THE BLACK HEART BOOK script wins BRONZE AWARD!

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  • #40234
    mysteriesofthesea
    Participant

    Did you ever wonder what it would be like to “dance with the Devil”…on the top of a mountain at midnight..amidst flashes of lightening and the roar of thunder..but there is no storm…and the moon is full?

    Could you sell your soul to Satan in exchange for “special powers”…and live with the consequences…even if you wanted to try to back out of your deal?? 😕 😯

    This is a true story. 😯 I saw the mountain in Kentucky where this whole tale starts. In a “holler,”..I visited the cabin of Mary Turner, the daughter of the man that this story is about. I met Mary through an introduction by her grandneice, Rosezelle. Mary,.who took a “shine to me after we swapped “Amish tall tales,” and “Kentucky tall tales,” and…she…served me “grits, home-made sour dough biscuits and fried eggs for breakfast.”
    …When I came to interview her for this book, Mary said I was “real good at “storifying” and could swape yarns with the best!!”

    (I was invited to spend the night in the cabin with her,..but there were too many “cold spots,’….”haints,”..in that dang cabin!! She was comfortable with them,..but I wasn’t!! I guess it was because I was not a member of their family!!) 😈

    This THE BLACK HEART BOOK, however,..is not a “yarn” but a true story, and the further that I got into “content proofing” it and playing my part in putting the story together…the more spooked I became!!!! The lady,.who tells the story,..is the grand-daughter of the man,.who danced with the Devil!! I’m glad t’aint me and I am just a bystander and accumulater of facts!!

    For an exciting read,..try THE BLACK HEART BOOK by Rosezelle Boggs Qualls. I didn’t write the book,..but I wish that I had!!

    (And no,..I don’t get any profit from it!!)

    I can recommend it as a good read!!

    http://www.densmorereid.com

    (And if you also happen to see a book, entitled WALKING FREE: THE NELLIE ZIMMERMAN STORY at the website,..I certainly won’t object if you stop and look at that book….too!!) 😯 😆 😉

    ……..Stanelle

    #73199
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Checked the site out – very cool, thanks for the info 🙂

    #73201
    Sidhecafe
    Participant

    Yes very interesting….

    And yeah for small presses!!!

    mysteriesofthesea wrote:

    Could you sell your soul to Satan in exchange for “special powers”…and live with the consequences…even if you wanted to try to back out of your deal??

    This is a very probing question….or you could ask if you could acheieve your heart’s desire at a price, what sort of price would you be willing to pay?

    Sorry couldn’t resist a little “devil’s advocacy” 🙄 – Bad pun…. 😳

    #73202
    mysteriesofthesea
    Participant

    finding the right people to believe and to believe in,….can be a great price,..indeed,

    …..Believe me,..I know!

    OH,…I know!! 😕 😳 🙄 😀

    …..Stanelle

    #73203
    Sidhecafe
    Participant

    Or how about giving up everything you think you know to see something different but better?

    Losing what you think of yourself in the process…….

    Existence is a tricky place.

    #73204
    mysteriesofthesea
    Participant

    good thing,..experience!! 🙂

    (As long as you throw in some chinese food!)..

    Ooops!! Have to go!!

    Will finish this discussion later!!

    ………Stanelle

    #73206
    Sidhecafe
    Participant

    the Devil and I will be waiting…..

    #73221
    mysteriesofthesea
    Participant

    “Heh! At least I know where you are coming from!!” (n/t)

    quoth Stanelle

    #73223
    Sidhecafe
    Participant

    Nietzsche : “And the hottest South has not yet been discovered for mankind.”

    nothing was ever good enough for Nietzsche!! 🙂

    But really, to get back to what we were metaphorically talking about, the price we pay for our heart’s desire – which ultimately is some sort of experience….

    The price we pay for experience…..Time….if you could use that as currency…

    #73229
    mysteriesofthesea
    Participant

    Bad currancy?

    But do we want..good experiences or bad experiences,..individual preference,…myself,..I prefer good experiences….not just for myself,..but for everyone,….

    …but I realize that the world does not work that way.

    And then,.there are experiences..that are right for the moment,..give us satisfaction but have no long term good or bad payoff…i..e…..

    (Here is a highly UNLIKELY example)

    1. I ask you to write a book or story with me…and instead of answering me with a simple yes or no,..you cuss me out and tell me that things that I have written don’t exist or that I am incapable of writing a complete thought or some such nonsense. You harass me online.

    Payoff?

    I ignore you and keep on getting books and articles…..published.

    You have the satisfaction of making my life miserable for maybe a few moments “in time,”

    and I just keep right on going.

    2. I ask another person to write a book or story or article with me and they do so. And they do a damn good job of it.

    Possible payoff:

    They might win an award or two from a major American university in their field for helping me to write.

    3….(even wilder speculation…going on here)

    ……another sort of writer comes along,..likes the story that we both have co-written and makes a script of it and we become one of a working group of writers,..who wins first or second place in a major American film festival….

    (This is getting wilder by the moment I know..but bear with me!! I am known for making up wild fairy tales and for co-writing odd little stories with dis-ABLED folks.)

    The final payoff is that you now have a film script on the market,..which may or may not be picked up by a production company and made into a TV film or movie!!)

    Yeah! Yeah!! I know my story is getting rather unbelievable but bear with me. I have been told that things like this can happen.
    What do you…think?

    Then of course there is the example of the person, whose life has been so saturated with different experiences both good and bad that they really are not sure that they want that many “new” experiences.

    What is a new experience in your opinion anyway? Also,…I would like to know how realistic you think my “speculation”..is.

    Do you think that it would make the basis for a good manuscript?

    Does it sound…..realistic?

    I await your reply,..Sidhecafe!!

    #73231
    Sidhecafe
    Participant

    (Here is a highly UNLIKELY example)

    thus wrote mysteriesofthesea

    I don’t think any of that is unlikely, I believe that anything is possible and sure why not good/bad feedback to any idea….

    And good things don’t happen usually unless someone is willing to work at their goals or take risks.

    also:

    But do we want..good experiences or bad experiences,..individual preference,…myself,..I prefer good experiences….not just for myself,..but for everyone,….

    Good and bad experiences both because they both have value to each person’s growth as an individual….I think the times I really know myself best is when I am reacting- being conscious of myself reacting to good and bad experiences.

    Someone told me that to think of responsabliity as really “the Ablilty to Respond” to all life experiences.

    Though we do all pay for experience with Time, it is the best currency we have because ultimately we decide how to spend it. 😉

    and also:

    What is a new experience in your opinion anyway? Also,…I would like to know how realistic you think my “speculation”..is.

    Do you think that it would make the basis for a good manuscript?

    Does it sound…..realistic?

    I think “new” experiences take me out of my usual everyday perceptions of my reality. Something that jolts me awake, opens my eyes wider, stops me with a new thought, challenges what I perceive as “truth”, or even quietly making me smile at the world, making me remember things I need not forget.

    I think that’s great subject matter for a manuscript, and speculation is the creative mind at work, laying ground work for new ideas and projects!

    It’s interesting you’d mention it, I had been thinking recently about some of my favorite scifi shows and how much fun it must be to collaborate with others on characters and story lines. Bouncing ideas abck and forth. It seems like it’s very challenging rewarding work!

    #73232
    mysteriesofthesea
    Participant

    It actually happened.

    And I agree with you about “life being made up of good and bad experiences.” Life IS made up of good and bad experiences and it is all a part of “real life!”

    Most important are our perceptions of those experiences. How folks percieve those experieces,..both online and off-line,……I do believe..is what influences our decisions as to how we react to “real life.”

    I don’t believe that one should let another person or persons..dictate to them as to what one can see for one’s self as a reality,..and “Life is more than what you see!”…(copyrighted statement Oct. 2001!)

    What are some of the other factors..do you think, which can distort one’s perception of real life and take you…”Beyond the Doors…(of reality)?”…if you get my allusion…

    No! No!! Not “illusion!!

    (Joke,..I couldn’t resist!!)?

    ………..Stanelle

    #73233
    Sidhecafe
    Participant

    What are some of the other factors..do you think, which can distort one’s perception of real life and take you…”Beyond the Doors…(of reality)?”…if you get my allusion…

    No! No!! Not “illusion!!

    😆 😆

    gotta go, more latter!!!

    #73234
    Sidhecafe
    Participant

    Perception changers….some of the more bigger ones: brushes with death & birth are good times to step back and reflect on what is important and not important in my life.

    A couple of years ago my sister’s birthday present was a skydive.
    So there I was just turned 29 years old, in a plane that I was about to jump out of…looking outside on the landscape of northern Massachussets spread out to all horizons.
    My instructor asked me if I didn’t think the view was beautiful.

    My imediate answer: “Yeah but I can’t wait to see it from the outside.”

    I had no fear of jumping from that plane. Which I’m still amazed at, when I was younger I was afraid of heights. But something changed in me. Really changed, and I have a good idea why but at that moment in that plane I remember one pause as we just reached 1300 ft. “I’m going to jump out of this plane? Yes! Of course I am!”

    That was better than any drug. The exhiliration and abandon of diving out into the air was so freeing.

    Definately a hard example of an experience that changed my perception of myself and reality.

    Altitude not attitude. Which could correspond to a lot of metaphors of reaching a higher state of being, raising oneself up from the mundane. Or just plain being silly – which can be a giddy, heady experience.

    Also I think that’s why mind altering drugs exist, many began as spiritual aids to cross the worlds of perception (talking the naturally occuring ones here). I’m done with my recreational drug use days but if a person is drawn to them – a judicial amount can defiantely impact perceptual experiences.
    However, they can/do harm terribly. A price that’s often paid for the experience.

    Fear is what keeps me in comfortable positions where my perception of “reality” and “truth” is not challenged. When I move passed fear it’s usually to find that there is nothing to be afraid of, but fear manifests itself not nessecarily as a boogeyman kind of feel but as apathy, laziness or just plane “Nah I don’t want to”

    The best way to be open to challenging experiences for me is to just be honest with myself.

    😆 😆 Hello tangent!

    #73243
    mysteriesofthesea
    Participant

    alcohol..though I joke about …”imbibing hard cider”…on another bboard other than this one. Because of a certain physical condition that I live with,..drugs or alcohol could kill me. I have faced this my entire life. There is no way that my perception of the world can be altered without taking this physical condition into consideration.

    Because of this,..my entire life has been spent in an effort of trying to deal with this condition as best as I can and trying to help others deal with their so-called dis-ABILITIES.

    (have to take my son to college,.will add more on later!)

    #73249
    Sidhecafe
    Participant

    Because of this,..my entire life has been spent in an effort of trying to deal with this condition as best as I can and trying to help others deal with their so-called dis-ABILITIES.

    mysteriesofthesea, I find that very courageous and accomplished of you to reach out and help others while facing your own life challenges. And this must have changed your perceptions and brought many new altering experiences into your life.

    You asked me what I thought types of experiences liek that could be and I pulled from my own life: skydiving, experimenting with drugs, being stopped in my tracks by thoughts and ideas that I read or encountered in other people.

    I’d love to hear some of your examples!

    #73269
    mysteriesofthesea
    Participant

    I guess recently..with so much time to sit and think,..that I finally have the time to actually think about my time and how..just how I have spent it!!

    Philosophy..deep philosophy..has never been a strong point of mine. I have just felt that everyone’s time has been well spent if they:

    (A) Have something that they enjoyed doing, and learned to do that activity well.

    (B) Love someone else and be loved in return.

    and

    (C) have a cause or an interest..outside of oneself..that one is willing to sacrifice and work for.

    (D) And you should…”Cultivez votre jardin,” (Cultivate your garden),….work, and try to make the most of what natural gifts that you might have, and build on them.
    Using this philosophy..some folks have made a…..”Hell of Heaven and of Heaven, a Hell”

    ……but that is beside the point

    ……..”Time as currancy!!”

    This is just speculation,..of course,…as to how I have spent the currancy of my time:

    Perhaps I watched a young man graduate from high school,..who had never been to grade school because he had been raised in a mental institution, and was not mentally retarded….just extemely hard of hearing and partially sighted,
    ….Maybe I helped him with my training as a teacher to learn to read,
    ….Helped buy him glasses and a hearing aide and then,
    ….Watched his natural intelligence take over and sat in a Canton,..Ohio high school gym, and watched him take his diploma in three years after attending school in that three years with other students,..who had been going to grade school and high school their entire lives.

    Perhaps,..just perhaps,…I took in a homeless woman,..who attended college at the age of seventy-one and attended for two years and then,..she dropped out college at the age of seventy-three and got her first job..at the group home that I helped start.

    Perhaps I watched her win awards for doing this and what made it all the more remarkable was the fact that right before I met her, she had been released from a state hospital where she had been locked up for nineteen years…not because SHE was crazy, but merely deaf and blind for her entire life.

    Perhaps,..I watched this deaf and blind woman vote in an American election for the first time in her life at age seventy four years and fall in love for the first time in her life at age seventy eight years.

    Perhaps I taught PSE sign language to the hearing so that they could communicate with their deaf children..for the first time in their lives. Perhaps, I watched a very heart rendering scene in one of my PSE sign language classes as a forty year old hearing man told his younger thirty year old born deaf sister that he loved her in American Sign Language..for the first time in his sister’s life. Then she turned around and asked him if he loved her so much, why it took them all of her childhood and most of their adult lives..to learn to say “I love you,..sis!”..in a few basic signs.

    Perhaps,..just perhaps,..I went into the homes of deaf children with hearing parents and taught the parents of those children American and PSE Sign Language so that fewer deaf kids would be labeled retarded.

    Perhaps,..just perhaps, I slogged through LPN nursing school after watching several kids die sadly in unexplainable circumstances without effective comunication and became a home nurse to severely dis-ABLED folks with traumatic brain injury and went through case after case watching these folks labeled as unteachable and yet after spending a few hours with them on a daily basis,..I found that they could learn…if I tell you anymore…..I’ll be giving my next book away!!

    (If I ever get it written!!)

    Perhaps,..just perhaps,..I have watched a blind disabled man write books and newspaper columns for so-called sighted able bodied folks on how to lead normal lives and make the most of what they have been given in their lives. I also sat and watched him study for and get his PhD. He is a good friend.

    Perhaps,..just perhaps,.I’ve met a deaf woman who started with nothing in life and her deaf husband, who have given me the fortitude to face anything that happens in my own life…because I have seen into their hearts and found that their hearts and minds were able to hear the call of the human spirit even as their ears could not hear the sound of my voice. Perhaps she listened to what I had to say…along with the blind man and helped get..WALKING FREE…written.

    Perhaps…just…perhaps, my best friend was a blind woman,..who had cerebral palsey and she graduated with honors from a local college many years ago and she taught me that to a person, who could not see,….facial disfigurement doesn’t matter……

    …….Damn!

    I have to go speak to a creative writing class this morning at nine thirty this morning and I think that I’m going to know what to say to them……….

    ………….without an interpreter.

    Tell me what you think of my speculation and you can tell me which French poets wrote these lines and what they mean philosophically,

    ……(I already know what they mean literally!),

    “Ou sont les neiges d’automne?” (Where are the snows of autumn?)

    and

    “Il pleure dans mon coeur comme il pleure sur la ville…?” (As the rain pours down on the city,..it rains in my heart….)

    ……Sidhecafe!!

    ………..Stanelle

    #73285
    mysteriesofthesea
    Participant

    One must always make sure that the currancy..is not counterfit! 😯 🙂

    This is the pub..so I guess that we can sit and smooze and discuss that which is past and hope for the future and not run amiss with anyone’s more sensitive feelings!!

    ……..Stanelle

    #73287
    Sidhecafe
    Participant

    “Ou sont les neiges d’automne?” (Where are the snows of autumn?)

    and

    “Il pleure dans mon coeur comme il pleure sur la ville…?” (As the rain pours down on the city,..tears pour from my eyes…)

    Thanks for the translations! I don’t know French well enough to have figured them out on my own!

    Now is that all speculation? Or your life? Seems to me it’s your experiences, like I said I think your life invariably must have challenged you and changed you in amazing ways.

    You’ve turned tarnished currency into gold and obviously still had to pay it.

    I really can’t speak to how you must approach your life, I can only speculate and try to understand and appreciate the strength of a person who tries to do what they think is right and good.

    And in striving to live as you believe is the best way – in helping yourself and other people you meet to not be over looked or disregarded – that is living authentically.

    Where are the snows of autumn?

    They live with us all the time. We know that the snow must come but it passes too. Autumn suggests winter suggests spring.

    I don’t know who wrote that, but I do believe winter is its own restraint – of introspection – a concentration inward to the dark places of ourselves and the dark we encounter in others. And we all must confront this in some way at some point.

    As Anais Nin said, “it’s our feelings in the face of experience, and not necessarily the experiences themselves that make us similar.”

    As the rain pours down on the city,..tears pour from my eyes

    Everything can be cleansed.

    I could definately think some more on both of these….

    yeah I like our little corner of the pub 🙂
    Thanks Stanelle!, this ongoing conversation is very stimulating![/quote]

    #73291
    mysteriesofthesea
    Participant

    a pointless parable or story.

    Ben Franklin wrote in 1783, “If you would not be forgotten as soon as you are dead and rotten, either write things worth reading, or do things worth the writing!”

    Cool little motto,..huh?

    It sounds to me that when you jumped out of that airplane,..you did something for yourself in your attitude about altitude and your own perception of yourself.

    Very cool,.indeed.

    In jumping out of the airplane with your parachute,..you did something that changed your philosophy and changed your perspective on life. Jumping out of that airplane gave you something in life that was worth talking about and writing about and most likely,..if you write about that jump..if your present mode of expression is any indication,..what you write about that jump will be well worth the reading!!

    Are you sure that you are not a “disciple” of Ben Franklin? (joke!)

    Sounds like you have good “DNA”..as in “Dynamic Natural Ability” as opposed to bad “DNA”…”Don’t Know Anything!”

    Yes,..the activities that I called “speculation”..were events from my own life. I rarely think of them as they lead to a “peak” moment in my life that almost ended a family member’s life. Telling you about them is in a sense..freeing up my own psyche so that I can write about them later on.

    I think that I lost someone,.who was willing at one time to help me put certain thoughts on paper,..because I could not come up with certain details fast enough..at least,..I think that was the reason. I really am not sure.

    Have to go but will continue discussion tomorrow. I was a guest speaker today in a writing class and those students had good… “DNA!”

    They wore me OUT!! 😀

    …………Stanelle

    #73295
    Sidhecafe
    Participant

    “If you would not be forgotten as soon as you are dead and rotten, either write things worth reading, or do things worth the writing!”

    YES!

    I’d pair that with, “Live so as your soul would fill your skin that you may shine with the light of it.”

    Jumping out of that plane was an exercise in trusting myself and the universe. The pinnacle of my excercise like that really. Before that I had left my finace and then moved from the area I’d lived for 10 years to move to Boston.
    Skydiving was a thrill but also like an affirmation – yes I can take risks and know that I’ll be alright, maybe even better than I was before.

    Telling you about them is in a sense..freeing up my own psyche so that I can write about them later on.

    I think that I lost someone,.who was willing at one time to help me put certain thoughts on paper,..because I could not come up with certain details fast enough..at least,..I think that was the reason. I really am not sure.

    I was in a writing workshop where I used to live for three years and the organization that offered it started their work offering workshops to low income women and at-risk children.
    Their philosophy – and one I hold in high esteem – is that EVERYONE HAS A STORY AND THEIR OWN VOICE WITH WHICH TO TELL IT

    Everyone has a incomprehensibliy valuable voice(that doesn’t mean just spoken!- but any kind of expression) with which to add to the human tapestry. Sounds like the person who was trying to help you write was trying to get you to write how they thought was correct as opposed to your natural voice….I find blurting out lots of confused ideas to a friend or on paper before I can go back and try and form it in to a more smoothly flowing something or other…..

    I supposed I should really go do some work now(at work now)….more later!

    #73298
    mysteriesofthesea
    Participant

    hard cider!!! 😆

    So you are a single person meeting others..online? Sounds like you want an adventure!!! 😛

    Are you trying to create the “experiences”…that will be the payoff for your deepest desires? Does time give us a means and a remedy for such? Who knows?

    What sci-fiction genre are you a fan of and how do you think that reflects what we have been smoozing about for the past two days? We both must be scifi buffs or we wouldn’t be hanging out in a place like saddy’s cafe!!

    ………Stanelle

    #73299
    Sidhecafe
    Participant

    Are you trying to create the “experiences”…that will be the payoff for your deepest desires? Does time give us a means and a remedy for such? Who knows?

    😆 😆 Deepest desires? That wasn’t want I had in mind! 😀

    Just new experiences yes, a new way to meet new people. An excuse for to get out with other people besides the friends I hang out with now.

    It’s a little weird but different. So what the hell, right?

    Just finding new ways to spend my currency! 😉

    What sci-fiction genre are you a fan of and how do you think that reflects what we have been smoozing about for the past two days? We both must be scifi buffs or we wouldn’t be hanging out in a place like saddy’s cafe!!

    I find myself interested in all different types of scifi…I particularly like space travel centered – ships and the science of it(Farscape, Andromeda, Stargate SG1,) – and also character driven(Star Wars)….anime scifi(Ghost in the Shell)…cyberpunk(William Gibson, Pat Cadigan, The Matrix- 1st movie)…..everything Philip K. Dick…(my man Phil!) and of course the scifi by Tanith Lee is indescribably beautiful and strange…

    I think scifi definately ties in with what we are talking about because of scifi’s ability to challenge perception of the present by proposing possible or alternate future/universes.

    Particularly the idea of “otherness” and how societies define culture.

    Whoa -at work here still, got’s to go….more later

    #73300
    mysteriesofthesea
    Participant

    but while being at home.

    I am trying to write an article,..but I was seduced by saddy’s archives for a while,

    ..amazed at what I found there,

    ..thankful I was not around when what I read there was going on,

    …and I’ll be..”reduced to a shivering mass of blubbering protoplasm,”..if I don’t get my notes finished and said article written as I have to speak to another Real Life group soon!

    Stuff stolen from someone else’s poetry but put together to reflect my mood:

    “Spins,

    ..Turns,

    …Swings!!

    As I learn the TRUE

    History of things!!

    And no matter what

    The past has wrought..

    Or how many friends found or bought..

    Regardless of your opinion,

    .. I do complete sentences in one thought!!

    Despite insults hurled and accusations made,

    ..What “Really is,”

    ..Is What has stayed!”

    ……….(Poem to be finished later!!

    The events which lead up to this poem..are so silly,..Sidhecafe,..that I would never attempt to relate them to you.

    Don’t ask!!)

    …….Stanelle

    #73304
    mysteriesofthesea
    Participant

    Are you or were you a fan of the cable TV scifi show,…Lexx?

    #73315
    mysteriesofthesea
    Participant

    …”telling my story,”…or…”writing in their voice,..not mine?”

    Loud, brash,..opinionated and unafraid….when I know for a fact that I am right about certain things….that is my “written voice.”

    In anyything that I write,…if I have truly written it,..my voice always remains the same….even during the time ..a few years ago..when someone had to type for me. (I went back to school about two years ago and learned to type again so this is me typing this now.)

    Example:

    A few years back,..a dying woman and I became fond of a CERTAIN TV show. We co-wrote stories together and posted them on the internet via the typing skills of others. She didn’t want anyone to even know that she liked that particular show…so I never mentioned her online or even brought her up in some of the e-mail letters that we got from the other people in the group.

    If you were to go back and read those stories,..you should be able to see two conflicting voices in them. Her voice is the voice of a woman,.who is dying and she knows it. My voice is the person, who has to stand and watch a friend undergoing horrific medical treatments, and I can’t do anything about it.

    After certain very unpleasant treatments, that she had to undergo,..the stories would go beyond being..what some of the other writers would accept or appreciate. My job was to change the story line enough so that it could be presented online,.but not so much that her voice would be lost in what we had to say.

    Still,..I think that the stories,..given the circumstances..were funny in their own way and had their own little audience. We co-wrote for about six months and then,..she stopped. She had the stress of dying at a young age,…I had the stress of watching her condition..not improve….

    If you were to read those stories today,..I think that you would be able to pick out the parts that I wrote and the parts that she wrote. We each had our own unique voice and we said what we had to say in our own particular way.

    As to the other person,.who chose not to continue helping me with the manuscript,…what I have to say would not have been lost if this other person had chosen to keep on writing with me nor would what she have had to say been lost. The only change in some of the writing arrangenments that I would have made which would differ from past arrangements is that my name would be also listed on the “ISBN” number!!
    Someone has said that I have a very distinctive stlye as to when I write on screen or paper. You can’t miss it.

    What say you,..Sidhecafe?

    #73316
    Sidhecafe
    Participant

    Love the poem!!!

    I would be happy if Absurdity was our ruling monarch and Silly the Prime Minister!!!

    Are you or were you a fan of the cable TV scifi show,…Lexx?

    I’ve only ever seen one episode of Lexx- ages ago, so I haven’t really had the opportunity to check it out. When it was on more regularly here – I didn’t even own a tv then.(I spent almost all of my 20’s without any access to cable or television at all) And in my area now it’s on at 2 or 3 in the morning.

    #73317
    Sidhecafe
    Participant

    Good morning, your last post got in there while I was writing that last one…..as for your latest…

    If you were to go back and read those stories,..you should be able to see two conflicting voices in them. Her voice is the voice of a woman,.who is dying and she knows it. My voice is the person, who has to stand and watch a friend undergoing horrific medical treatments, and I can’t do anything about it.

    I think it is incredibly valuable for those distinct voices to be distinguishable. Firstly to cloud those voices would be to betray the poignancy of the reality behind them – and both of your voices needed to be given expression through such a difficult and painful time.

    And there’s no reason why those voices can’t be authentic and express a cohesive narrative at the same time.

    only change in some of the writing arrangenments that I would have made which would differ from past arrangements is that my name would be also listed on the “ISBN” number!!

    Yes you should be given credit for the work you do!!!!!!

    A couple of co-written books come to mind while thinking on this:

    The Crown of Columbus by Michael Dorris & Lousie Erdrich

    The Talisman by Stephen King & Peter Straub

    And in both of those I could tell when the voice changed here and there but it did not distract from the story…..

    #73321
    mysteriesofthesea
    Participant

    but the blended voices are what create the most “harmonious”..sounds,..if my memory serves me right. A choir is created by the blending and co-operation of many voices to the common need for creating a beautiful sound to be enjoyed by all.

    A solo is only one person. While it is nice to be an acclaimed soloist,..it is much better,.I do believe,..to have others around you with a common goal and interest to share in the happiness of creating a thing of beauty..Do you belive in creating your perception of beauty for the pleasure of “creating beauty?”

    Didn’t Keats say,..”Beauty is truth…Truth is Beauty..That is all ye know on earth and all you need to know?” And didn’t he use that as the basis for writing his poetry?

    (Correct me if I am wrong as i am writing this on the “spur-of-the-moment!!)…changing the subject a bit…I pm’ed someone this morning on the idea that “writing for its’ own sake as a source of pleasure for the writer”..is as important as writing for dollars or for the pleasure of others.

    I do believe that we are all put here on this earth to contribute something and we will have reached our full potential as human beings if we find that something that we can contribute for the edification of others..no matter how great or small the number of folks,.who benefit from our conribution. This also includes an audience of “one,”..ourselves. This includes an audience of maybe two or three or four,.our families. This includes an audience of our friends and aquaintences.

    Ultimately,..it may include an audience of everyone else in the world,..but that is not a neccessary thing in one’s life…i..e..I have been told that i am fairly good at a type of cartooning and line drawings, but I have never let my drawings see the light of day except for one person because I drew for that one person and that one person alone!!

    I have only given any of my pieces of art work to two other people and neither one of those pieces were that very good. They were not original pieces and were copies of other folks paintings. By the time I was ready to share my drawings with one of those peope,..she chose to go out of my life. Still, the people that I have shown my drawings to..seem surprised that I could produce such things. My audience of myself for me is enough to share my artwork!!

    I do believe that we were put on this earth to share our “Time as Currancy” with others in ways that will benefit ourselves and others and not in a selfish “one man band”…or show. This might sound like it does not include the “writing to please oneself” idea,..but it actually does. In writing to please one’s self,..one has produced something. Any normal human being will seek out others or leave traces of their work for others to seek out..(i..e..Emily Dickenson and Emily Bronte!)

    I have also found that “brain-storming” with others and co-writing can up with new twists and turns in ideas that one person alone never could. These ideas are just my pieces of “thought up opinion,” formed by what has seemed to work for me.

    What are your opinions and what has worked for you in your “creations?”

    ………Stanelle

    #73322
    mysteriesofthesea
    Participant

    I would like to think that even if I don’t have my name on something that I have written or co-written that what I have written would still shine through as there are certain things that I have said that could be repeated only in my voice and there are things that you have said in your wriiten voice which could only be said in the chosen way that you have to say it.

    I would also like to think that I write for the reasons that I do write for, and money is not the only reason that I write things on screen or on paper. I hope that I can write to create beauty. I know that Keats wrote to create beauty and he felt that was a good enough reason to write:

    “Truth is Beauty..Beauty is Truth. That is all ye know on earth and all you need to know!!”

    Sound corny?

    I just PM’ed someone this morning with the idea that one can write simply for personal pleasure and that is reason enough to write…i..e..Emily Dickenson:

    “How…to be somebody…
    How public like a frog
    …To croak your name the live-long day
    To an admiring bog!”

    And Emily Bronte:

    “No coward soul is mine!
    No trembler in this world’s storm trouble sphere…
    ..I see Heaven’s glories shine
    And faith shine equal…
    …Arming me from fear!!”

    What is your opinion and how does it relate to what I have said. Also do you think that an artist is obligated to create a vision of truth or beauty or just “what is”…in this world?

    ……Stanelle,
    who is going back for another cup
    of virtual hard cider in the virtual pub!

    #73323
    mysteriesofthesea
    Participant

    invite anyone else,..who is interested to join in this discussion!!

    Posed question:

    Are science fiction writers obligated to create a picture of the future as “beauty” or of the future as a harsh “reality”?

    ……Stanelle

    #73324
    Sidhecafe
    Participant

    Do you belive in creating your perception of beauty for the pleasure of “creating beauty?”

    Yes I do, but I also believe that the beauty is there already…our creations are almost homage to or expression of the beauty that exists always….

    “You can travel the world to find the beautiful, but you must carry it with you or find it not.” Ralph Waldo Emerson.

    My writing is mostly for myself because it’s simply what I do. I don’t do it to make money or impress others or change the world – I do it because it’s in me and has to come out. It’s who I am.

    When I first moved to Boston I took a “Intro to Writing” class just to keep me motivated. And the instructor was really focused on writing “bestsellers”.

    I interrupted him in class and told him I thought that was unnecessary to go in to, since best sellers are merely that, things that sell the most- which is certainly no indication of how well something is written or the value it has to the writer.

    We butted heads through the whole course- and he asked me to talk to the class about poetry – because he didn’t write any!!! Said he didn’t really understand it. 🙂

    I love writing. I love creating characters out of myself that challenge me. I share my stuff with friends and family. I’ve sent one story out and got some rejections letters – a couple even with some good feedback 😯 .

    I don’t know if I’d want the pressure of producing product for my living…though the thought of collaborating on a project does sound very attractive. What really made me think of that was the interviews of Phillipa Boynes/Peter Jackson about working also with Fran Walsh on the adaptation of The Lord of the Rings. How they each contributed with careful consideration the intrepretation of that work….I was practically drooling with envy!! 😉

    My creations are very emotive in nature. I usualy start with an instant wherein a character is acting out from an emotional state and then the story evolves around that character what she is doing, why and how did it come to be…

    However I also feel that writing is not the sole thing I cna contribute…I also used to draw when I was younger and haven’t since. But I love to make collages occasionally and other odd projects…last weekend I started work on making my own mobile of the Solar System. I need it too for the story I’m working on now.

    Every once in a while I need to branch out again, last winter I took violin lessons for a while….

    But I’m now applying to grad school again, hopefully this will be the right program at the right time. I’d like to use my reading, writing and comprehesion skills in an academic setting once more – in a more focused way this time around 😉 to enrich myself and then inturn hope to enrich others.

    what has worked for you in your “creations?”

    What really worked the best for me was the old writing workshop I had been in, unfortunately I couldn’t take it with me when I moved!
    It was a great group of people with a great leader. It never turned into group therapy – it was all about the writing and help each other become better writers. Good helpful feedback – always balanced – with like to not like….And when you didn’t like somthing you told the writer it didn’t work for you how could they try it differently and stay true to their vision.

    That might sound coddling to some, but it was all designed to strengthen the writer, build confidence and encourage risk taking. plus it was a pleasure to interact with a group of varied talented writers.

    But in a more personal way – what works the best for me is to really let the characters speak and be who they are — it feels a litle multiple personalityish sometimes…but once I know a character well enough, that personality helps shape the story.

    Need to go and make paper snow flakes now…. 😆

    #73328
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Truth is Beauty..Beauty is Truth. That is all ye know on earth and all you need to know!!

    So beauty equals truth, but it’s also said that beauty is relative since “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” and also it’s said that “the truth can be ugly.” That “truth writ large” or, following the initial statement, “beauty”, is “written in the stars” is absolutism. Where am I going with this? Appearances. Truth is objectice, yet the appearance of truth or beauty, as filtered through the eye, or mind’s eye, is subjective. I’m relatively relativist.

    Are science fiction writers obligated to create a picture of the future as “beauty” or of the future as a harsh “reality”?

    If beauty is truth, truth is reality, and the reality of the future is harsh, then “oh what [perverse?] fearsome symmetry” (my line edited for postal symmetry)

    I’ve touched on this subject somewhatHERE (click) and elsewhere, often SF is speculative in nature — an extrapolation of events, predictions based on the current world. Is a dystopian reality more prophetic than a future utopia? Judging by where we are, I fear so.

    Possible worlds… I have a penchant for dytopian cautonary tales when it comes to possible futures. I think the best writers, including futurists, make us question the world we live in, and even the values we live by. By positing potential futures for us, they are, of course, making a statement about how we live today….

    I’m worried about where we’re going to, where we are, (and where we’ve been) and we should be scared, damn, we should be disgusted. Healthy fear may lead to positive action. I don’t want to see an imagined future sugar-coated, like everything magically just turned out well (think through cause and effect), but at the same time cynicism can lead to apathy… There has to be hope, but that hope is best when realitic. Many great futuristic tales offer a positive vision of the future, but also offer a recipe for a successful future.

    The truth of the future is that it will be ugly unless we make positive changes in the present.

    As to the model of beautiful writing, like fashion models, it tends to be symmetrical.

    As there’s no time like the present, I would like to say far more, clean up my post, and finish reading the thread, but I am looking after a baby at the same time… More at some time in the future!

    For now I’ll leave you with a quote from the amazing Criswell…

    “We are all interested in the future, for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. And remember, my friends: future events, such as these, will affect you … in the future!”

    #73330
    mysteriesofthesea
    Participant

    answer for both of you !! Right now I. too,..have a responsiblity that calls me..”MOM,” is six feet three something, 250 pounds,..and has to go to work!!

    Talk to you both..shortly!!

    …..Stanelle

    #73334
    Sidhecafe
    Participant

    Logan wrote:

    So beauty equals truth, but it’s also said that beauty is relative since “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” and also it’s said that “the truth can be ugly.” That “truth writ large” or, following the initial statement, “beauty”, is “written in the stars” is absolutism. Where am I going with this? Appearances. Truth is objectice, yet the appearance of truth or beauty, as filtered through the eye, or mind’s eye, is subjective. I’m relatively relativist.

    Mysteries of the Sea wrote:
    Are science fiction writers obligated to create a picture of the future as “beauty” or of the future as a harsh “reality”?

    If beauty is truth, truth is reality, and the reality of the future is harsh, then “oh what [perverse?] fearsome symmetry” (my line edited for postal symmetry)

    Everyone must have their own definition of beauty. I don’t believe in objectivity. My degree in Journalism and time as a reporter taught me that.

    Sidhecafe’s (my) definition of beauty:

    Beauty is anything that takes my breath away. Stops me for a moment in time – stops me paying out my currency – and places me in a state of awe. Hence: terrible beauty, sad beauty, gentle beauty, precise beauty.

    Beauty does not negate ugliness. Like all variations of light and dark- you cannot have one without the defining/differentiating presence of the other.
    Without opposites adjectives would go the way of adverbs….meaningless overstatements.

    As I describe in Emerson’s statement, in order to see beauty in the world, one must believe in beauty….but to believe in beauty is to know and accept that the opposite exists.

    The banal, disgusting and disturbing world.

    However, I’m a person who believes and accepts that that must exist too. Not that I’m happy about it, or that I will not rail against it- I’m not a fatalist. We are meant to make it better even if some of our species seems bent on the other direction.
    And scifi is one of the best way I know to explore and be reminded of this.

    Why, in college, I took classes like Body Politic: Images of the Body in Science Fiction and Utopian Literature, Women’s Utopias & Intro to Science Fiction in college…as well as Woman, Man & Myth and Myths of the Feminine

    Philip K. Dick’s work points out the everyday horrors technology could wreak in our intimate lives, Tanith Lee that we are human animals still trying to learn the world- and always will be.

    *breathe* think I’m getting a little to dark here for my own good…enough of that for the moment…

    More input from others would be great!!!!

    #73346
    mysteriesofthesea
    Participant

    o’clock in the morning is a can of diet coke!! That diet coke takes on the shape in my mind of a “thing of beauty,..which will last forever and never fade”…. (I am very guilty this morning of BAD metaphors!!”)

    Truth, Logan,..is absolute.

    What is,..after the event has happened,..is. That which has happened cannot be undone. All the pretending by all of the humanity in the world,.. as to how that humanity choses to percieve WHAT we call the past,…cannot alter the past.

    History,..the written perception of one or two or a dozen people,..according to their time and culture,.is a written record of human perception of the past. Human perception is constantly changing. That makes truth,..an absolute…..i..e….

    “What is,..IS!”

    My perception of “what is”..will change. Your perception of what is will change. But what has actually happened will never change.

    “WHAT IS,…IS!”

    What has happened in the past can only be altered by human perception of it. The events,..as they have actually occured,..never change with someone’s…”authoritative opinion!”

    As you said the only “alterably viable” part of the time continuum is the future. I feel when Keats wrote the “Truth is Beauty” verses he was sort of telling us to look around ourselves and see what there actually is in this world,..warts and all..(even “Bimblewarts!”)…that we will find in ..”those things and events,” which..”ARE”..forever and unchanging,..a perception of beauty,.which will never change,.
    ..and last forever!!

    Sidhecafe,..you say that beauty is that experience which comes with encountering those events or experiences or “objects d’art, which..take your breath away.” By that standard,..my constant wheezing and need for an inhalor is explained!!

    ( Still digressing!!!!!! Waiting for news on upcoming book tour and reception!! I’m goin’ a travelin’!!”)

    ………………….Stanelle

    #73350
    Sidhecafe
    Participant

    mysteriesofthesea wrote:

    Truth, Logan,..is absolute.

    What is,..after the event has happened,..is. That which has happened cannot be undone. All the pretending by all of the humanity in the world,.. as to how that humanity choses to percieve WHAT we call the past,…cannot alter the past.

    There I think I might have to disagree, I don’t believe truth is absolute in a communal way, only in an individual way. And even then it can change.

    When truth becomes absolute for the community is what inspires books like 1984 and Anthem to be written. However we have to agree on some things for societies to remain cohesive…which would be an interesting tact for futurists and scifi writers to tackle now….how the communal truths are so disagreed upon as to start the breakdown of society (contemporaneous example- the USA).

    mysteriesofthesea wrote:

    Sidhecafe,..you say that beauty is that experience which comes with encountering those events or experiences or “objects d’art, which..take your breath away.” By that standard,..my constant wheezing and need for an inhalor is explained!!

    Yes and I hope I accurately got across that I don’t always equate beauty with happy thoughts.
    Joy and sorrow come from the same place. – Kahil Gibran

    Logan wrote:

    often SF is speculative in nature — an extrapolation of events, predictions based on the current world. Is a dystopian reality more prophetic than a future utopia? Judging by where we are, I fear so.

    I think this is why the human imagination is captured by scifi. It helps us prepare for the future…..all possible futures.
    And that is a very important function to provide for us. Very important.

    like individual imaginations tapping into the collective unconscious to provide for a need we all hold somewhere : hope and fear, pessimism and optimism for the future.

    #73354
    theFrey
    Participant

    Truth, Logan,..is absolute.

    What is,..after the event has happened,..is. That which has happened cannot be undone. All the pretending by all of the humanity in the world,.. as to how that humanity choses to percieve WHAT we call the past,…cannot alter the past. ………………….Stanelle

    Obi-wan said it best. What you were told was the truth *from a certain point of view*

    While there are exceptions here and there of course, the truth as we perceive it is more *the truth of that moment* It can be altered or shaded as more facts become available or indeed as the passions of the moment pass and comunal reasoning is stacked against it.

    Lots of stuff can alter *the truth* including things that were not known at the time. A perfect example is DNA evidence on old cases. The truth of who killed someone can change when you find out that the other blood at the scene belonged to the neighbor and not the poor smuck who just happened to take advantage of keys dropped by an unattended car and had the bad luck to have the same blood type as the killer.

    #73355
    Sidhecafe
    Participant

    thefrey wrote:

    While there are exceptions here and there of course, the truth as we perceive it is more *the truth of that moment* It can be altered or shaded as more facts become available or indeed as the passions of the moment pass and comunal reasoning is stacked against it.

    Yes- a more concise way of saying part of what I was trying to say, thanks thefrey!

    Nice tie in with Obi-Wan too!!!

    #73358
    mysteriesofthesea
    Participant

    I can see what you mean as to my idea of “what HAS actually happened in the past…is unchangable and therefore, it is …”what-is-true” as being my perception of truth.

    I guess that I feel that the closer an event comes to “un-changeability” the closer that it is to the truth…ie..no matter what your “concept” of a certain historical event is,.the way that it “actually happened” is unchangable and therefore,..true.

    I am posing that as a model for “truth” as the way that something originally is,” the closer it is to unchangeability,….”the closer to “truth.” I also understand that that is my percertion of truth.

    What say you?

    ……..Stanelle

    #73360
    theFrey
    Participant

    Actually historical record is usually terrible at getting to the heart of what is truth.

    Case in point a wonderful book by Will Cuppy, ‘The Decline and Fall of Practically Everybody’ he meticulously researched twenty two historical personalities and the reasons for some of the stuff they did… or didn’t do. and the actual whys of what happened which is seldom correctly attributed. His point is that the truth of the past depends on who is recording it. He didn’t think much of Mr. Gibbon, I can tell you. 🙂

    When first offered for publication, it was rejected as a book of fiction, but later studies have borne out just about all of his assertions. The fact that the book is a hysterical scream is just a bonus. I first came across this book at my theGrandmother’s house when I was a kiddo, I had much fun consulting it during history class. Amazingly enough, theTeacher was initially amused, they came around when I lent it to them to read. Sadly that copy has gone to dust, but I was lucky enough to get a new copy ten or so years ago when it was re-issued. It is currently available at amazon.com and would make an excellent stocking stuffer for anyone who has a history buff in the family.

    #73362
    Sidhecafe
    Participant

    FAITH or rather BELIEF is not the same as TRUTH.

    Truth is an unconfirmed concept. A hypothothesis of reality. But truth can really go the way as Time….”blood under the bridge”.

    Truth and the arguement that it produces is dangerous ground for a species that has not moved beyond “eye for an eye” mentalities of justice and revenge.

    We must respect what one another believes, however and this is my version of Truth.

    Which is more accurately put as my belief in the shape of things for me.

    What any one believes as their truth must just be accepted as their Faith.

    We could spend days, megabites going back and forth over what truth is….But how does that apply to us being Scifi fans??

    Scifi provides an excellent forum in which to explore these ideas….as I mentioned before to play in our imaginations with our possible futures.

    history backwards/ reverse history…..that’s a potential of SciFi.

    #73364
    mysteriesofthesea
    Participant

    Can one get it at Amazon or Barnes and Noble?

    Hmmmmn!

    Would any of you folks consider GULLIVER’S TRAVELS by Jonathan Swift as an early form of science fiction or fantasy? It has TEENY tiny little people and giants and time travel and “anthrophomorphic mystic beings,”…ie.. talking horses, who live out man’s version of “human justice and morality”..in a way far better than the humans in the book ever could. I realize Swift was making social comments on his own time as often sci-fi writers do in this day and age and he hits home very well with some of the basic truths that he covers for his time and his day!!

    Also,..the UNCENSORED version of GULLIVER’S TRAVELS really lets the reader see what a genius Jonathan Swift was at social commentery!! Sort of the same as I view the TV show, Lexx, as being a modern version of social commentery for today..same as GULLIVER’S TRAVELS…was for the sixteenth century. Actually,..if one compares the two works of fiction on a social commentery basis,..they have a LOT in common!! And they speak of wonders yet to come in the world of J. Swift’s day and the present day!!

    What think you?

    …..Stanelle

    #73371
    mysteriesofthesea
    Participant

    as I will be taking a “road trip”…in order to launch a new book and to promote several older publications by Densmore Reid Publications.

    Thanks, Sidhecafe for some stimulating conversation!!
    😛
    Thanks Logan for giving me some ideas about the relativity of truth. 😯 🙂

    Thanks Frey, for helping to moderate a “civilized site” like Saddy’s so that one can have a nice rambling off-beat conversation without name calling and games!! 😀

    Another nice place like this is http://www.Lexxfans.com.

    Bye! Bye!!

    ……..Stanelle

    #73382
    Sidhecafe
    Participant

    This has been very mind exercising!!!!

    Thanks from me as well: To Stanelle, Logan, thefrey and Lexxlurker…

    great questions to ask of the genre that draws us!!!

    Bravo!

    I love http://www.sadgeezer.com…. 😳

    #73393
    mysteriesofthesea
    Participant

    And I am “dry-docked!!” I took a “header,” down a flight of 13 steps, which cut off any ambitions that I might have had for futrue traveling for a while!! Have a very large lump on the top of my head as a reminder that I should not try to go running down steps no matter what the circumstances and a twisted knee!! 😳 😯

    As usual,..I had to create my own excitment. The “exciting events,”..taking place around me,..were not enough for me! No Sir!! I had to top off eveything by “falling on my head!!”

    Our local lady doc told me to lay down and stay down!! Naturally,..I got up again and waddled across the street and checked out the “daily goings-on” in the “kiddie” library down the street from our house and got my usual friendly greeting!!

    I had the satisfaction of seeing the copy of Walking Free: The Nellie Zimmerman Story,.the resident copy of my book,…was in the most worn looking shape of any other book in the library. According to the librarian,..it is very often checked out by quite a few people!! 😯 😀

    Heh! This means that this copy of the book will soon be replaced by two copies..so I “ain’t” cryin’ over that!! More sales!!

    Anyway,..how many of you folks have felt that you could write and had a scifi story,..fan fiction or otherwise..that you were sure that others would like, and just didn’t “put the words on paper”

    ..Because you were sure that you “just couldn’t do it?”

    ….Because you felt that..”you just couldn’t do it because you had been told so and not everyone can write and you didn’t want to make a fool of yourself and…Blah!! Blah!! Blah!

    ….Can’t do it! Can’t do it!! I can’t give myself permission to put words on paper..’cause I might make a fool of myself!!!”

    I am just curious. Might even start another post IN THE PUB…..if I get enough responses or any responses to my question.

    The reason that I am asking this question is that I just sold about a hundred dollars worth of books written by a fellow “scifi fan, who didn’t even know that she couild write till she got started writing on a certain scifi bboard and discovered that others liked her stories.
    She certainly CAN write ’cause I’ve got several local folks bugging me about when her second vampire book is going to be coming out!! And I am reselling her original books,..as second hand books, several times over!! 😈 😀

    (This is just an example!! Anyone interested in this subject?)

    Ooooooooooooooh Sidhecafe!

    Looooooooogan!!

    Any comments?

    ………….Stanelle,
    who is just curious
    and making no promises
    to ANYONE!!

    #73394
    Sidhecafe
    Participant

    Now mysteriesofthesea, you take care of your noggin!!! You only get one!

    Very sorry to hear about your fall, great news about you book though!

    Good and bad altogether….

    As for writing, I just wish I could finish this scifi story….it starts and stops and this has been going on for about 15 years now….

    But my other fable/fantasy story is doing a great job of lining my wall with rejection letters – but I’m still plugging away, someone is bound to want it!! Some of the others even said it was well written, just not what they were looking for…so that was very encouraging!

    Happy friday!!!!

    #73405
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Anyway,..how many of you folks have felt that you could write and had a scifi story,..fan fiction or otherwise..that you were sure that others would like, and just didn’t “put the words on paper”..because you were sure that you “just couldn’t do it?”….because you felt that..”you just couldn’t do it because you had been told so and not everyone can write and you didn’t want to make a fool of yourself and…Blah!! Blah!! Blah!….Can’t do it! Can’t do it!! I can’t give myself permission to put words on paper..’cause I might make a fool of myself!!!”

    Sorry about your injuries. 🙁 Hope you recover soon.

    I rarely write fiction now, and even when I was fairly prolific, I rarely wrote sci-fi (there was this one long story with an environmental message I was working on within the past few years about aliens who were after our sewage). Incidentally, I prefer not to follow genre conventions when writing, though that can help sell a piece, ’cause many people like to know what to expect when you say, say, sci-fi.

    As long as I’ve worked out the concepts (I usually plot out the details with an outline first), I can usually get the words on paper with relative ease (of course I still have to edit, edit, and re-edit which I find so tedious that I eventually lose patience — I’m lazy by nature). Incidentally, for me to come up with a decent post I also have to edit and re-edit, unfortunately laziness usually wins out.

    Really, I’m my own worst critic (overly hard on myself, and that can be discouraging) — you see, I don’t want to write a story that’s mediocre at best… Generally I’ve found others to be encouraging, but constructive criticism is far more valuable than vacuous praise. The worst, like a post you loving crafted 😆 , can be no comment at all. But that doesn’t mean it’s bad, it may mean that it’s so clever/profound that others are intimidated by it, and don’t want to look inferior by responding to it. 😉 😆

    It’s often said that if you can’t take criticism, and learn from it, you shouldn’t be doing it, and at the same you have to be confident in yourself to do a task well and to sell it afterwards. Writing well takes time, effort, and commitment to your craft. Sucesss breeds confidence, but we can’t start off successful — it takes diligence.

    It’s important to know where your work needs improvement (and we can always improve), but be confident that we can correct our mistakes with practice (especially structure, word choice, etc.). The illusion that we are great will only lead to disappointment (and scorn from others if we appear arrogant), but that doesn’t mean we should be discouraged just because it could be better.

    Everyone’s a critic, but not everyone can adequately support, or communicate their opinions. If others tell me that what I wrote was bad, I’ll ask them why? If they can’t offer contructive reasons, then I’ll dismiss them as phillistines, or something like that. Anyway, it can be so subjective.. An enjoyable story is so much in the eye of the beholder…

    It often tends to just boil down to personal preference anyway (rather than than say generally held standards when it comes to the basic mechanics of writing)… You can’t communicate all ideas to all people. We have different life experiences, and think differently. It doesn’t matter how “good” or “beautiful” (subjective terms 😉 ) what you wrote is, not everyone will like it, and not everyone will “get” it.

    As a writer you’re writing for yourself, and your audience… If you want success (and praise), it helps to define who that audience is… If there is actice discouragement, it’s good to know if it’s coming from the particular “market” you are targetting.

    #73400
    mysteriesofthesea
    Participant

    THE BLACK HEART BOOK has been made into a movie script!! 😯 😯 😀

    Just found out by phone!! Whoooop! Whoooop! 😯 😀 8)

    I know it does not seem much to anyone else, but it seems a miracle of God…..(Hope the mention of a Higher Existense offends no one. 😉 )……to me!! 😀 😀

    Caaaaaaackle!

    ………..Stanelle,

    who remembrs a quote:

    “……she probably couldn’t even think a complete thought,…..or finish a complete sentence!
    …just give her “one”.
    ..so that she’ll think she has the same as everyone else’s.
    ….she..doesn’t really have to be a part of the group!”

    Possible dialogue..for next book! 🙄 😈 😈 😈 😈

    Sidhecafe,..don’t ask,..you DON’T want to know!!

    #73198
    mysteriesofthesea
    Participant

    What actual markets are you writing for? Who have you been trying to sell ideas to, where have you been getting your ideas from, and if you have been team-writing,..who have you been team writing with?

    When you are writing,..do you come up with your own ideas or do you listen to the opinions of others and try to graft your own points of view onto what someone else thinks?

    Could you condemn the passions of another person so that you go go along with the popular opinion of a certain “in-group” and base that condemnation on the opinions of others without REALLY knowing that other person,..who was being condemned?

    What I am asking you is,..”What are your reasons to write? Are you writing because you have something to say? Are you writing for profit? Do you write with doubt in your minds about your writing ability or have you written with the assurance that what you have had to say is worth the saying?
    Would what you write have to show a profit..i..e..earn money or a prize for you to consider yourself a successful writer? Just curious!”

    Sidhecafe and Logan,..question here!:

    Would you be a ghost-writer…for say,…a dying person..even if what that dying person had to say in their story or stories..offended your personal code of ethics?

    Logan,..I have read in some of your past posts that you believe something to the effect that a person should write what they had to write no matter what others thought about how they were using the art of writing to express themselves. Do you believe that “code” would extend to a dying friend as well?

    Do you think one should criticize or mock when one does not fully appreciate what is entirely happening in a given situation?

    Logan,..I can see you as a prolific writer. You always have seemed to have a lot to say in all of your posts. I have a feeling that you could easily write circles around me!!

    Heh! I had to giggle at the thought of a bunch of aliens coming to earth..in search of our sewage!!! That must be one story with a real “air” to it!! (Sorry!)

    When I start to write,..I have to be “into” the subject and then,..what I basically have to say comes flowing out.

    As my auditory assimilation of concepts has been altered during my lifetime,.I have had to use others to explain to me different interpretations of social ideation and interaction….In other words..sometimes others have to explain to me ..”just what has been said and the social implications of the situation.” This affects what I put down on paper or computer screen.

    And you are right about having to “edit,..edit,.and more editing!!!”

    (Whoops…distraction!!)

    ……Stanelle

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