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*Series 4 Spoliers*
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Here’s something that’s always bugged me about B5. What they did to Ivanova. I thought she should have been allowed to die. She was a military woman, a born fighter and I’d have liked her to go out in a blaze of glory rather than withering away with guilt for not loving the man who saved her. Her character withered away anyway (though I know that wasn’t the fault of the powers that be, there was that mix up over her contract).In a way, I think that in saving her, beardy English bloke (can’t remember his name which shows just how much I liked HIS character) completely destroyed her.
Anybody else think she should have died?
Cool, some B5 discussion! =)
Well there’s a few interesting things here Ive noticed.
Both captains, Sheridan and Sinclair (Lockley doesnt count) made arrangements to have Ivanova removed or saved in cases of extreme danger when they arose.
They both kind of cited the fact that she was the last in a very long family line, and since Sheridan was slightly responsible for the death of her brother he never wanted to be responsible for her death too.
So it seemed to be an ongoing JMS thing that Ivanova was the last of the Ivanovs, she made speechs about it etc..
I bet he had a pretty big background on her character.
But thats just my guess. If you ask me personally yeah they should’ve killed her, I really did not like how it ended (Lets pull out the 11th hour gadget!). But again I bet JMS had long term plans for her character (She becomes an admiral doesent she?) so he couldn’t kill her in order to preserve the overall storyline.
Again just a guess =)
erm you may want to post a spolier warning there. Not everyone’s seen season 4 (especially since it’s not even out on US DVD yet- a lot people I know didn’t catch the series the 1st time around).
Anyway…
there was that contract thing…
But as to should Ivonova should have died? Probably, but it should have been worked into the script from the start, and dying in a more meaningful way (or a less meaningful way to show the futility of war, or something along those lines). One thing that should not have happened is Marcus biting the bullet 😡 (but considering season 5 wouldn’t have any use for him, maybe it was for the best).
I do remember reading an article in SFX somewhere that she was meant to be the one to fall for Byron etc. Will see if I can dig it out over the weekend
I remember reading posts in the newsgroups from fans very upset that Ivanova was not going to appear in season 5.
Apparently it was all down to misstimings in terms of contracts ( and I think Claudia Christien was also playing silly buggers about the contract renewal). In the end they just decided to write her out of season 5. JMS didn’t seem to be too upset about it (rather philosphical I think) and CC wasn’t exactly throwing net vitriol around either.
So, I personally think that they just needed a way to get rid of her without burning any bridgers just in case her contract thingy was resolved before the end of the Fifth Season.
”fluffy wrote:erm you may want to post a spolier warning there. Not everyone’s seen season 4 …..I do remember reading an article in SFX somewhere that she was meant to be the one to fall for Byron etc. Will see if I can dig it out over the weekend
I do apologise, fluffy bunny. I’ve added spoiler alerts now.
Good Lord!! From Marcus to Byron!! 😯
I’m afraid if I were Ivanova, I’d commit Hara-Kiri!I’m afraid if I were Ivanova, I’d commit Hara-Kiri!
Or run off with Bester. Now that would have been a storyline to remember 😛
On an aside;
One of the things I liked about season 2 was that it managed to do what many other shows managed to do- kill off/get rid of the whiney characters that you got sick of- Talia, Warren, even Sinclair to a lesser extent, paving the way for an excellent S3. Season 4 however by the end did the opposite Ivonova, Marcus, Morden 😯 Guess I’m lucky he didn’t kill off G’Kar and Londo”fluffy wrote:On an aside;
One of the things I liked about season 2 was that it managed to do what many other shows managed to do- kill off/get rid of the whiney characters that you got sick of- Talia, Warren, even Sinclair to a lesser extent, paving the way for an excellent S3. Season 4 however by the end did the opposite Ivonova, Marcus, Morden 😯 Guess I’m lucky he didn’t kill off G’Kar and LondoI think we have nearly opposite tastes in characters. 😆
I was very fond of Talia (though I’ve ranted before about how I hate it when a strong female character like Ivanova suddenly turns lesbian. Simply because that sort of thing never happens to strong male characters like Sheridan or Garibaldi) and I thought that the destruction of her personality to be replaced with Queen b*tch was a master stroke.
I was also very fond of Sinclair but think that what happened to his character was also a master stroke.
Warren I was quite glad to see go. In fact, every week when I saw his picture in the credits, I had to ask Dr When which character he was. Dr When always shrugged and said ‘some actor with a good agent.’
I couldn’t stand Marcus. Male English characters who constantly spout Shakespeare and get all lovesick make me want to spew. (Not that I have anything against Shakespeare).
Morden I adored but I think he died in the right way at the right time.
*Nursewhen waves at Morden* 😛
I was very fond of Talia
Ah rebirth ceremony
Anyway, who said Ivonova turned lesbian- it could just have been interpreted as sisterly love, which is pretty much how the interaction was played.I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. For my brother and myself, most of the Talia orientated episodes were the boring ones (there were a few Jewels, but still…)
It would have been good if dark talia had come back and added to the plot in seasons 3 & 4 (you could argue about the Jerry Doyle thing, but I still feel that the plot could have benefitted significantly). The ‘masterstroke’ just wasn’t capitalised on IMHO. She could have become as evil as Bester, but whereas Bester had the charisma, Talia could have had the pured hatred and would have contrasted strongly with the naive (sp?) well mannered Talia from the earlier seasons.
As for warren, according to the commentary, the only reason that JMS had him in was that the WB execs wanted a hotshot elite pilot character (fortunately he got minimum screen time). Then they released their hold in S2, and the show went from strength to strength.
Agree about Morden and Sinclair going at the right time.
I’ll admit it. I had a bit of a crush on Claudia Christian back in my youth and liked her in whatever terrible movie she was in. I was a big fan of her as Ivanova, so I was disappointed when she got the Babylon boot. Around the advent of season five, her side of the story was posted on her website. I’ll have to paraphrase from memory, so I apologize if the facts don’t fall out correctly.
My understanding of the Ivanova snafu is that Claudia wanted to renew her contract but with the stipulation that she had some schedule flexibility so she could work on other projects.
Well, flexibility she got. It would seem JMS doesn’t like such demands, and Claudia’s contract was not renewed. The bitter bit is that she heard about this from renewed co-star Jeff Conaway. What a burn!
So sadly the strategy for Ivanova in season five was a matter of plot hole plugging, I guess.
Frostgeezer
”fluffy wrote:Anyway, who said Ivonova turned lesbian- it could just have been interpreted as sisterly love, which is pretty much how the interaction was played.
Yes, it could very well have been, but it was nevertheless ambiguous and open to interpretation. Sheridan or Garibaldi would never have been put in such a situation where people were unsure of their sexuality.
It would have been good if dark talia had come back and added to the plot in seasons 3 & 4 (you could argue about the Jerry Doyle thing, but I still feel that the plot could have benefitted significantly). The ‘masterstroke’ just wasn’t capitalised on IMHO.
Yes, I agree totally, she would have out Bestered Bester, he at least had a few human qualities and failings. Evil Talia would have had no failings or compunction at all. Mind you, maybe that’s why she couldn’t be brought back. It’s human failings that make characters interesting. Robocop would have been the most boring film on the planet if he hadn’t have had flash backs to his previous life.
As for warren, according to the commentary, the only reason that JMS had him in was that the WB execs wanted a hotshot elite pilot character (fortunately he got minimum screen time). Then they released their hold in S2, and the show went from strength to strength.
Ah, thanks for that, I wondered why somebody with star billing was so underutilised. I found him an unecessary character.
It would have been hard to kill off Ivanova during season 4 as she had some arc-play left in her (and while Lyta picked up the Byron arc, I cannot imagine Lyta playing Ivanova’s role in Sleeping in Light!). JMS clearly had the “battered old warhorse” fate in store for her for some time. I agree that the “Marcus sacrifice” bit was overplayed (because surely they could have had many volunteers willing to each give up a bit of lifespan for her and so avoid the “all or nothing” nature of the sacrifice) but Joe indulged in a bit of deus ex machina on purpose in that arc, I thinkl.
Imagine the possibilities for the fifth season if CC had stayed on, and played out the role of Byron’s lover. Sheridan and Garibaldi are now caught in a situation where they cannot even trust the station commander’s judgement when it comes to the telepaths! There could have been some excellent dramas played out along those lines!
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