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yea verily the plot thickens, nice to see the evil spike back even if it is the new big bad (the new improved spike is , after all, not even a little naughty anymore
)so, aleck, looks like the doubts planted last week are having some growth; willow brought up the idea that just because the being was evil didn’t mean it wasn’t speaking the truth, and anya verified that she always told the truth, and didn’t little dawnie look worried? liked aimee mann bitching about playing vampire towns, and the awkward pause when one of spike’s (?) children got dusted at the bronze…so what do you guys think, did real spike ‘turn’ all those missing kids, or is it the big bad? and if so, can the big bad only work on damaged people, or demons, since willow had no problem discerning that the thing that was talking to her was evil when it suggested to her that she kill herself? and while we are on that topic, and sort of continuing from last week’s minidiscussion, why is it even fantasy writers from hollywood with no real grounding in ‘the occult’ can tell what is true evil, when all the religious fundamentalists seem to have real problems discerning good from evil? just a thought, forget i said it…can’t wait to see what happens to giles, now can we?
Wait a second! Buffy was on tonight?! When I turned on UPN tonight, my local affilate was showing a stupid Sixers basketball game instead! Do networks usually allow their affiliates to not braodacast their primetime programming?
Newkate (or anyone)- Can you please help a fellow geezer out with a quick epsiode review?
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Originally posted by FX:
so, aleck, looks like the doubts planted last week are having some growth; willow brought up the idea that just because the being was evil didn’t mean it wasn’t speaking the truth, and anya verified that she always told the truth, and didn’t little dawnie look worried?
Indeed. You have something there.
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so what do you guys think, did real spike ‘turn’ all those missing kids, or is it the big bad?
I think that the big bad was able to manipulate Spike to the point where he wasn’t aware of the pain (via the blackouts), and Spike offed the kids (and the owner of the house), because Spike’s now got the “taste” again and is going to have to go cold turkey in the next ep. I was, indeed, pretty wrong about the chip not working anymore, but I still think that this was the work of the real flesh and bloodthirsty Spikey.
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and while we are on that topic, and sort of continuing from last week’s minidiscussion, why is it even fantasy writers from hollywood with no real grounding in ‘the occult’ can tell what is true evil, when all the religious fundamentalists seem to have real problems discerning good from evil?
Well, I’d not go so far as to say that the Buffy staff’s got no real grounding in the occult. I don’t think that any of them are LHP’ers, but I still think that the Willow stuff is close enough to Wicca to show a decent knowledge of it. And, going on the “Hush” episode where Willow goes to a Wicca campus organization, they *know* what some of these folks are like.
To quote:
quote:
Willow: Talk. All talk. “Blah, blah, Gaia. Blah, blah, moon. Menstrual life-force power thingy.”
Buffy: No actual witches in your witch group?
Willow: No. Bunch of wanna-blessed-be’s. Nowadays every girl with a henna tattoo and a spice rack thinks she’s a sister to the dark ones.
Oh, they’ve got grounding.
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can’t wait to see what happens to giles, now can we?
Can’t wait at all! Damned cliffhangers.
–Aleck
[ 20-11-2002: Message edited by: Aleck ]
I think that the big bad was able to manipulate Spike to the point where he wasn’t aware of the pain (via the blackouts), and Spike offed the kids (and the owner of the house), because Spike’s now got the “taste” again and is going to have to go cold turkey in the next ep. I was, indeed, pretty wrong about the chip not working anymore, but I still think that this was the work of the real flesh and bloodthirsty Spikey.
so you are positing a sort of manifestation, with no real powers to act on its own besides talking/maintaining a shape and manipulating others? would this preclude possession as well? i think this critter not only takes shape, but can act on its own…i think it killed the people, then woke spike up to bury them and eventually remember the burials, although spike does not seem to actually remember the killings…and wouldn’t the big bad want to torture spike more by making him remember the killings themselves? spike’s soul is making him suffer for all the killings he has committed, and this thing is all about creating pain and dissension…
Well, I’d not go so far as to say that the Buffy staff’s got no real grounding in the occult. I don’t think that any of them are LHP’ers, but I still think that the Willow stuff is close enough to Wicca to show a decent knowledge of it. And, going on the “Hush” episode where Willow goes to a Wicca campus organization, they *know* what some of these folks are like.
To quote:
Willow: Talk. All talk. “Blah, blah, Gaia. Blah, blah, moon. Menstrual life-force power thingy.”
Buffy: No actual witches in your witch group?Willow: No. Bunch of wanna-blessed-be’s. Nowadays every girl with a henna tattoo and a spice rack thinks she’s a sister to the dark ones.[/b]
unfortunately, any prolonged exposure to new-age type morons, as is wont to occur in la-la land, is going to give you at least the vocabulary, but not necessarily the syntax…i am just thinking about marti noxon talking about having all these books about demonology around, and joss whedon just telling her to forget all that, they are just making up demons as they go along to facilitate the story/make the allegory
work… Oh, they’ve got grounding.
may i snidely remind you how annoying groups of satanists can be? except that hey are usually discussing investments and summer homes ?
[ 20-11-2002: Message edited by: FX ]
quote:
Originally posted by FX:
so you are positing a sort of manifestation, with no real powers to act on its own besides talking/maintaining a shape and manipulating others?
No, not really. I’m not saying that it’s incapable of doing so, but that it’s in its best interest to *not* do so while posing as Spike. I could be wrong here, I admit, but I think that it was aiming to put Spike in action in order to have Buffy kill him later. I don’t know why, as none of this being’s plans are really clear right now, but it was obvious that it was trying to get Spike caught and sacrificed by the Slayer (particularly when “he” confronts himself and tells him that it’s not time for this to happen yet, and that he’s ruining the plan). If it were the being that was actually doing the killing, Buffy may have caught it in the act (and in Spike’s guise) and attempted to kill him. If she were successful in injuring the Big Bad, it could throw off its plans. Plus, there’s next week’s exploration of his “addiction,” which seems to be newly found (though he is a vamp, he did seem to have his thirst for human blood under control).
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i think it killed the people, then woke spike up to bury them and eventually remember the burials, although spike does not seem to actually remember the killings…and wouldn’t the big bad want to torture spike more by making him remember the killings themselves? spike’s soul is making him suffer for all the killings he has committed, and this thing is all about creating pain and dissension…
Well, he did seem to remember the killings and attacks pretty well toward the end of the episode, when the big bad let go of his head. I think that perhaps the big bad was blocking those memories, and was planning on unleashing them at a later date in order to severely up his self-loathing quotient (possibly to increase Spike’s dependence on the big bad — remember his crying out for him to stop the memories, like he was doing earlier? — or maybe to simply send him even more headlong into self-destructive mode by revealing his addiction to blood and his inability to stop killing even though he’s trying to be “good”).
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unfortunately, any prolonged exposure to new-age type morons, as is wont to occur in la-la land, is going to give you at least the vocabulary, but not necessarily the syntax…i am just thinking about marti noxon talking about having all these books about demonology around, and joss whedon just telling her to forget all that, they are just making up demons as they go along to facilitate the story/make the allegory
work…
Good point. But I still think that they know the tenets well enough to use what they need and recognize what they can alter, and to what extent, and still retain some consistency. They may not be practicing Wiccans or anything, but I think they know their basics (not that any of the specifics — gods, demons, etc., have any basis in the religion, but just the vague concepts involved).
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may i snidely remind you how annoying groups of satanists can be? except that hey are usually discussing investments and summer homes ?
Precisely why I don’t hang out with groups of Satanists.
Or groups of anything for that matter. 
–Aleck
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