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In the process of resolving an issue involving DragonCon 2003, I found out the general plan for that event. The cast of Lexx have not been formally invited. This is why so many of them will be in attendance. They will not be signing autographs and selling pictures alongside the cast of Farscape, Babylon 5, and Star Trek in the area designated as “The Walk of Fame.” Instead, they will sign and sell autographs at either a merchants’ room booth or a table someplace in the halls, lobbies and atriums of the hotels. They will not be listed in the convention guest list, nor will they be treated as such by the convention staff.
From my past experiences with conventions during the last 15 years, I’ve witnessed similar situations like this. In the eyes of the typical convention member, the celebrity doing this is selling themselves short, obviously trying to make a buck, are starved for attention, or worse. At best, the actor’s presentation at the convention will seem tacky and second-rate.
There’s a possibility that what is planned will come into conflict with convention policy. I’m not sure about this. But the bottom line is that the Lexx actors will be treated like second-class celebrities.
When I first found out about this (I’m not involved with the Lexx event planning at DragonCon 2003), I thought this arrangement was strange. Then it dawned on me how the presentation of the Lexx actors will be perceived by the rest of the convention. Realization turned into horror because I love Lexx so much and I don’t want to see these people look bad.
What do you think?
grape i think brian and them do all this for the love of the fans — image is nothin ya know. if they know the deal and are cool with it then i’m not going to stand in their way. i doubt i’ll make it to dragon this year because i’m one broke-grrl in KY, but, theres always next year. and i hope the lexx ppls are there. š
š Yikes, I can see this will be a hot topic, but I’m actually going to try to be practical (yeah, go ahead and laugh everybody). FG, your poll frames the situation in a black/white manner but since this is the official USCon, I don’t think you really expect anyone to dis-invite the cast at this point. You have legitimate concerns though, so what’s the solution?
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First, I don’t have any experience with Dragon Con so I have two questions:1. Is this an unusual situation for DragonCon or do other “celebs” who aren’t on the guest list attend?
2. Will all the Lexx cast members have the same status, i.e. none of them are official invitees?
It seems to me that since the Lexx parties are invitation only and will, I assume (haven’t checked the party details, sorry), be in private rooms, the casts’ presence at the parties (or at scheduled forums for that matter) shouldn’t cause them any loss of prestige. Think of it as being like Disney or Viacom trucking some of their stars into the private parties they throw for their clients at the broadcasting conventions. They’re often a hotter ticket than the convention itself.
If all the Lexx cast members are unofficial attendees, then the USCon organizers are the ones responsible for getting them VIP treatment–pickup at the airport, escorts to their rooms and various events, dinner reservations, passes to events, etc.–whatever it takes to make them feel like they’re not second class citizens. If a couple of them are official and the rest are not, it’s probably doubly important to make the “unofficial” ones feel they’re getting equally good treatment. Celebrity wrangling is actually a lot of work and it has to be done by reliable people, but that’s the way to keep your stars happy. I’m sure the UsCon organizers are aware of this and I imagine they’re rounding up help.
The signing and selling is another issue–I know it’s an accepted practice and everyone does it blah blah, but frankly, it’ll be a cold day in hell before I pay any actor for an autograph no matter what show they’re in, I’m afraid my views on this topic are jaundiced. So for me, I’m not sure the location matters much in terms of “prestige”. It’s more a question of can you get any kind of volume if you’re not on the main floor? How important are the sales to them? Do they need to sell enough to subsidize their trip? etc.
UnCon didn’t have to deal with these types of issues; UsCon is going to be a lot harder to organize especially the first time around. But if the cast members are eager to attend, maybe we should put our heads together to figure out if there’s a way to make it work. The organizers really have a major task ahead of them–I’m sure they’re as concerned as you are that the Lexx cast is treated well.
elmey
Well, Iām guessing that the Lexx folks that show up are there because they want to be there ā otherwise they wouldnāt show up. I certainly donāt think there is anything āsecond-rateā about them showing up even if they arenāt sitting near some of the other sci-fi celebs. I think they do it because they like being around the fans.
As far as the Lexx actors being treated like āsecond-class celebritiesā I donāt think thatās necessarily going to happen, at least not by anyone important. Lexx may have a small fan base compared to shows like Star Trek or Farscape, but anyone who has been to an UnCon in Halifax, or went to MegaCon a few months ago knows that we are all pretty much ārabidā Lexx fans. Again, I think they (the Lexx cast) do it because they genuinely like being around us fans.
One other thought: When I went to MegaCon (my first big sci-fi convention) and found out that there was a price for autographs, pics, etc. I was kind of upset about it. But I later found out that many of the celebs (and all of the Lexx cast in particular) showed up at their own expense. Airfare, hotel, food, etc. was paid for out of their own pockets. In that perspective, itās very much worth it to pay a few bucks for an autograph or whatever because they go to these conventions for people like us.
So, my take on the situation is this: if we (Lexx fans) get to hang out, chat, have a drink, get pics and autographs, etc. with Brian, Xenia, Patricia, Louise, Ellen, and others, it doesnāt really matter what the ārest of the conventionā thinks. Besides, itās all about fun too, isnāt it?
See you in Atlanta!
Jim Davis(Forgive me for quoting you a bunch of times, elmey. But you bring up VERY good points that must be addressed.)
”elmey” wrote:š Yikes, I can see this will be a hot topic, but I’m actually going to try to be practical (yeah, go ahead and laugh everybody). FG, your poll frames the situation in a black/white manner but since this is the official USCon, I don’t think you really expect anyone to dis-invite the cast at this point. You have legitimate concerns though, so what’s the solution?
“Yikes” barely scratches the surface. When I found out what was happening, I exclaimed something far more dire. That is what has me so concerned. This situation was already decided and put into action by UsCon in the name of all Lexx fans in the USA. But, in fact, none of the USA fans were consulted about this VERY imporatant decision. It was put into action when it was determined that none of the Lexx actors were to be invited. (For that matter, the name of the club was never up for debate either. The rest of fandom will be scratching their heads at that one too.)
”elmey” wrote:First, I don’t have any experience with Dragon Con so I have two questions:
1. Is this an unusual situation for DragonCon or do other “celebs” who aren’t on the guest list attend?
2. Will all the Lexx cast members have the same status, i.e. none of them are official invitees?
You don’t understand. DragonCon is not “doing” anything! NONE of the Lexx actors are official invities! This situation was entirely arranged by UsCon without consulting Lexx fans. Other “celebs” who attend but are not on the guest list are universally regarded as nobodies or worse. Most fans don’t know about money or fandom politics. All they see are non-celeberties who were not invited who are trying to hawk their autographs and cash in on DragonCon. To them, it will seem like it’s in VERY poor taste. It doesn’t matter that they know nothing about plans for Lexx fan parties or whatever. If they don’t want to appear like they are there just for money, they could give away their pictures and autographs for free. But they are not going to do that and further debase their vaule or importance in the future.
Listen, if the whole point is to get together for Lexx fans, that’s wonderful. If they don’t care about selling autographs and presenting themselves to the rest of science-fiction fandom, then why bother showing their faces at DragonCon? And if there is no desire to gain members, why would the official USA Lexx fan club bother setting up a table at DragonCon? Do we all give a darn about how we look at DragonCon or not? If we DON’T, then we are certainly on that track.
”elmey” wrote::It seems to me that since the Lexx parties are invitation only and will, I assume (haven’t checked the party details, sorry), be in private rooms, the casts’ presence at the parties (or at scheduled forums for that matter) shouldn’t cause them any loss of prestige. Think of it as being like Disney or Viacom trucking some of their stars into the private parties they throw for their clients at the broadcasting conventions. They’re often a hotter ticket than the convention itself.
I’m sorry, it would be nice to think of it that way, but you’d just be fooling yourself. The parties are private but open to all Lexx fans. DragonCon has nothing to do with the arrangement or advertisement of the parties. And advertising such non-convention activity is not only frowned upon but such inappropriate advertising is activly discouraged. Do we want to get in trouble with DragonCon?
As far as prestige is concerned, they are at the BOTTOM so they won’t start out with any at the convention in the first place. They are paying their own way into the convention at regular door price. They can attend scheduled forums, but they won’t be listed anywhere in the programs and therefore will not be featured. I think we will be lucky if Lexx get’s one panel discussion. (Hell, ANY show can get at least one panel discussion there. It’s a HUGE convention. I attended a Space: 1999 panel discussion and there were just as many people in the panel as there were in the audience!) But the Lexx stars will not be FEATURED in any Q&A sessions, panel discussion, convention events, etc. Unless you surf the web, any casual or potential Lexx fan will have NO IDEA that they will be there. That’s part of the reason why they have a guest list. The guest list is used to advertise the convention and attract appropriate fans. As it stands, NO ONE will know that the Lexx actors will be there beforehand except for very dedicated Lexx fans who also happen to surf the internet. And there are plenty of HUGE Lexx fans out there in the world who do not have or do not use computers. So the hope is that random people who are attending the convention because of OTHER genre shows, movies, books, games, etc., will notice the Lexx presence. This is a less than ideal situation to say the least!
”elmey” wrote:The signing and selling is another issue–I know it’s an accepted practice and everyone does it blah blah, but frankly, it’ll be a cold day in hell before I pay any actor for an autograph no matter what show they’re in, I’m afraid my views on this topic are jaundiced. So for me, I’m not sure the location matters much in terms of “prestige”. It’s more a question of can you get any kind of volume if you’re not on the main floor? How important are the sales to them? Do they need to sell enough to subsidize their trip? etc.
Damned good points and damned good questions. There are plenty of fans in fandom who think like you do, that dislike the idea of actors selling autographs. (I happen to disagree. I love collecting them. But that’s beside the point.) And therefore there will be THOUSANDS of such fans at the convention who will see them there selling autographs in an area that is NOT the universally well-know area for selling autographs (the “Walk of Fame”). And what are they going to think of that?
Yes, the sale of autographs helps subsidize their trip. If they were invited guests at DragonCon, some of their expenses would have been paid for by the convention staff. There are varying tiers of guest status, too. Some big-time stars have everything paid for them– air fare, hotel room, food, transport. And lesser guest have less things that are paid for them– perhaps only room and board and convention membership. Maybe only the convention membership is free and that’s all. The Lexx actors will receive NONE of these amenities.
And ALL of this will be plainly visible to any experienced convention member who sees their regular, non-guest convention badge. Said experienced fanboy will look at them, look at their badge, look what they’re selling, look at where their located, maybe even remember something about a show called Lexx and it’s badboy status in fandom, and walk away shaking his head. It will seem so strange and in bad taste, that it will make a good story for him to tell his friends at lunch time. Word will spread throughout the convention– not because of the surprise bonus celebrities that have shown up but because of the overall pathetic presentation. You mark my words! That is exactly what will happen.
”elmey” wrote:UnCon didn’t have to deal with these types of issues; UsCon is going to be a lot harder to organize especially the first time around. But if the cast members are eager to attend, maybe we should put our heads together to figure out if there’s a way to make it work. The organizers really have a major task ahead of them–I’m sure they’re as concerned as you are that the Lexx cast is treated well.
elmey
Yes, UnCon didn’t have to deal with these issues at all. Regular mainstream fandom is an entirely different story. It’s true that Lexx fans consider themselves to be nonconformists and not like other groups in fandom. But the makers of Lexx had to follow certain forms in order to have their show made and broadcast on television and presented to the world. The presence of the Lexx actors at these conventions is an extension of that. (Many Farscape fans will know that the stars of that show were under contract to not attend any conventions until they left the show– hence the presence of Virginia Hey and Lani Tupu last year at DragonCon 2002). All the other stars of these sci-fi television shows are either invited guests and, therefore, sit at the “Walk of Fame,” or they do not come to the convention at all for the precise reasons I have stated. If a given star doesn’t know much about DragonCon or conventions in general and say, “I’ll come anyway,” they would be advised by any number of people– agents, managers, fans– that such a course of action would not be appropriate and detrimental to their image. DraonCon doesn’t care because they are there to make money.
Do we care about how they look to the rest of fandom and how we promote the show? Or are we just happy that they are there and we can party with them? If it’s the latter, WHY HAVE THEM COME TO DRAGONCON IN THE FIRST PLACE? Why not just have another UnCon? I think what’s happening is that the spirit of UnCon is being imbued upon the hugest mainstream fandom convention and it just won’t fit like that. I think use of the similar name, “UsCon,” underscores this. The fact that fans from other genres will will wonder what the heck “UsCon,” means is the subject for a different debate altogether. People will come up to the club booth and ALL of them will ask, “When and and where is this ‘UsCon’?” because they will ALL think that they are advertising for some convention, not a fan club. Oh, wait. The name of the official United States Lexx fanclub was NEVER up for debate. Just like the plans for DragonCon 2003 were NEVER up for debate either!
”elfie” wrote:grape i think brian and them do all this for the love of the fans — image is nothin ya know. if they know the deal and are cool with it then i’m not going to stand in their way.(
Yes, Brian loves the fans very much. He has told me so. I think he would do anything he could for them.
But knowing Xenia, I don’t think she would be very happy with this substandard arrangement. Yes, she loves her fans very much too. She went to the trouble of making that little two-song CD this year because the fans wanted more music from her. But the arrangements made for her at DragonCon are nowhere near the same level of prominence or importance as what she did at MegaCon or that other con she did late last year. (She’s only done two so far.)
(Incidentally, I thought it was inappropriate to use harsh criticism of her CD as an underhanded means of taking a swipe at the folks who were promoting Xenia’s presence at MegaCon. All that did was make Xenia look bad and helped nothing. That whole MegaCon convention issue should have been discussed frankly and openly with Lexx fandom. A related but separate issue.)
theFrey wrote:This topic has gone into full Drama Queen Mode. Please don’t feed the Diva.
I don’t think you have any idea what you’re doing with DragonCon. Just like HDS over at Lexx.Com, you have nothing to say in defence of your actions. Just an INSULT.
Do you regard my dire criticism of what’s planned for DragonCon as an insult to YOU?
Flamegrape wrote:… the celebrity doing this is selling themselves short, obviously trying to make a buck, are starved for attention, or worse.
I’m sorry Flamegrape, I don’t understand. Are you planning to bar the Lexx cast to save them from themselves? Surely they will come and go as they please? Why are they going at all if they’ve not been invited? ā
(p.s. I’m sorry you had such a bad time at the last convention)Why I Left The Lexx Board…..
I read the question of the poll and decided not to vote. But the larger question is a more important one. Obsession…..more importantly…..fan obsession.
Flamegrape; we have had some fairly bombastic interactions on various forums here and on that “other board…..”. But I am speaking to you here as a friend; not as the obnoxious “Fatguy” – but as Maurice – a rather ordinary man who like many others, looks to escapism as a means of ignoring the more important issues in his life. This “therapy” is all well and good as long as we see this as “part-time activity” from the “real world”. But when the “real world” becomes too ugly; this attraction to the escapism found in sci-fi may become a fall into a very dark deep hole. I have been there many times while under pressure of school or work; but sooner or later you break the “fever” and get back to living in the real world (even though that may not be as exciting as sci-fi). That is why I made it very difficult to come back to LEXX.com for instance; the attraction of that place was too involved for me to continue – so I broke free the only way I knew I could. I have an obsessive personality – and this can be a good thing when concentrating on a particular task at hand – a bad thing when you fall into a trap. You may have fallen into such a trap and I suggest you ponder your recent actions and ask yourself where this is headed. You have many friends here and they can offer objective advice on whether my post here is well founded or not.
My advice to you Flamegrape – and I am making this as blatent as possible so there is no way to avoid the connection – is to take a “vacation” from sci-fi and get back to reality! This post is not a flame as I am genuinely concerned for your health. Others are likewise concerned; but do not have the “balls” to state the obvious – so I will. If you can not break free of this obsession – then I seriously suggest psychological help. As it stands right now, you are already publicly displaying yourself as a person in need of help – so I am trying to help you. If you need someone to talk to, there are many here, I am available also as (funny to be saying this) I consider you a friend.
Maurice
nursewhen wrote:Flamegrape wrote:… the celebrity doing this is selling themselves short, obviously trying to make a buck, are starved for attention, or worse.
I’m sorry Flamegrape, I don’t understand. Are you planning to bar the Lexx cast to save them from themselves? Surely they will come and go as they please? Why are they going at all if they’ve not been invited? ā [/quote]
They can come and go as they please, that’s true. They can pay money to have a table set up next to local Dungeons and Dragons club or the Pokemon Trading Card Society. They just won’t sitting anywhere near the other actors from other sci-fi shows who have been invited.And that’s a very good question. Why are they going at all if they’ve not been invited? No other sci-fi show actors do this. Ever!
Fatguy wrote:This “therapy” is all well and good as long as we see this as “part-time activity” from the “real world”. But when the “real world” becomes too ugly; this attraction to the escapism found in sci-fi may become a fall into a very dark deep hole. I have been there many times while under pressure of school or work; but sooner or later you break the “fever” and get back to living in the real world (even though that may not be as exciting as sci-fi). …You may have fallen into such a trap and I suggest you ponder your recent actions and ask yourself where this is headed.
You should be asking this question of HDS and theFrey, not me. I had nothing to do with the planning of Lexx’s presence at DragonCon. For a while, I hosted the party pages for a couple of conventions and did those video interviews. But that’s it. I have a life.
And I’ve also been around fandom for almost 15 years. I’ve SEEN this kind of thing before. Just about everyone I know in Lexx fandom does not have very much experience with conventions or fandom in general. Lexx is the first sci-fi show to really turn them on. That’s why it’s so difficult to explain it to everyone. HDS and theFrey have only been to DragonCon once and that was last year. Instead of first just setting up a club table at the convention this year, they are biting off way more than they can chew! And it seems that the actors’ convention manager is going along with the idea because he’s not paying for the tables. That’s one less thing to pay for.
At most, I expected one, maybe two actors from Lexx to be invited to DragonCon 2003. If none were invited, tough! That’s the way fandom and conventions work. But they are FORCING their presence there and it’s going to be received poorly by the rest of fandom. Perhaps received poorly by the staff DragonCon.
At Lolapalooza, either you’re a headline act, a sideshow band, or selling t-shirts and sodas outside in the parking lot. theFrey and HDS are going to have the equivalent of t-shirts and soda-selling for the Lexx actors at DragonCon. They are not invited and have their way payed for by DragonCon (like a headliner act). They are not even provided for in any way by the staff of DragonCon (like a sideshow act). They are permitted to park where they are because they’ve paid their admission and paid extra for some table space.
I was looking forward to DragonCon 2003. But when I found out what was going on, I’ve been in shock!
I can’t spend a lot of time going over this since I have a new job I have to train for out of town and I may not have a computer; so I hope to make this short and sweet.
Flame it is good you are concerned; I think that the cast should probably be asked if attending is a good idea; I have a tendency to believe that next year’s “acceptance” at DC really does not factor here nor does whether they sit near other stars or not. It might, it might not, it depends on the individual.
We are regular people, we are doing our best; but we don’t control DC so WE will do the best we can to treat our honored guests well. If it does not reach their standards then may be they should not attend. This is not the set of a movie theatre it’s a fan convention. If it’s “roughin’ it for some then so be it. Look I went to UnCon and slept in the back of a car in a parking lot in New Brunswick to go to see these peeps on their own turf. But you know THATS the fun stuff!
SO your concern Flame, duly noted. However, I must agree with Maurice in parts of what he says; you must do this for yourself and step away for a while. You had your release publically on LEXX.com š
now move away from it for a while. What’s done is done.If many Lexx fans make it to DragonCon, I’m sure the actors will be treated very kindly by them. That’s one of the larger reasons of why they are going to attend… for the fans, right? I think that most fans will take the time to find out where their at, and where to watch them.
I’m sure something will get planned out for them, there are just too many people devoted to them to not have anything run smoothly and nicely ššÆ
HOLY SMOKES, Flamegrape!!!
Now I understand what you’re so upset about. My conversation with Jeff Pittarelli at Chiller Theatre now makes sense.
Jeff hopes to meet Xenia some day and I told him about the LEXX cast appearing at DragonCon. He told me he’d been scanning cons listing and didn’t see any LEXX actors listed for DragonCon. When I explained that the fans were raising money for the cast’s rooms and expenses, he asked me to check my sources and make sure the actors are actually appearing. It seems Jeff used to attend DC all the time as a fan and tried to get contacts to appear as a guest and DC doesn’t permit uninvited guests to set up a table someplace and sign autographs or sell their stuff, even if they pay for a table.
I haven’t paid any attention to the details of the LEXX contigent at DC, since I can’t afford to go to anymore long-distance cons for the next fews year, so I don’t know what kind of arrangement Frey has set up. Even if the DC organizers are aware that the LEXX stars will be appearing at the fan club table and are allowing it, that doesn’t mean it won’t cause trouble with other fans or the invited guests. If guests have prima donna hissy fits about the way the LEXX actors are appearing, or if they get flack from fans about charging for autographs or charging so much more than the LEXX actors, they will tell the management, who will makes notes about “those LEXX people.”
Any profession that depends on word-of-mouth for its reputation, like entertainers and organizers of events, can’t afford bad word-of-mouth. The sentiment that’s been expressed here “we don’t care what the rest of the con thinks of us” could end up hurting the LEXX actors if the way they’re showing up at DC causes negative word-of-mouth among promoters. I don’t have all the facts, but it sounds to me like Frey, etal, are trying to have a typical unstructured, unorganized UnCon smack in the middle of a well established, establishment con. If the purpose it to make the causal fan aware of LEXX fandom and have them join the fanclub, this approach is likely to drive away more fans than it recruits. If the purpose is just for tried-and-true LEXX fans to have a place to get together and even meet the objects of their adoration, I’m with you in wondering WHY they have to do it in the middle of DragonCon.
Like you, Flamegrape, I’ve found that most LEXX fans are coming into fandom for the first time. I’ve tryped up a “Conventions 101” for friends that I’ve e-mailed and think I’ve even posted once on scifi.com when I realized I had to get down to the very basics of fandom. I’ve tried to educate folks about the wrongness of expecting an autograph for free. Some of these actors NEED to make up more than just their expenses for getting to the con and even if they are a megastar – like a Trek captain – why shouldn’t they be entitled to a slice of the autograph cash pie that’s being made off their names.
You’ve tried to explain. Now I think the best you can hope for is that this won’t damage reputations too badly and will serve as an excellent learning experience.
MM
Āæoopsy
Hi Fellow Lexxians,
All I can say about this is that we all should have a great ime at Dragon*Con, support the Lexx actors who’ve come a long way to see us fans & chat with 1 another; we should try to have fun & enjoy having them there, not make a mole out of a molehill. Brian, Ellen, Xenia, Patty & Louise are going to be at Dragon*Con for us Lexx fans, not because of Flame & his ego.
I’ve just chatted with Flamegrape this morning, & he told me he won’t be back; he’s had enough with Lexx & doesn’t want anything to do with it anymore; he’s even taken his web site off.
I’ll see you all at Dragon*Con as well as our special guests.Lexxians Unite,
Jhevz šIt looks like Flamegrape’s poll didn’t have the desired effect….
I disagree, I think it was a genuine attempt to open a discussion and solicit opinion from LEXX fandom.
Flame made his point and got his concerns off his chest …. in the Angst forum. I don’t think that it’s something that can be resolved in the discussion without finding out what the stars themselves think (or how they react at the convention).
My *angst* is that this happened at all. In retrospect, it would appear there was a communications breakdown in the early planning stages between involved and *concerned* parties.
I guess my only comment is that old adage “Pride goeth before a fall.”I hope all concerned/interested Lexxians have read freys recent posts on Dragon Con. All is well. ALL the Lexx cast are appearing as “invited guest stars”. They will ALL receive, and be included in, V.I.P. treatment from Dragon Con staff. They will all absolutely get the red carpet treatment from their attending fans.
The parties, and the advertising thereof, fall well within con policies and practices. They have the blessings of both hotels, and apparently of the Lexx stars as well. Mr. Lowe, their convention manager, has things well in hand. It looks like everyone can look forward to an enjoyable event! And The Russians are coming!!! š
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