OT: World in shock

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  • #35766
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hijacked planes cause terror in US suicide strikes
    World Trade Center towers totally destroyed (AA flight 11 UA flight 175)
    Part of Pentagon collapsed (AA flight 77)
    Pittsburgh crash (UA flight 93) near Shanksville in corn field

    American Airlines flight 11 (767): 81 passengers, 11 crew – Boston to LA

    American Airlines flight 77 (737): 58 passengers, 6 crew – Dulles to LA

    United Airlines flight 93 (757): 38 passengers, 7 crew – Newark to SF

    United Airlines flight 175 (767): 56 passengers, 9 crew – Boston to LA

    [ 13-09-2001: Message edited by: Cat ]

    #42582
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Awful isn’t it.

    I have a cousin that works in the World Trade Centre. He’s not always there, but there are no lines to the Eastern Seaboard at the moment from the UK, so I can’t ring him of his family to see if they’re ok.

    I hope no-one else is worried about family and friends (though I guess there are quite a few of us )

    My sincerest condolences to peeps who are worried about, or have lost, dear ones in this terrible tragedy.

    #42583
    FX
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by SadGeezer:
    Awful isn’t it.

    I have a cousin that works in the World Trade Centre. He’s not always there, but there are no lines to the Eastern Seaboard at the moment from the UK, so I can’t ring him of his family to see if they’re ok.

    I hope no-one else is worried about family and friends (though I guess there are quite a few of us )

    My sincerest condolences to peeps who are worried about, or have lost, dear ones in this terrible tragedy.


    thank you cat for reminding us of the poor people on those airplanes, and how horrible their last moments were as they realized they
    were going to die;i have not been able to stop thinking and crying for them all day, and i am glad that others are sparing a thought for them, and their families…saddy, as you can imagine, i have spent the day trying to find friends as well…blackcloud got through to me earlier, and we cried for our city, and all those people who have died, and hope that they didn’t suffer…i am sorry i do not believe in god, but all those souls are crying out to me and all i can do is hope that they and their families can come to terms with this quickly, and send all my thoughts out to them and to you and to all of us…thank you all again, from the us

    #42584
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Everybody in US call 1 800 933 2566 to donate blood.

    There’s a shortage.

    #42585
    Anonymous
    Guest

    *is only sixteen and can’t do a damn thing to help*
    Anyone who has any loved ones who might have been killed or hurt, you have my sympathy…now if no one minds, I’m gonna go freak out…

    #42586
    Anonymous
    Guest

    think how normal this morning was. I’ll wear this to school, now what do i have to do today? Did I finish my english homework?
    Then you go to second period and hear that a plane crashed into the WTC. You think OMG what a horrible accident. Your teacher turns on the tv, just in time for you to see the second plane, and you realize – this was DELIBRATE! You get sick to your stomach and you watch the WTC burn and it just seems so surreal, you think what if I’m dreaming, wait a little to wake up- but you don’t. Then it just gets worse, the PENTAGON is crashed into. Then you see the footage of both world trade towers collapsing- hear that over 25,000 people are probably dead, you see the people who tried to jump out of the top stories. Then it comes to the shot of the statue of liberty in front of a nyc that’s covered in black smoke and pale dust, the shot you’ll remember forever. Is this AMERICA you think. You try desperately to get through the day, you try to act normal, to not throw up, then after lunch they say that they need to evacuate the school, not in so many words but saying everyone has to be out of the school within ten minutes isn’t far from it. So you go home and just shake and know nothing will ever be the same. Then you switch on the tube to see if there’s anything new and you see the footage of the bombing of Kabul, Afghanistan. Is that the USA, you wonder, is this the start of World War III. What the hell happened to the world in just a few hours? And no matter what you just can’t stop crying.

    #42587
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I’ve been watching the news and how people all over the country are helping, the attitude is inspiring. Most of us are thinking ‘bomb the *******s that did this’, but US peeps and especially New Yorkers are mobilised to help and do what they can.

    Personally, I’ve been worried about my cousin who worked in the World Tade Centre and his family (one of whome is comming over here for a visit in a few weeks). I’d been telephoning all day to try and get news without any luck.

    But like I said, peeps are finding ways to help other peeps and one such person, our very own FX managed to contact my cousin and find out that he and his family (thankfully) were not injured (dispite being in the next building when the first plane crashed).

    She’s just telephoned me with the news and while I’m elated as hell! I also feel bad for those who’s news wasn’t/isn’t quite so good.

    Thanks FX, {BIG HUG}

    #42588
    crusader
    Participant

    166 died at the Oklahoma bombing!
    266 died on the airplanes craching alover USA tonight!

    2400 died in Pear Harber!
    25000 where inside the second WTC building when it colapsed!
    That shows what a trategy it is!
    25000 are known to be dead! (In New York only)
    But they suspect that it al will goe up to over 60000 dead!
    200 firefighters where incide the second building wgen it colapsed and died!
    78 police men are missing!

    One more building has colapsed in WTC! And one more is about to colapse to!

    And if thie wasnt enouth, Afiganistan has started a civil missile war now that the world looks away and USA cant doe anything!

    The planes where Hijaked with the use of Paperknifes!
    Paperknifes! That is just crazy!

    I wonder way a plane crashed in Pittsburg! Maybe the pilot desided to crash the plane to stop the terorists from using it as a weapon! Maybe something went wrong and the pilot died! Maybe we will never know!

    Our hearts goes out to the peapol inside WTC buildings! And god bless the rescueforces who risked and lost there life trying to save the peapol!

    This could bekome worse than I first thought!
    I hate to say this but it might bekome a big war out of this! September 11 will be a day that the world never forgets!

    The day that the world changed!

    #42589
    Flamegrape
    Participant


    “NO MERCY!”
    –Delenn, upon the death of Dukhat after the unprovoked attack on the Grey Council, as seen in Babylon 5 episode 409, Atonement.

    #42590
    crusader
    Participant

    I was writing wile you posted, Brainplague!
    I understand exactly how you feal!
    I live in Sweden but I still feal the same way that you doe!

    I was sitting drinking tead and eating browies with my mom! Desided to goe up to my room to watch a comedie show on tv!
    Saw the words “WTC crashes”! Thinks: Must be the stocks that has chrashed! I look closer and se that 2 plane has crashed in the towers! And that one of the towers has colapsed!
    I se that Pentagon is on fire, checks it out and finds out that it was a plane crash that to! By that time I fealt really sick!
    Then I se the second building colapse! That made me run to the toilet! Neather my nerves or my stomic could take this!
    They continue to show the towers colapse! The peapol runing in panic! Peapol jumping out from the 100 floor!
    Still feal sick watshing it!

    Its in the middle of the night here but I still watsh! Has bein since I first saw it!

    I almoust feal sorry for the terorists when USA finds them!

    Im glad that your cusin is OK!
    IF I can sleep tonight I plan to goe to sleep praying!

    I to saw how the peapol of New York helped eatchouther! They who has reputasion to be selfish!
    No plundering!
    A slow and calm evaquasion of Manhattan!
    It showed how in trouble peapol can cometogether to help!

    Oh, to think! The twin towerd dont exist enymore! The worlds talest buildings! Gone!
    Things will never be the same again!

    #42591
    Anonymous
    Guest

    quote:


    Originally posted by brainplague:
    …….. What the hell happened to the world in just a few hours?


    Wow BrainP, I know how you feel! Well said.

    #42592
    FX
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by SadGeezer:

    Wow BrainP, I know how you feel! Well said.


    i agree with you both, i am still crying over new york, and i have intense hatred for the people that did this, but i do not want war

    #42593
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I don’t think this is a topic that should be up for discussion & would greatly appreciate it if no more was said about NY.

    #42594
    crusader
    Participant

    Way?

    This is something that has to be talked about!
    I fealt really sick last night! Throwing up!
    I still feal bad but it has bein bether knowing that there are peapol who feal the same way that I doe! I think that outher feal the same way!

    When something like this happends its good to express your fealings!
    Saying how this makes you feal!

    Showing how mutch we care!
    Saying that our hearts goe out to the peapol suffering!

    I hope that the descusion will continue to be open!

    #42595
    Anonymous
    Guest

    If this whole thing isn’t science fiction, what is?

    They say that there’s going to be 800 dead in the pentagon alone.

    Guiliani confirmed that there were thousands left in the towers when they collapsed.

    Guiliani himself only got out of the tower 10 minutes before the collapse.

    They dug out 6 fireman and 1 cop who was alive this morning.

    They say that a guy who was on the 87th floor rode the debris all the way down to ground level and only broke his leg, but they didn’t get to him in time and now they have to amputate the leg, but still he fell nearly 90 stories and SURVIVED!

    #42596
    Anonymous
    Guest

    This morning I burst into tears again upon hearing this story of desperate, tragic heroism. A man on the flight that crashed near Pittsburgh was on the phone with his wife. He told her goodbye. And he told her that he and 2 other passengers were going to storm the cockpit. That’s why that plane didn’t reach it’s target – whether it was heading for the White House or Camp David.
    My prayers for all who’s lives have been turned inside out by these tragedies.

    #42597
    Flamegrape
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by Aurora:
    …2 other passengers were going to storm the cockpit. That’s why that plane didn’t reach it’s target – whether it was heading for the White House or Camp David…


    Actually, my first guess would be the Washington Monument. (That is the tall obelisk in the middle of Washington D.C.) If I were a terrorist, that is what I would do. It is a greater symbol of power and strength than the White House.

    But then again, these terrorists barely understand Americans. I really don’t have any idea what they were thinking we would do in response. Did they think that we would pressure Isreal to leave the West Bank or something? Suddenly realize what a Great Satan we are, genuflect and prostrate ourselves towards Mecca, and convert instantly to Islam?

    This is not merely an everyday bombing. (And it does happen every day, thanks to fundamentalist maniacs!) We will not merely seek the extradition of a few terrorists and put them to trial in our courts a few years from now. Oh no, this is not what we will do.

    This is an act of war. Once it is determined who is responsible, I fully expect the President and Congress to declare war[/b] upon the nation that harbors these terrorists. (This is something that has not occured since December 1941.) Many people are almost certain that it is Osama bin Laden and the Taliban of Afgahnistan. All we need is confirmation and we will prosecute a war via land, sea, and air. We will not be stopped. We do not care if the Afgahn government claims no responsibility; it is too late for excuses.

    The United States has never fallen victim to such a horrendous act of cold-blooded murder of this magnitude. At Pearl Harbor, about 2500 servicemen (approximately) were killed. Yesterday, more than 10,000 innocent civilians were visciously murdered.

    A few of my friends have spoken of enlisting or re-enlisting in the U.S. Army. I might consider the same, but I may be more useful as a civilian creating agit-prop art or something like that. But if I am drafted, I will go.

    I’ve got some good agit-prop right here:


    NEVER FORGET

    As I write this, I wonder if this message will be deleted and judged tasteless. Maybe it is. But it is the truth. And it is the reflection of the feelings of most people in the United States.

    But above all else, I genuinely hope and pray that it does not come to a declaration of war. Maybe the scoundrels who were directly responsible for this madness will be brought to swift and proper justice.

    #42598
    crusader
    Participant

    That depends on the outcoming!

    This could be begining of peace or war!
    The hole world (exept for the damn palestiniers) is united to stick against AL terrorism! China, Russia even Cuba!
    Little Danmark! England, France!
    There is no question! There will be a war! Against terrorism! Maybe it will later be caled The Terrorist War!
    It depends if any nations desides to help Bin Laden or not!
    If they doe ond they cal in there allies this could be a war that the hole world is in on! A World War III!
    If it will become devestated or not depends!
    The countrys USA may be up against are crazy enouth to use nukes!
    That will deside the outcome of the war! What weapons are used!

    It will bekome war! Bush said that it was an act of war and that USA WILL declare war when they find real profe of who is behind it!

    As I said! If this will be the end depends on manny things!

    May god help us al!

    #42599
    Anonymous
    Guest

    quote:


    Originally posted by CBrate:
    I don’t think this is a topic that should be up for discussion & would greatly appreciate it if no more was said about NY.


    I’m sorry Cbrate, but this isn’t a discussion, it’s friends trying to reassure and comfort other friends.
    The people who have been affected will feel the need to talk, a channel if you will for them to release emotions and realise that they are not alone, and that others share their grief and sorrow…which we all do.
    If this upsets you, then I advise you to stay clear of the board for at least a few weeks.
    Squishy

    #42600
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Flamegrape is right, this action will inevitably lead to war.
    As my own Prime Minister put it, this action is not just an attack on the USA, it is an attack on the world.
    I would not like to see a war in my lifetime of the possible magnitude that we are faced with, but it’s either that or more atrocities will occur…some perhaps even worse than Tuesday’s.
    With this in mind, I have contacted my local army recruitment office for an infopack on enlisting, and the person answering told me it may take a few day’s, as it seems many able bodied men and women are looking into the possiblity of signing up.
    That may seem like a rash decision, but we are fighting for our own freedom to live our lives without the threat of maniacs destroying what we all hold dear.
    Crusader, I think your thought’s echo the general feeling around the world, the middle east has become a cancer, and although there are many who remain neutral, it is time to eradicate that cancer once and for all.
    And for someone who comes from Sweden (Sweden and Norway being the most peaceable countries in the world) really sums up the situation we find ourselves in, we are fighting a foe that shows no remorse or is willing to negotiate, we unfortunately are left with but one recourse…War
    Squishy

    #42601
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I hope Squishy and Flamegrape are wrong about there being a war, enough people have died.

    The Afghans are brutalized by their own government, I don’t want my country to join in or sink to the level of the f**kers who did this.

    I do want the surviving terrorists hunted down. Unfortunatly their executiojn would be swift and humane, far less than they deserve.
    I hope there is a hell for them.

    You wake up to your alarm clock radio, you hear that the WTC has been crashed into, but you think it might have been an accident. Then you hear about the second plane, and then you see it. You hope that most people got out, you try to go about your life. Then the Pentagon,the towers collapse, and the State Dept, and another plane has been hyjacked. But it dosen’t sink in till you’re at school, the flag is at half mast. And you start crying in front of total strangers.

    That’s the least of what many people went thru, so Squishy and Brainplauge might be right. U.S will be mighty ****ed off when the shock wears off. I hope we don’t take it out on innocent people.

    #42602
    Anonymous
    Guest

    My heart is in such pain. All the families that lost loved ones, I can not imagine their pain. I just found out my brother who travles all over the USA for his job was just 2hrs out side of NYC. He said he had nightmares last nite.
    I have two dogs that I walk before I go to work. I take a walkman (radio) with me to listen to some morning DJs joking around but they were not joking. When I got back to the house I had just enough time to see a video of the second plane go into the tower. I had to catch a buss and people were talking about it on the buss.
    Even though I live on the east coast and dont know anyone who lives in NYC, we are all americans and I cry for our country.
    I have the radio on and the talk show host was talking to a woman who had talked to her sister on a cellphone from the airplane that went down in Penn. She said that the highjackers didnt tell them what they were up to but to call families to say good-bye. The woman on the plane wanted her neice to know she loved her and then wanted to give the phone to others who didnt have a phone.
    I will never be able to cry enough tears.
    I want to add just one more thing,I got on this BB to have fun and poke fun at others. I’m sorry if I have said anything to anyone here that hurt them. I was trying to be cocky and flipent(?) I may not be back for awhile but wish the best for all who viste Sad Geezer. Love the site
    I am the Monkey

    #42603
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I don’t want to sound rude, but after all that’s happened, some good has arisen from these terrible events.
    For the first time that I can remember, the entire civilised world has been brought together in a massive show of unity and solidaity.
    Russia, Europe and even China are showing that for the best part, that there is still a lot of caring and togetherness among the human race.
    For a long time I thought that the divisions between nations had grown so great, that nothing could bring us all together for the good of the world…well this has.
    I am astounded at the outpouring of friendship shown from the places you least expect it.
    Yasser Arafat, leader of a country that by religious requirement has shown that he too is human, you could see that this man was visibly shaocked and appalled at these tragic events.
    Vladimir Putin, leader of America’s long time foe and now friend, being the first to call for an international response to the growing threat posed.
    The madness that has threatened every country is serving to close the divisions between bitter nations, the terrorists have unwittingly brought the world together.
    Even Pakistan, supporter of the country that protects the prime suspect in Afghanistan, has vowed to stand alongside the US and the world in it’s fight against terrorism.
    I think that the group responsible have alienated themselves in the eyes of other militant organisations in the middle east.
    They are becoming more and more isolated, and it’s only a matter of time before a god-fearing country will refuse to shelter these
    abominations of the human race.
    Of all the places that I go to on the net, this one is by far the best for it’s friendly and almost family like feel.
    There are of course messages pouring in from all over the world to offer their condolences and support to the United States and it’s people, for this I am proud to be a member of the human race again.
    Squishy

    #42604
    Anonymous
    Guest

    The really sad thing, if it does turn out to be Osama bin Laden, is that he got his initial military training during the Afghan war about 15 to 20 years ago, courtesy of the CIA. Back when Russia was still the Soviet Union, they invaded Afghanistan, ostensibly because of political instability that existed in a country that, at that time, was right next door to them. They occupied the country and propped up the left wing pseudo-communist government in Kabul. This made the US unhappy enough to give CIA sponsored financial and military support to a resistance movement dominated by a core group of Islamic fundamentalist fighters known as the Mujahadeen. Most of these were from the dominant Pashtu ethnic group in Afghanistan (who are not Arabs), but the religious nature of the struggle attracted volunteers from various Arab countries as well. One of these was bin Laden, heir to an engineering and constuction fortune in Saudi Arabia, who brought a lot of money and followers with him. After a long a brutal war, the Mujahadeen, with US weapons and training, as well as the use of bases and logistics in Pakistan, were able to drive the Russians out. Unfortunately, this only led to ten or more years of brutal internecine warfare from which the Taliban came out on top. This is a regime so fundamentalist, that even the Iranians had problems with them, and their treatment of women is probably worse than any other country in the world. So, to get rid of the left wing pro-Russian regime, we basically armed and trained the worlds arch terrorist and also created the conditions for the worst Islamic regime on the planet to come to power (and give him sanctuary). Not exactly an even trade.

    After the Afghan conflict, bin Laden turned against us because of grievences the Muslim world had with the US – the continuing bombing of and economic sanctions on Iraq ten years after the end of the Gulf war, the continuing presence of US troops in Saudi Arabia (site of the holiest Muslim cities of Mecca and Medina which are off limits to non Muslims), sactions on Libya, the favoratism shown by the US toward Israel (over 5 billion dollars in combined military and economic aid each year – far more than any other country), and the fact that US planes, tanks and weapons are now being used almost daily by Israel against Palestinian towns and villages in the occupied terretories. One irony though, is that while he was apparently bombing our embassies in Africa, he was ostensibly allied with us while we were bombing Serbia – there were reports that he had units on the ground fighting with the Kosovo Liberation Army to aid fellow Muslim Albanians against the Serbs during the Kosovo war.

    If he is behind the Trade Center bombing, I don’t see how Bush will be able to avoid decisive action, but I don’t relish the thought of it because we’ve tried to get him with cruise missles before and failed. In order to succeed, we might need to send ground troops into extremely hostile terrain, surrounded by Islamic countries generally unfriendly to us (except maybe Pakistan, but I wouldn’t count too much on them). I know the act is heinous enough that thoughts of revenge are completely justified, but I dont’t see how a reflexive military strike will fix the long term problem of our poor standing in the parts of the Muslim world that believe acts like this are justified because of our policies against them.

    #42605
    Christine Carroll
    Participant

    Hi Everyone…. I live in the US… I spent all of Tuesday at school watching the tradgic news of whats going on in my Country. It’s just horrible. All those lives gone. The US is never going to be the same. When I was watching the news so was half the other classrooms in my school… There was a riot… OVER HALF of the population of my school has friends and family either in the Military or working in the World Trade Center or the Pentagon. It really hit everyone hard, My Gov teacher was sitting in his chair watching the news and crying…. He had family working there… He spent the class trying to get people on his cell phone…. He couldn’t reach them….

    It’s really scary that this is happening up in New York and in DC, The area were I live is SURROUNDED by Military and Government centers, Norfolk is just 20 minutes away. Its supposed to be the biggest Military base in the world… So the whole area is worried about there families going off to fight or the fact that we may be targeted next. Its all just really scary and very unreal that so many people are dead. They say that they will NEVER find all the bodies… They say (sorry people) that many of them are COMPLETLY melted and theres nothing left of them do to the horrible heat of the fires…I mean they melted the steel of the twin towers. I think it would just be cleansing and maybe helpful to be able to have a body to mourn instead of an empty casket or a Meromial at the site.

    I’m just so sad from these events of the other day… I don’t understand how a person or people could COLDBLOODEDLY kill all those innocent people.

    #42606
    Anonymous
    Guest

    quote:


    Originally posted by Jason:
    This is a regime so fundamentalist, that even the Iranians had problems with them, and their treatment of women is probably worse than any other country in the world.


    And their treatment of ethnic minoriys, and their treatment of their own men citizens.

    Some people want to bomb them into the stone age. I know what that feels like, but they already live in the dark ages.

    We must destroy those who planned this evil thing, and those who harbor them. Butwe cannot allow ourselves to sink to thier level by being casual about the number of innocent people in the way.

    #42607
    Anonymous
    Guest

    quote:


    Originally posted by Christine Carroll:

    I’m just so sad from these events of the other day… I don’t understand how a person or people could COLDBLOODEDLY kill all those innocent people.


    I don’t think any decent person can.

    They made no demands. They made no threats.
    They didn’t say why they did this. They didn’t take responsibility, they didn’t try to start a formal war.

    They just killed thousands of people and gave no reason. They only wanted to kill as many US people as possible. My god, even Hitler gave a reason for the things he did.

    I hope there is a God, one as viscious as they think, but on the side of humanity. Nothing any assasain, any executioner could do to them would begin to match the pain they caused.

    #42608
    Flamegrape
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by Flamegrape:
    This is an act of war. Once it is determined who is responsible, I fully expect the President and Congress to declare war[/b] upon the nation that harbors these terrorists. (This is something that has not occured since December 1941.)


    I was correct. Congress is going to declare war.

    #42609
    crusader
    Participant

    Yes! They have said that if Afiganistan dont give them Bin Laden they will attack!
    Pakistan just said that they are sure that Bin Laden was behind it and will help catch him!
    Al Nato countys, China, Russia and even Cuba will help USA in the struggle!
    Afiganistan say that they have put Bin Laden in housearest and will give him to USA if they give them proofe!
    USA anserd:Give him to us or we will attack!

    As how it looks now, Afiganistan are werry delecate and will doe anything to stop a conflict with USA! If there would be war then it would mean the end of the peapol who are the leaders of the country just now!

    If Afigasnistan dont give USA Bin Laden, there will be war! And America, NATO, Europe, China, Cuba, Russia will be involved! And if outher musslim countrys stay by Afiganistan the war will be bigger and goe from a Terrorist war to a World War III!

    As of now al 18 terrorists who where in the plane has bein identified and atleast 4 where Bin Ladens men!
    They are looking for the 50 who worked with them!

    What makes me sad is that Bin Laden still is considerd a hero!
    Well, I se him as on idiote! He just destroyed everything for the musslims who he said that he wanted to save!
    Musslims are being attacked and there homes and the placeses where they pray are bing set on fire! Al over the world! In USA! Here in Sweden!
    He just damned the Musslims to the same hate as acured in World War II!
    He just destroyed the hope for peace on earth and pushed us twords a dark time!
    But he can alsoe have pushed us twords peace and a bether place! That depends on the outcome of this!
    Hell or Peace! It al depends on what desision is made! We dont know witch desision will be the right one or wrong one!
    Not untill its tolate to change our minds!

    May god help us al!

    #42610
    FX
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by crusader:
    We dont know witch desision will be the right one or wrong one!
    Not untill its tolate to change our minds!

    May god help us al!


    exactly right, crusader, once we are knee deep in this, it will be too late to change our minds, and we may never know what was the right thing to do…let us hope not only that there is a higher power, but that that power will finally show us clearly what is the right path to follow….fx

    #42611
    Anonymous
    Guest

    quote:


    Originally posted by FX:

    exactly right, crusader, once we are knee deep in this, it will be too late to change our minds, and we may never know what was the right thing to do…let us hope not only that there is a higher power, but that that power will finally show us clearly what is the right path to follow….fx


    I think, to be honest, we all feared this day would happen, not only because of the loss of life, but also because of actions that will now be taken that are beyond our control.
    The polls are showing a huge swing towards retaliation, but polls do not tell the full story.
    I think it’s safe to say that we all want the terrorists to pay, but we all have reservations on how this will be acheived.
    Many say, it will be foolhardy to pursue a minority that would be difficult to isolate, and they are correct.
    But, this was going to happen sooner or later, and the countries of the world have been living on borrowed time, so now only two choices remain…sit tight and do nothing like Bill Clinton did, and hope that no more attacks will occur, or go after the people responsible.
    I think you would have to be very naive to believe that doing nothing will mean that another would not happen, and while we sit and do nothing, we all live in fear of the next attack.
    The US has it’s back against the wall in terms of not doing anything, as there is always the danger of losing the faith and trust the world has shown after this tradegy.
    Many questioned why we did not finish Saddam off, and as a result, many of the supporters of NATO and the US began to drift away from their support.
    Also, the middle east’s feeling towards America will not change.
    Fact is, is that their leaders have exploited a weak people who feel that they do not have much to live for, and their only passion and interest in life is religion…simply because they don’t have anything else.
    These people are deprived of modern luxuries, and are jealous of the USA, being that compared to them the American people live like kings, while they remain poor.
    In some fashion, it reminds of a state of affairs in this country, the majority hate Manchester United football team because of their success and wealth, and the hatred is formed from jealousy.
    Obviously, the middle east goes to a higher scale, they call us infidels, because they believe they are a more worthy people than any other in the world, and that it is not right that we live the way we do, they feel that they deserve the spoils as they think they are better, kind of like the Germans and the Aryan race.
    They also believe that their religion should be the dominant religion, and that no other should be allowed to be practised.
    For instance, they will lock up anyone practising christianity in their country’s, while we do not deprive worshippers of Islam their right to practise their religion.
    Essentially, we are dealing with the same threat that Germany posed to the world with it’s ideals, the Arab religions feel that God has made them the chosen, and that they will always have God protecting them.
    So now, we have many different versions of Hitler spread throughout the middle east, all sending the same message, that they are God’s children and deserve to have what they want by design.
    This is my view of the situation, and I know many Americans don’t understand why they do it.
    They will always dodge the issue when faced with reality, the reality is know they will be confronted by the world, and so will back down, but the opinion of them being the true race, will remain.
    After many year’s of oppression, I am not surprised they feel this way, they think they have survived due to the mercy of God, and this has deluded them into believing that God has in fact protected them.
    Their own religion has given them a false dawn, one that can never be realised, but it is too late for them too accept otherwise.
    The seeds have been sown in their minds, and now that seed is beyond being removed, as it has become who they are, and feel that this is what they need to do.
    Remember, that those hijackers believed that God had reserved a special place for them in his kingdom, and no one would be able to tell them different.
    So we are faced with what has become a cult, brainwashed into believing they are more than they are for many, many years.
    If you look back, that cult could have started with Iran, and has filtered to other regions, only affecting Arabs, as the person who started it aimed his ideals at the Arab nation, hence why Saddam was happy to kill kurds, as he believed that did not fit in to the Arabic Gods’ plan, and were not worthy of being allowed to live.
    Like I said, we all at some stage feel jealousy, and at one point it existed in the UK, there was a huge dislike of America.
    However, the governments in countries that are civilised played down this jealousy until it was eradicated, unfortunately, the opposite has happened in the middle east, their leaders have played on this basic human emotion, and now the Arab people are puppets to be used by dictators and terrorists.
    Squishy

    #42612
    Anonymous
    Guest

    The attacks on the WTC and Pentagon have left us shocked, grieving, and mad as hell.
    At least 4,756 people are dead. They did nothing to deserve this. There was no warning to it, no sense to it. The terrorists wanted to kill as many Americans as they could, nothing else, they wanted nothing else.
    The heart cries out, I want revenge!.

    But revenge on who?

    We must not be callous. We must not be self rightous, blindly convinced of our virtue in this war. We’ve seen what callousness causes when AA 11 and UA 175 crashed into the Twin Towers. We saw what callousness and self-rightousness causes when we watched in horror as people jumped to their deaths to escape the flames.

    These terrorists have focused on terrorizing us after years of terrorizing their own countrymen. The ordinary Afghan is as much a victim as we are. Victims should show solidarity. They are our allies.

    These attacks were not just against the Twin Towers, or the Pentagon, or even America. They were against a hope, a dream. A idea of democracy as against an idea of perverted theology, of perverted Islam.

    If we attack innocent Afghani’s, our idea will lose. The terrorists will win this war if we allow ourselves to be like them.

    #42613
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Ok I havnt had time to read this but I know the sort of stuff that has been said, most people proably want to nuke the lot of them. Try and realise that doing that makes you just as bad as them, what we need at this time is more peace instead of more war.

    #42614
    crusader
    Participant

    Try telling them that! If this where world war II would you have said the same thing?

    The Arabs have said that they want to wipe out al christians! Afghanistan plans to declare war on al nerby countrys! Bin Laden is considerd a hero for them!

    A war is going on al over the world! Musslims against christians and vise versa!
    Here in sweden to! The musslims are celebrating the terror attack!
    Al points to Usama Bin Laden! It could have bein Sadam but USA should have heard something! But you never know! The terrorists who suisided in the planes had bein students in USA for years! This thing was planed for a long wile! Who knows what outherplaces have bein infriltrated! There can be spys and terrorists anywhere!
    Al hell are going to brake loose!

    NEWS!!!

    Pakistan has said that they will goe in to Afghanistan and try to get them to give up Usama Bin Laden!
    USA have given Afghanistan an ultimatum!
    They are to give USA Usama Bin Laden in 3 days or they will attack!
    Afghanistan has said that they will declare war on every sorunding country and countrys that is on USAs side and that they will kill every christian in the arabworld!
    Bush has said now that this might be the most devestated war ïn 100 years! But that they will win in the end!
    The worst thing is that the Musslims wont hassitate to send chemical warfare!

    My sister went in to an Pizzeria here in Sweden! The night when the terrorist attacks happend! She where going to get a Pizza! The Musslims who had the Pizzeria where celebrating what had happend in USA!
    A smal war (More loike a gang war) is braking out here in Sweden! I know that this is happening al over the world!

    Im sad to say this but in 3 days, 3 short days can World War III be here!

    I have said this before but Ill say it again:
    God help us!!!

    #42615
    Anonymous
    Guest

    The Christians started it. What do you reckon the Crusades were about?

    #42617
    crusader
    Participant

    The musslims had crusades to, you know!
    Muhamed himself lead them! His god had told him that it was OK to kill non Musslims so he whent on a crusade and plunderd amnny towns! And the thing is that manny of the town he plunderd where Musslim town!
    I have made a school end paper about it, so I know!
    The Jews alsoe had crusades! Dont forget that THEY hounted the cristians and killed them! That is way the cristians hated the Jews!
    Beside, al this happend a LONG time agoe!
    We dont goe around hatting Germans anymore! (We dont like them but we dont hate them)
    Afghanistan has said that AL christians who still are in Afghanistan when the war satarts will be killed!
    The peapol are screeming in the streets: “We will kill al christians! Crush thoes ****ing Americans!”

    USA have made some mistakes but you cant blaim them for wonting to strike back!
    If you look at it, there is NO country that has helped outher countrys in the world as mutch as America! How manny times have you sein outher countrys helping USA? The only things I have herd are complains!

    #42618
    Anonymous
    Guest

    quote:


    Originally posted by :
    The Christians started it. What do you reckon the Crusades were about?


    I sincerely hope you were joking when you said that, as it’s not about religion or race, the sad fact is, is that the majority of the terrorrists are muslim and use islam as a cover for their actions.
    This does not mean that all followers of Islam are in agreement with these maniacs, the majority are peaceful, and no one in the world is looking to harm them.
    This is not a holy war, some of the terrorist supporters will try to influence muslims into believing this to be so, but as far of the rest of the world is concerned, it’s about stopping innocent’s being slaughtered by cowards and religious zealots.
    If you believe otherwise, then I’m to say that you are very naive, I’m not christian, but I do know that no religion is looking to start WW3…and that includes Islam.
    What happened hundreds of years ago, has nothing to do with last weeks events, I’m not sure if the middle east believe that the very distant past play’s a part in the world today, if they do, then they are mistaken…big time.
    Muslims and any other religion has no bearing on recent events, this is about stopping terrorism…nothing more.
    Squish

    #42619
    Hollydays
    Participant

    Thank you squish for your level headed reply. I am a Christian and weep for all the things done in the name of God for the sake of political agenda. It is true that this is not a religious fight. It is a terrorist fight. Many of the Muslims and Islamics and Christians here have gathered together and weeped for the loss of life in this tragedy. Most religions are founded on peace and respect for others. Let’s be careful not to stereotype people by their race or religion so we don’t escalate problems in our own towns. How can we help out New Yorkers as well as our own communities.

    #42616
    FX
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by :
    The Christians started it. What do you reckon the Crusades were about?


    every major religion has things to answer for, except perhaps judaism until the founding of israel…but i suspect man’s cruelty to man predates written history, and makes such a discussion pretty useless and inflammatory…i read a very discouraging namecalling fest at scifi.com yesterday; i would rather not see that happen here…fx

    #42620
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Crusader, I thank you for your kind wishes towards my country but I would rather you directed them towards humanity as a whole.

    I don’t want to see anyone else die unless it is completly inevitable. We must keep our humanity and not succumb to blind hate! Then the terrorists would win. We must not become like them. I know that there was celebration in alot of places, I felt just as disgusted and angry as you probably do but please don’t think like the celebrators do and look at people as ‘ragheads’ as they do Americans as ‘infedels’ or whatever they call us. Those people didn’t or wouldn’t see the people in the Twin Towers and planes and Pentagon as humans, only as symbols. Please don’t repeat their mistake!

    [ 19-09-2001: Message edited by: Hypatia ]

    #42621
    FX
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by Hypatia:
    Crusader, I thank you for your kind wishes towards my country but I would rather you directed them towards humanity as a whole.

    I don’t want to see anyone else die unless it is completly inevitable. We must keep our humanity and not succumb to blind hate! [ 19-09-2001: Message edited by: Hypatia ]


    hypatia is right crusader, although i know how you feel…i frequently go overseas, including visits to the country of my birth, and it is very bitter indeed to see people bitching about americans even as they receive aid from the united states…but these people are misinformed,and twisted by their own lot in life, and we cannot simply react to their bigotry or we will be simply animals screaming at each other in the streets…please don’t feel that we are picking on you crusader; we are not, we love you and your concern for us, we just do not want to throw gasoline on the flames; it would make a mockery of all those needless deaths…love fx

    #42622
    Aeryn Crichton
    Participant

    Yeah, I think that I’m still in shock over everything. It kinda hits home for me because the FBI has named a student at a college about 20 minutes from mine as one of the terrorists. I don’t think that they’ve found him yet. He had dropped out of school the Friday before everything happened. Well, I’m proudly displaying a flag in my apartment window, ribbons on my car, and I’ve donated some money (I would have given blood if the drive hadn’t been cancelled here). Oh, and yeah, I’m back again (if you couldn’t tell). I’ve finally paid my internet bill.

    #42623
    FX
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by Aeryn Crichton:
    Oh, and yeah, I’m back again (if you couldn’t tell). I’ve finally paid my internet bill.


    welcome back sweetie, and well done!

    #42624
    Anonymous
    Guest

    And on that positive note (welcome back Aeryn), I think I’m going to close this topic.

    The comments that peeps have made have been pretty level headed I think and I’ve been encouraged by the clarity and feelings behind the posts.

    But alas, the number of posts has reached a level that makes me have to consider closing down. If you feel like continuing the debate, please feel free to start another ‘World in Shock’ topic.

    [ 24-09-2001: Message edited by: SadGeezer ]

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