Question for all Lord Of The Rings experts…
- This topic has 6 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 16 years, 9 months ago by Anonymous.
8th August 2004 at 8:36 pm #40110lexxrobotechParticipant
Why exactly does Frodo go away with the elves? Does he mean to return? What is the extent of his injury?
Im not interested in any university theory, or what one of J.R.R.’s children have written, but exactly what he has said in any of his books.9th August 2004 at 2:26 am #72599AnonymousGuest
edit: Here’s a good link for stuff
Re-Editing and cleaning this stuff up, got to be a long messy explaination 8)
Because all throughout Frodos adventures he was ‘touched’ by Saurons evil/shadow. He even took 2 major steps in LotR to becoming the Lord of the Rings himself (See “Taming of Smeagel”). The 4th Age cannot truly begin until the Ring-Bearers leave. That’s straight from Lotr, and as short as can be =) And no he can never come back. Gandalf explains in lotr that only Elves can build the ships, and none can ever come back to Middle Earth. For continuity sake Legolas stays behind and builds the final ship which takes Samwise, Legolas, Gimli, Aragorn, Pip, and Merry.
His sickness directly stemmed from the Witch-King stabbing him. A sliver of the blade stayed in his body and began to turn him into a Wraith. He was rescued by Glorfindel and cured by Elrond. But on the Anniversary (the first of which is the day Samwise had to carry him at Mount Doom) Frodo got VERY VERY ill, and just for a day.
This is why he leaves. **To cure his spiritual wounds before death.** The Undying Lands does not make mortals, immortal, period. And while there are only hints and clues of this, he never comes right out and says it other than in a letter to a friend. Even the story of Samwise leaving for the Undying Lands is ambigious, as JRR tells the story through another (Sams daughter or son, I forget)
Tolkien wrote so much on the Ages of Man, that Lotr really only makes up about 5% of the total content. Even the stuff Christopher released doesn’t really *add* or change the story as much as it expands on it. Sorta like the difference between the regular and extended version of the movies. He tells the same stories mostly, just expanded.
JRRs story about what happens AFTER the War of the Rings and the Fourth Age, explains a lot more about why people leave. In LotR the book, A LOT LOT LOT more is explained about the corruption of the Ring.
For example as I mentioned above, Frodo took 2 major steps to become Lord of the Rings himself. Gandalf talks a bit about this in Fellowship of the Ring.
The poem says: One Ring to Rule them all. One Ring to Find them. One Ring to bring them all, and in the Darkness Bind them.
Frodo uses the Ring to seek out things (only shown in the movies as a brief scene with Saurons Eye) Gandalf warns him about this and tells him it’s the first step to controlling the Ring. From that first step Frodo can seek out those who still wield the Rings of Power and Bind them to himself assuming he has the power.
Well he does…
In the Taming of Smeagel, he does not even need to put on or show the ring to Smeagel. Instead he tells him that he was once a Ring-Bearer and because of that he is now Gollums Master. Again something Jackson does not explain even though Gollum calls Frodo “Master” throughout the movies. There’s a ton of cool stuff involved here, and Samwise see’s Frodo as the Lord and Gollum as a dog licking his feet. A vision later that evolves into Frodo becoming a large man in a white robe, with a Wheel of Fire on his Chest. And Gollum a dark dirty shadow at his feet. This visions illustrate the corruption of Frodo so I thought I’d include them.
The two major things I’ve seen that people argue about because Tolkien never gave an answer to:
1) Who is Tom Bombadil?
2) Who were the Entwives?
Those 2 arguements have been going on now for nearly half a century. The rest has pretty much been answered through JRRs letters, many of which were not released by his kids, but through the Authors and families he was friends with like the “Inklings”.15th August 2004 at 3:29 am #72642FlamegrapeParticipant
I bet that Tom Bombadil is Eru, God Himself. Gandalf refered to him as Eldest yet he also stated that Treebeard was probably the oldest living thing in Middle-earth. I take that to mean something profound. Also, Tom was the only character in the story that was not tempted by the power of Ring in any way. If Gandalf, an “angel” that was sent to Middle-earth, is even affected by the Ring, this should indicated how unimaginably powerful Tom Bombadil was supposed to be.15th August 2004 at 7:07 am #72646lexxrobotechParticipant
My book, although really old, only has one appendix, and that’s about Aragorn.
Thank you lexxlurker, Im off to find a friend with all the appendices. It all makes sense now as to why I didn’t know where everyone was getting this information.15th August 2004 at 10:16 am #72647bambooshootParticipant
The Entwives were the female counterparts to Treebeard and the Ents. They loved gardens and orchards instead of the wild woods and moved further and further away from the wild woods to make their orchards and gardens, but during the earlier battles with Sauron’s minions they were driven away/destroyed (this is kinda ambiguous) and their gardens were destroyed as well. The area became known as the brown lands, where little grew. Treebeard actually sings a song about the Entwives in the book and asks Merry and Pippin to bring word if they ever heard where they went. Without the Entwives there are no Entings (baby Ents) and therefore the Ents are a dying breed.
Sorry for length! Does that explain everything?
Oh – and Merry and Pippin didn’t go to the undying lands. They went to Gondor to live out their lives. Aragorn stayed in Middle Earth as well. That was the whole point of Arwen staying with him – she gave up her chance. He decided to die when he felt the time was right (as his people could do) and she outlived him, eventually going to Lothlorien, which is now empty. She dies there. Legolas went cause he was an elf, Gimili was allowed to go as a friend of the elves, the only Dwarf EVER to go. Sam was allowed to go cause he was a ring bearer even for a short while. That ok?
Bambooshoot 😆17th August 2004 at 3:59 pm #72675AnonymousGuest
I give up =p I can’t even find the freaking stories on the internet anymore without hitting 150,000 fan fictions.
In any event, the final story of Samwise leaving for the Undying Lands (because he’s a ring bearer) tells of him dropping the Red Book off with his kid. Then heading over to the docks where Legolas and Gimli are waiting.
In the boat are 3 boxes. One contains Aragorn, the other 2 I always assumed were Pippin and Merry.
If you can find the story and link it, I’ll budge. Otherwise, that’s what I remember and I’m sticking to it =p
As for the Entwives, the mystery is *who they were*. The Elves seem embarrassed by the situation, and many claim the Entwives were in fact a special type of Elf.
Keeping in mind this is a story where Aragorn was first written as a Hobbit named Trotter with wooden feet, the continuity isn’t perfect even for a Fantasy.17th August 2004 at 4:46 pm #72676AnonymousGuest
As for Bombadil, personally I think he’s the Planet. Or Middle-Earth, whatever you like.
When continually asked about his name (which Goldberrys response is “He is.”) he finally responds and I’m paraphrasing:
Who are you? Alone, yourself, and nameless? I was here before the first raindrop, and the first acorn. I made roads long before the Big People. Before the Dark Lord came from Outside.
Being the first thing in existance, or the Planet itself. You’d have no name. You would have to wait until something was created capable of giving you a name. Therefore he truly has no name, and thus the cryptic responses.
Personally though, I love the Aule theory. Because Aule taught both Sauron and Sauramon their Ring-Making skills. This would explain why he has complete control over the Ring (even making the ring disapear) and not vice-versa.
Anyways here’s a great essay on it
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