, the reason I have “Whovian, Froudian, Lexxian” in my standard signature is because the three components of my moniker are from [i]Doctor Who[/i], [i]The Dark Crystal[/i], and [i]Lexx[/i] respectively. In case you hadn’t already figured that out.
[ 07-11-2001: Message edited by: DalekTek790 ]
Just another thing about posting images, DT.
Be careful when posting images from some free servers (geocities, yahoo, angelfire) because they don’t allow linking directly to images. If you have the image in your personal cache, it will show up, but only for you. For anyone else, it will either show the “broken image” symbol or, in the case of angelfire, a dumb logo.
Just another bit o’ help.
–Aleck
quote:
Originally posted by Aleck:
Just another thing about posting images, DT.Be careful when posting images from some free servers (geocities, yahoo, angelfire) because they don’t allow linking directly to images. If you have the image in your personal cache, it will show up, but only for you. For anyone else, it will either show the “broken image” symbol or, in the case of angelfire, a dumb logo.
Just another bit o’ help.
–Aleck
Yup, I’ve noticed the same thing happening before. That’s why I’ve set up a directory on my website called /pic where I place all my misc. images usually used for the specific purpose of posting images to bboards. I suppose in a few years it might fill up with all sorts of weird collections of jpegs and gif files. I suppose I’ll open a gallery in Soho.
quote:
Originally posted by Xev of R2D2:
….However Michael is not here and he was accused of snubbing people because he did not immediately recognize the moderators and greet them with smiles.
Sigh……… How on earth you got the idea that any of us expected to be immediately recognized by any of the people at Salter Street, I have no idea. Heck I know I spent half my time introducing myself and explaining who and what Sadgeezers was.
Michael avoiding Frey while she was getting her notes together.. he had no idea who Frey was. She could have been anybody writing down anything. Frey could have iniated a “hi”. Instead she just looked at him. Perhaps he moved to give her more privacy. Perhaps he thought her looking at him was like a silent “um.. I’m busy here. A little privacy.” [07-11-2001: Message edited by: Xev of R2D2 ][/QUOTE]
Look, I never said that I thought MM was avoiding me while I was writing my notes. I did not even know he was in the studio at first. He was several feet away, mostly turned away, as he was when FX brought his presence to my attention. I myself would have thought it rude to start staring at someone, just because they were famous, but that’s just me. I did glance over at him, I am human you know, [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] but again, he was not facing in my direction and could not have seen that.
Moving away to give me privacy? As far as I know, he was never over on my side of the set while they were doing these shots.
I’m not familiar with sound stages as some people, but I am pretty sure that rushing over and starting a conversation in the middle of a very small set while they were trying to shoot would have gotten me in trouble. Not to mention how rude it would have been to have interrupted some ones work.
quote:
Originally posted by elfie:
…..but i wasn’t there, i didn’t see his face and body language …
*G*
take care
elfie
[b]True.[/b]
But I think you would have enjoyed ninty-nine percent of the trip elfie. I wish you and the others could have been there, it was marvelous.
Ummmm *G* ???
I wish we could have gone too! I would have been in heaven if I could have watched them shooting an episode, whether anybody talked to me or not. And I wish I could have seen MMcM in the flesh just so I could decide for myself what kind of person I think he is.
*G* means “grin”
[img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by dgrequeen:
I wish we could have gone too! I would have been in heaven if I could have watched them shooting an episode, whether anybody talked to me or not. *G* means “grin”[img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
hmmm, i’m sorry if this got lost in the translation, but i [b]was[/b] in heaven watching them film, that was what my poor attempt at describing mm singing for brian was about…i am disappointed as a fan that mm lobbied for that particular ending, but as a person, i think that he did the right thing, both for him, and for the integrity of lexx and kai as we know and love the two…and again, although this did not come across apparently, the only time i disapproved of anything mm did was the reference to a particular fan as a geek; i thought that was unfortunate…
there were other odd events that i do not wish to discuss any further that contributed to my confusion as to where mm was coming from, and i guess that came out as more negative than i had intended; i tried to relay things humorously, but apparently there was more of an edge there than should be taken as a final word by anyone…i still admire him as a performer, and i don’t think anyone should think any the less of him because of ‘the report’…nor do i believe anyone does; you either ‘like’ him, or you don’t…and that, to quote forrest gump, is all i am going to say about [b]that[/b] [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by FX:
there were other odd events that i do not wish to discuss any further that contributed to my confusion as to where mm was coming from, and i guess that came out as more negative than i had intended; i tried to relay things humorously, but apparently there was more of an edge there than should be taken as a final word by anyone…
Bah. Don’t let them get you down. There is no pleasing everyone, and you, Blackcloud and thefrey came close to doing just that. There are going to be people who, for whatever their reasons, are going to criticize you if you report something negative (or that could possibly be *construed* as negative) about *anyone* (particularly MM), and don’t understand the difference between objective journalism and entertainment writing. That’s a problem in their perception, and not in the writing.
–Aleck
Hi, FX, I know you are sworn to secrecy and I would never expect you to break your word but after hearing so many times that the ending of Lexx is the one MM lobbied for…. I’m getting the impression he is quite tired of Kai right now, I’ll bet that Kai is destroyed in the final episode…time will tell but I just have this feeling….
Something tells me I should stock up on tissues now……like 24 or 25 boxes
quote:
Originally posted by elfie:
from reading the interview… i do think the moderators were overly obsessed with mm, and it was my biggest complaint aside from the 3- way thing lol ;o) but it still had lots of good info, and i think most fans would have focused on their fave actor on the show, whether theirs was brian or xenia or whoever. they are obviously not professional journalists so i’m not going to make anything out of whether their article was a bit on the “yellow” side or not.
I think that’s true. If I had gone on the trip, I would have focused more on Xenia. I would have done my modest best to have some sort of interview with her. [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
I’m sure Kai will go out in a glorious finish, as befits his character. I was never even expecting the series to get this far, especially after MM had constantly said before this that season 3 would be his last turn aroung the track, but I’m glad he stayed for this last season. I know he’s tired of this role, as he has stated before, it has overshadowed everything else he’s ever done, which apparently, he is very uncomfortable with. I’m sure he’s already made his peace, and his break with the show, even though we won’t see that yet, MM has gone his seperate way from Lexx and on to bigger and better things. I wish him the best of luck, and hope to have the privilege of seeing him perform in something else that may accomodate his blistering talent. [img]images/smiles/icon_sad.gif[/img]
oh and btw… i think we are being too hard on the moderators, too!!! lol! ;o)
::sigh:: after all that’s been said, i think i can say that i’ve definately come to understand the moderators better now than i had right after reading the article… thanks for taking so much effort to explain yourselves.
take care
elfiequote:
Originally posted by thefrey:
[b]True.[/b]
But I think you would have enjoyed ninty-nine percent of the trip elfie. I wish you and the others could have been there, it was marvelous.
Ummmm *G* ???
I just want to point out for those that may not have noticed that there are now TWO elfies on the board – the Original Recipe elfie, aka elfkin, is me. The newer (and perhaps improved and Crunchier recipe) elfie is someone else (don’t even know if they’re male or female).
Thought I’d better mention it on the off chance that people start thinking we’re the same person.
BTW, nice to meet you, elfie#2! I know I wish we could all have been there (personally, I would have been down in the gutter gaurding the twinkies and cupcakes, which I’m SURE FX would have been attempting to steal at some point [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] )!
That said, I’d just like to say that my opinion of MM hasn’t changed because of the article. I don’t take the moderators POV as a jibe at him. It wasn’t a NEWS article, it was more of a story, in my opinion, and therefore shouldn’t have to keep to any sort of rules regarding journalism. And from reading about other peoples meetings with the man I’ve gotten many different impressions about how he is when meeting people. We all have different sides, I’m sure he does, too. Unsure of why there’s any kind of battle going on about it. And FX, for the record, I’m pretty sure I saw the humor in it (remember, these are the gutter girls that often mention being tea-totaled – I expect a certain measure of antics and goofery from their exploits, no matter WHAT the exploits are). I’m just happy to have an article/story to read at all!
So, that’s my piece. I’ve said it, and whether or not anyone wants to flog me for it is their business (I’m more than willing to receive a few and give a few, believe you me). And on something completely OT, AB FAB IS ON TONIGHT! Which means if you need me, you can find me back in the gutter with the twinkies and wine and ciggies, happily giggling over another pair of gutter girls and their exploits.
‘Nuff said…
~Original Recipe elfie
quote:
Originally posted by elfkin:
there are now TWO elfies on the board – the Original Recipe elfie, aka elfkin, is me. The newer (and perhaps improved and Crunchier recipe) elfie is someone else (don’t even know if they’re male or female).
[i]hey elfkin! missed you, i have to admit i was confused by the new and improved elfie on her first post; she didn’t sound like you at all [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]…events over the last few weeks then convinced me she wasn’t you [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]…[/i]
(personally, I would have been down in the gutter gaurding the twinkies and cupcakes, which I’m SURE FX would have been attempting to steal at some point [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] )!
[i]damn straight! as senior gutter rat (at least chronologically)i would have been sampling all the twinkies [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] unfortunately, there were no twinkies to snatch, and no elfie to get into a really ugly sewerwrestling match with…so i had to entertain myself [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]…[/i]
And FX, for the record, I’m pretty sure I saw the humor in it (remember, these are the gutter girls that often mention being tea-totaled – I expect a certain measure of antics and goofery from their exploits, no matter WHAT the exploits are).
[i] thanx sweetie, i think explanations were in order for those who were not long timers in the gutter…but i am happy to know you knew where i was coming from[/i]
AB FAB IS ON TONIGHT! Which means if you need me, you can find me back in the gutter with the twinkies and wine and ciggies, happily giggling over another pair of gutter girls and their exploits.
[i]and on that note, the gutter is officially reopened; elfkin is the official distributor of the hostess cupcakes, and i am the grande doyenne of twinkies…the cigarettes are catch as catch can (you do menthol elfkin, don’t you?) oh, and the wine is free until 9p, when lexx starts…after that you are on your own… [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img][/i]
‘Nuff said…
~Original Recipe elfie
quote:
Originally posted by FX:
and on that note, the gutter is officially reopened; elfkin is the official distributor of the hostess cupcakes, and i am the grande doyenne of twinkies…the cigarettes are catch as catch can (you do menthol elfkin, don’t you?) oh, and the wine is free until 9p, when lexx starts…after that you are on your own…
alas, no, I am not a fan of the menthol… I like mine light with no minty flavor, thank you. As to the wine being free til 9, when LEXX starts, I do believe you had a momentary brain lapse, as it is Absolutely Fabulous that we will be handing out free wine for [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]. I don’t think Lexx calls for wine, do you? It needs something… a little less refined. Hehehe… maybe a midori margarita or something with a nice green tint…
As to the cupcakes, I’m passing them out now, so if you want some chocolatey goodness, kindly line up! They won’t last long and I’m quite afraid that the male flavored cupcakes and twinkies will all be gone shortly [insert manical laughter here]. Pass the beluga!
Alrighty then… boy, it feels good to be back in my corner of the gutter *wallows in her puddle of sewer slime* Ooo, it’s still squishy!
[I apologize in advance to those that are miffed by mine and FX’s sudden change of topic to a show entirely un-scifi related. However, I’ll hope you agree that Ab Fab at least merits a little cult status, not to mention brownie points for being delightfully tacky]
yes, i am a totally seperate elf, hehe. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] i bake no cupcakes and generally dislike sweets — so freyed was right to think i was not you, lol [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_cool.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by elfie:
so freyed was right to think i was not you, lol [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_cool.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img]
freyed?! somebody’s been at the wine already [img]images/smiles/icon_cool.gif[/img]
ab fab is a completely permissable o/t elfkin, as soon as i can tear myself away from iwhs i will slosh over to your side of the gutter for ab fest! [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] stop bogarting that pack of ciggies [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
It has been a while since I have visited this board and it would seem I have missed a lot in the last few months. I am not supprised to hear that Micheal McManus is not as friendly as Brian Downey. To MM’s credit though I must point out that at this years UnCon he very graciously visited with fans at the Shoe on his private time (even though some of them behaved somwhat like sharks circling a meal)…although he DID seem somewhat uncomfortable (like a dear caught in headlights). I had a very nice chat with him about my beverage choice (yes, he passed up the blow job for a becks..hehe) and my home state after he caught my lingering Texas accent….he was interested in the Lone Star State for some reason or the other, although we didn’t get to discuss it for long enough for me to find out why simply because so many others were demanding a bit of his time as well. He even approached myself and Less the next evening to say hello entirely of his own accord which supprised us both because we observed many other fans blatently hounding him when he obviously was trying to just chill out and have a beer after a long work day. My personal observance is that MM is perhaps somewhat shy by nature and much better one on one than in a crowd…contrasted with Brian Downey’s generous and gregarious nature…all I can say is both men are one in a million [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]…when it comes to the fans….they are just a million miles apart [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] Just my two cents [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img])
quote:
Originally posted by FX:
freyed?! somebody’s been at the wine already 😎
eeeps! i have buddy who’s handle is frayed- i just didn’t know where i was for a moment! lol
😀 :p 😀
quote:
Originally posted by necro:
It has been a while since I have visited this board and it would seem I have missed a lot in the last few months.
hi necro, wow it’s like old home week here [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] …not sure about this, but one of the five aunts mm mentioned in the [b]scifi chat[/b] is [b]helen shaver[/b], and i think she lives in texas at least part of the year, this was a nice little surprise as i had enjoyed her in film and television before becoming a lexx addict…i read all the ‘interviews’ i could get to on all the lexx principals before going to hali so that, if given the opportunity, i would not ask the same questions…anyway, good to see ya back, don’t be a stranger no more [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by elfie:
eeeps! i have buddy who’s handle is frayed- i just didn’t know where i was for a moment! lol
[img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
[img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] yeah sure, you were just nipping at the maker’s mark [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] (spent many years in lou-ah-vulle [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img])
quote:
Originally posted by FX:
[img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] yeah sure, you were just nipping at the maker’s mark [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] (spent many years in lou-ah-vulle [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img])
hey, i don’t know frey… how was i supposed to know of her drinking problem you eluded to? lol [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by elfie:
hey, i don’t know frey… how was i supposed to know of her drinking problem you eluded to? lol [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Hey!!!! I don’t have a drinking problem! I can stop drinking gingerale any time I want! 🙂
ooopss, were we talking about someone else? Hummnnn well I should have known it wasn’t me when wine was mentioned. I just cannot abide whine… I mean wine, or both. Or Beer. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by thefrey:
I just cannot abide whine… I mean wine, or both. Or Beer. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
[img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] too true, the shoe’s economy was not noticeably improved by frey’s visits there [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
there was a shortage of ginger ale and rolaids in halifax noted after our visit though… [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
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