[A -DM]

A-DM,
I appreciate your point-of-view & hope your brother comes back safe & sound; I do hope he’s not 1 of the POW’s caught in this aweful war. If you need to talk, just e-mail me or send me a private message.
I’ll tell you what I think should’ve happened if you please tell me what’ll happen after World War III (this war) is over & how are we going to liberate the Iraqi people after the war.
No one manipulted me or convinced me of my feelings, except me; these are my views & no one elses.

Thanks for your thoughts about my brother Jhevz, I know he’s ok, not sure where he’s based at the moment, I’ve been watching out for news of his regiment, but I don’t think he’s in the front line.
As for this being WW3, well it’s not a world war so it doesn’t apply, I don’t understand what you mean by liberating the Iraqi people after the war, when this war is over the Iraqi people will be liberated.
As for what happens after this war, who’s too say, other than the biggest threat since Hitler will have been removed, it may bring some stability, it may not. However, the fact that the US and UK forces going in means that we have not sat idly by while Saddam has the opportunity to stockpile weapons, I feel we all faced a bigger risk if we did nothing.
As Syria and Iran appear to be supplying Iraq with military hardware, I think it shows that Saddam can get hold of what he needs when needed, although it’s not as easy to get nuclear materials there still remains a danger that he might aquire it.
As for the view on ‘cowards’, I will admit that was a sweeping generalisation motivated by anger, but it does appear that large sections of the anti-war brigade are anti-americans just looking for an excuse to attack the US, some supporters of Saddam and his regime, muslims who believe it is an attack on their faith and political groups using this as a means to their ends, looking at it I see the minority being those who oppose war without having any allegiance to the groups above, so for me the majority groups are ‘cowards’, as they are using reasons of their own to oppose this action (perhaps with the exception of muslims), their interest is governed by reasons other than what they claim it to be, they don’t care that Saddam is a danger or that the Iraqi people suffer, their agenda’s have nothing to do with that.
So I don’t agree it is ‘evil’ to say that certain groups can be classed as ‘cowards’, war is a failure, but unfortunately so is diplomacy in this case.
I believe it is cowardly to simply walk away when your loved ones and country are threatened as would have ultimately been the case if Saddam had aquired weapons of mass destruction, it really is a case of it’s either ‘him or us’, I believe it’s cowardly to use the publics strong feelings as a vehicle to enhance your political standing or recognition, I believe it’s cowardly when you look to start a revolt and overthrow a government you dislike, there are many way’s too show cowardice, and for me there is many versions of it at work at the core of the anti-war brigade.
Cowardice is a strong term and shouldn’t be used lightly, which is why I don’t class anyone on this board a coward, they have fears, which we all have and their reasons for being against war are genuine and understandable, the cowards are the ones that may influence you into opposing war for reasons other than your own credible concerns.
But perhaps the biggest source of anger for me comes from the fact that those that lead and organise these demonstrations offer nothing, they don’t offer a solution, they don’t offer a compromise, they denounce war when they know there is no other choice, if they come come up with another way of taking out Saddam Hussein, then I will stop calling them ‘cowards’.
ADM
ADM

[A -DM]

Logan wrote:

Sorry ADM, I had no idea your brother was over there; that does put a new perspective on things. Sometimes when one is distanced from such events one can get rather coldly academic. BTW, I have admired the restraint of the British forces around Basra, and I do appreciate Blair’s push for meaningful U.N. involvement after the war.

Take care, and I wish your brother godspeed. May he return home quickly and safely.

Take care,

Logan

Thankyou Logan, for your words, I think people sometimes do need to distance themselves sometimes to get some perspective, and I don’t think there is ever a right or wrong in war, just lot’s of conflicting views.
I see people’s need for peace, I also would like to see peace prevail and it’s good as a whole that the world pursues it with such fervour, but I do think that the initial stages of war come as a shock too many, and this results in anger and bitterness.
But as time goes on we realise that maybe we were hasty in our opinons and then we take a step back and get that perspective.
My brother is looking at it in a remarkably casual way, but I guess the armed forces are trained to always look at things objectively. In a letter I received from him last week he told me what he faced, he apologised about the fact he couldn’t say too much (for obvious reasons), but suffice to say that a lot of what the press has reported isn’t all propaganda.
As brothers always do, we used to argue, but I pray he comes back because I find I’m actually missing those arguments.
But spare a thought for our friends in the US army, my brother tell’s me they’ve been great to ‘our boys’, he describes them as extremely friendly and generous, they are always ready to help out when my brothers attachment is short on provisions, which I think say’s a lot about the American GI’s.
Anyhoo, thanx again for your thoughts Logan.
ADM

[A -DM]

SadGeezer wrote:

A -DM wrote:

BTW, yes my previous log on name was Squish, but I couldn’t use that name anymore due to the amount of times that I’ve had to log on using different versions of that name, this was a direct result of the board failing so many times.
Only you could make it into a big deal for some bizzare and twisted reason, but then I expect no less from you.

I can fix that for you if you like!? I don’t think it was your fault that your login name got all screwy!

Just send me an email with your prefered handle and password and I’ll change it.

That goes for anyone else too by the way![/quote]

Heh, thanx Saddy, but there’s not much point as I expect I’ll be banned before this war is over!!!…but thanx anyway.

ADM

[A -DM]

FX wrote:

hello there, saddy beat me to the punch but i did want to point out as well that when you guys are having trouble logging on just email me and i will help you sort it out…:D

re this thread, i am glad that by and large the war is being discussed thoughtfully, even if we can’t help getting heated about it…i myself do not know yet how i feel as i cannot separate my own selfish feelings about being yanked out of my new job and home from my ongoing need for resolution regarding 9/11…i find myself extremely resentful over the fact that osama is still slithering around out there, along with several of his likeminded brethren but several people are dying in iraq…and i admit to being puzzled as to why iraq, when several followers of islam who commit terrorist acts are being given aid and succor in multiple countries, such as yemen, saudi arabia, even quatar, one of the more ‘progressive’ countries…it seems a hopeless fight indeed…but the fact remains that none of the antiwar people has yet voiced a plausible course of action against these people who feel it is their godgiven right to fly commercial airliners full of innocent people into skyscrapers, or immolate themselves along with a bus full of innocent people in the middle of a market place, or kill olympic athletes…the list goes on…you see, i too believe that each country and its people are entitled to create their own little slice of heaven or hell on this earth; so when i kept hearing about afghani women who were being beaten for showing their ankles in public, i shrugged and said, okay, that is the world they live in, the sons they have borne have helped create it, not my choice, not my problem…but when you come and spread your poison in my country, and kill my countrymen, then it is my business…so please, if any of you have any real ideas about how to stop that, i am all ears

Finally, someone get’s the point!!!
Thankyou FX, I think we’ve been around long enough to not be lulled into thinking as the anti-war people do, let’s just say the older you get the wiser you get!!!
But several posts later you managed to put the point across that I’ve been trying to do all along, (maybe coz I’m too long winded in my approach!).
So like FX said, all you anti-war brigadiers, stop whining how it’s all wrong and give us a solution to make it right.
And it’s nice to know that some of my American friends left in Saddy land know what I was trying to get at, but as usual FX you are a lot more eloquent in your approach than me.
ADM

[A -DM]

Logan wrote:

A-DM: I’m sorry to see that you didn’t heed Mary Beth’s message on bashing people. BTW, my post is intended to be constructive criticism. And while I do feel offended by much that you say, I won’t call for your banishment — nice guy that I am. (j/k) 😉

**If it makes you feel any better then go ahead and call for my banishment, I have no axe to grind with you, but should I leave under those circumstances I shall not concern myself with it, I believe that while most of you are of the opinion of being against the war, I have been a lone voice and if I should suffer the fate of being banned because you don’t want too hear what I have too say, then it will leave me with the conclusion that those who oppose one voice are the one’s with the problem.

A -DM wrote:

As for saying who’s a coward, I’ve never accused a single person on this board of that (well apart from you, mainly because I truly hate you), but it is directed at certain individuals within the anti-war brigade, but I certainly wouldn’t label anyone on this board in meeting that criteria (again aside from you).

Oh good, I’m glad to see that you weren’t talking specifically about any of us when you wrote, “The anti-war brigade, as far as I’m concerned are all misguided cowards” and when you wrote,

**Sure, but that’s for you decide, I will keep my opinion as to who I class as a coward to myself (except for Bonnee), I will not name name’s (again except for Bonnee), but I still do feel the anti-war brigade are cowards, if I aim that directly at you then you have the right to say so, but even if you should feel you belong to that group, I offer no apology…but under the instruction of Mary Beth I shall not call anyone else as such (only Bonnee and only then under provocation).

A -DM wrote:

why don’t you all leave and join Saddam and see how much more comfortable your lives will be then, oh no, can’t do that can you?, that would mean giving up your cosy protected lifestyles, while men and women in the armed forces give their lives not only to protect you, but also to liberate a country where they don’t enjoy the pampered lifestyle you enjoy…hypocritical cowards.”

Forgive me for thinking that that may have been directed specifically as an attack on us (those who are anti this war). But, I think I can assume that you have more than implied that we are “stupid”. Or was I wrong about that too, in which case, how stupid of me.

**In fact you are wrong, and just remember it was you that called yourself ‘stupid’, as again it’s not aimed at those who are anti-war, but those who are of the anti-war brigade, and those are the ones who march or have to be violent in their argument, but again if you feel wronged by it then you came to that conclusion, I am not going to apologise for it.
And if the point I made does upset you, then I guess you must be included in to that equation, if it doesn’t then you have no reason to feel upset.

(BTW, my father, a very intelligent man who was a Captain with the British Army during WW2, and was a Major with British military intelligence, whose brother was an RAF pilot killed during WW2, and whose father was an officer who was gassed during WW1, does not believe that the action is justified. Ah, and re. an earlier comment of yours, he is over 30).

**I really don’t care who your father is and what he’s done, I have a brother in Iraq who may just be spilling his guts to protect people like you, personally I’d say to him not too bother, but he’s doing what he believes in and I am doing the same.
And I stand by the viewpoint that a large majority of the anti-war brigade is comprised of students, and whenever there is a demonstration about anything, you can bet it will involve students for some bizzare reason.

You told us before, “forget your prejudices and your hatred,” good advice, I suggest you do the same when it comes to any of the board members. And remember, judge not lest ye be judged. I’m sure I’ll be judged over the validity of this post later.

**I don’t know half the people here and I do not judge them on the way they live their lives, I do question their reasoning for their anti-war stance, but that’s not passing judgement.
I do not care on whether you judge me or not because I know you are not qualified to do so, the biggest problem with my posting in that no one is ever going too listen or heed what I have to say because i’m in the minority, but I know I will have the satisfaction of knowing that when this war ends the things that Bush/Blair are supposedly have done or will do will not have happened, because at the end of the day it is all rhetoric and what you and other fear may happen.
The fears mount up, new accusations are thrown without any basis in fact, and it’s all done to try to make what the anti-war brigade seem right, yet when this war ends people will go back to their lives and forget this ever happened, many protest because once in a while it’s good to get behind a cause, many do it for more devious reasons, and some do it because they want to fit with everyone else, well I’m of my own mind and I don’t follow the crowd, I see one threat and one danger…Saddam Hussein, I don’t wish to see beyond that, because if I do it will make this war seem wrong, and that’s the way I see you and other protestors, you can’t see that regardless of all other reasons, one thing will be acheived and it’s the one thing I have interest in, I don’t care what you ‘think’ Bush and Blair have done, I know that what is said about them is unproven and just speculation, nothing that has been said about them is anything other than a personal belief, I know can feel happy that what I know of Saddam in not propaganda and I am not motivated by rumours and speculation, he is a bona fida threat to my life and those I care about, and if that means I upset people to get that point across then so be it.

A -DM wrote:

You accuse Bush of being a war criminal. why, because you don’t have the stomach for war?, and he has the uneviable task of sending his countrymen to their possible deaths.
You sit at home in comfort while the troops risk their lives to support both their country and President, what makes you right and them wrong?
And you can’t accuse Bush or Blair of being war criminals for undertaking an action that needs to be taken, war criminals by law are those who break the rules of engagement and ignore the Geneva convention, the fact is, is that they are war criminals in you’re mind because you don’t agree with their stance, when in reality you have no justification for that accusation.

BTW, I never accused Bush of being a war criminal, nor did anybody else in this thread to my knowledge (I may have missed it), I merely said, somewhat waggishly I might add, that it would be nice if he could be tried as a war criminal,
(**How can you say you don’t accuse him of being a war criminal but wish to to have him tried as a war criminal, so an innocent man should be tried then?)
but he, unlike in Britain, opposed signing on to the International Criminal Court — which is yet another example of how the US admin. does not support the strengthening of international law, nor the UN etc. And, BTW, the leaders can be held responsible, as war criminals, for the actions that their troupes take, and the directives they give. Oh, and only a real idiot would ever “accuse Bush or Blair of being war criminals for undertaking an action that needs to be taken,” especially considering that it is highly debatable (we are debating it, aren’t we?) if the actions they have taken, and are taking, were the best approach. And even if they just made an honest mistake, that in and off itself would most probably not justify branding them as war criminals.

**The International war crimes court is open to abuse, there are many in Europe who hate America so much that they would need little excuse to find Americans guilty of war crimes, I would feel the same when the politicians in Brussels are so corrupt, Bush does not trust Europe and I don’t blame him.
And war criminals are usually denoted by the actions they take in war, but as Bush and Blair cannot guarantee the safety of civilians (especially as Iraqi militia shield themselves behind innocent people), any casualties caused by allied troops who are not actively seeking to harm Iraqi people must be deemed as the dangers of war, it’s harsh, but unfortunately nothing in war can be guranteed or predicted.
Bush and Blair have gone too great lengths to ensure the loss of civilian life is kept to a minimum, this includes no bombing of strategic targets where non-coms are housed, the refrain shown by US and Uk forces when the enemy uses it’s own civilians to protect themselves, in fact the US and UK are fighting a war with one arm tied behind their backs, as this is a direct result of Bush and Blair trying to be humanitarian in their approach to the war, hardly the actions of war criminals are they?
Unless you believe that they should be tried for having the guts to take on a man who will kill using the heinous weapons devised, and whatever you may believe you can’t be tried for starting a war, it’s how you behave in it that defines whether you constitute being a war criminal, but watch closely on T.V, watch the Iraqi’s that humiliate the families of dead soldiers to understand what a true war criminal is like.

One more point, what makes you so absolutely sure that you’re right, when most of the world, seemingly, thinks you’re wrong? And I’ve heard very few of the intelligentsia (or people who practise international law) who believe that the war is justified or support the war, but things may be different where you are.

**The war according to some laws may be incorrect, but this does not apply to international law, the reason most people are upset and declare that it is, is that the US and UK have used an old edict from the gulf war and have essentially expanded on it too claim the right to war, and the fact is that they are right, yet some people see it as a very poor way of getting the right to go too war.
You’re seeing what you want to see, in the UK and US the war is being favoured, and contrary to their claims the majority do not support the anti-war brigade. The rest of the world does not neccessarily follow the anti-war brigade, thousands of demonstrators don’t make the voice of one country, the only reason you see it that way is because naturally the media have to report these demonstrations, and they are usually reported from countries that are Anti-American or the population is comprised largely of muslims, I think it’s safe to say they don’t support terrorism, but they don’t have any love for America, in reality most of what you see is not about the anger of war, but the anger of America’s involvement in it.
I feel I’m right because I won’t allow anything but the death of Saddam Hussein to distract my belief in this war, I support America and the UK for this reason, it’s selfish but I have no care for the Iraqi people or their oil, I do have an interest in self-preservation and of those I care for and to a certain degree the continuation of the world, we have the same goals but it’s how we go about it is where our differences lie, you have to ask yourself that if America (with possibly the only military resources to take on such an action) did not take out Saddam, then who would???, every time I ask this question it either never get’s answered or something else it used to answer it, so I ask it again…do you really think that Saddam would stop building weapons if left alone???, and the other question that get’s avoided ‘Give me another viable way to rid the world of Saddam’, these questions never get answered, which is why I can say my resolve and reasoning is stronger than that of those who oppose war.
And that’s what it boils down to, what option has been offered by the anti-war brigade?…the answer, none whatsoever, why?, because they don’t have one?

Sure Saddam has a brutal regime, and the world would gain by having such a regime removed from power, but it is the pre-emptive nature of this strike (as well as other concerns) based on numerous assumptions (rather like your posts I might add) that has many people scared — the idea that ‘we’ have the sovereign right to attack ‘them’ because if ‘we’ don’t ‘they’ might attack ‘us’, for instance.

**So you are honestly trying to say that Saddam not using a nuclear, biological or chemical weapon against us is an assumption?, if Saddam is quite happy to attack people in his own country then what makes you think he won’t you?, he attacks based on religion, he hates the Shia and the Kurds, it’s only the Sunni muslims that get a good deal in his regime.
But you suggest that we have no right to attack when it is done too protect, and by that again we should leave Saddam alone in the hope that he will leave us alone, so all the T.V interviews that he has done where America is classed as infidels is just him being friendly then, are you that naive too think that when Al’Qaida comes knocking on his door looking for weapons he’s going to turn them away saying ‘ no, I will not help you kill my infidel friends in America’.
And speaking of America, I must I’m shocked by the amount of Americans who are this board who haven’t been behind me, think about it, it’s people like me in the UK that keeps our countries bond so close, many of the people here know I have supported the US in bad times, mainly because I believed that we had common ideals, yet all that counts for nothing now, as these same people are ready to turn away from there country, so it makes me wonder why I should believe in your country when it seems obvious you do not, yet I, like Tony Blair believe like most Americans to be genuine and honest, and despite this I still believe in America.
BTW get it right will you, we’re not attacking a them we are attacking a few dangerous individuals that are headed by Saddam, it’s not about aimlessly killing Iraqi’s, it’s about our freedom as well as their’s, if it does backfire then at least we can say we tried to do something about it, instead of just demonstrating and offering no solutions.

The coercive and threatening tactics (as well as the bribery) of the US to get other countries on side hasn’t exactly won the confidence of people either. They say they want to bring democracy to Iraq, they speak up for their sovereign rights, but do we have any indication that they respect other’s sovereignty (Canada has been threatened economically because of our lack of support), and do we see them trying to build a more democratic, fairer world-community, including the UN? They have stated that they have the right to protect their interests abroad, and it’s clear that they will do this by any means possible, despite the fact that it often impinges on other’s rights. But that is another issue for another day…

You’re right it is a issue for another day, America has got a bad track record, but fundamentally it has got it’s head screwed on right and especially where Saddam Hussein is concerned.
Every country in the world has done things it should be thoroughly ashamed of, the fact America is so wealthy and large makes it the easiest target, and that Europe chooses to see America as an empire of arrogance and greed, yet the same could be said of them.
People forget that America has come to the world’s rescue twice before and they are never thanked for it, yes America intervened because it served their own interests, but America is for Americans and they have the right too protect themselves as we would do the same, we should regardless of what reasons they have be extremely grateful they did intervene, because one day that country may decide it is fed up with helping an ungrateful ally like the French, very few generations have passed since France was liberated by the US and UK, yet here we are again with us hating each other as we used to.
Point the finger at the US all you like, there are no different to any other country in past misdeeds, I used to hate America for the same reasons many do today, yes they appear flash and loud, and it sometimes does appear they think they rule the roost, this all comes from the wealth and the glamour that is naturally American, people wither despise it or are jealous of it. But if you peel all that away you get a very insecure country, one that knows everyone else is looking on at them in envy, but also a country that has pride beyond belief and the greatest desire to do good, I have since realised that America is a country that is geared up to fight injustice and persecution, but like every country once in a while comes along a leader who puts his countries resolve to the test, one like Nixon who has other ideas on how to be President…but again this happens in every country.
Fact is, is that America knows that is on top of the wanted list of
international terrorism, that’s not one person it’s a whole country on that wanted list, and obviously America is looking to protect itself, especially when the terrorists have the gun, and all they need are the bullets, who do think is will ready and willing to give them those bullets???, and when they’ve shot America enough times do you think they will stop shooting???

Another pint I wish to make, I can see some rather compelling arguments coming from both sides (not really in this thread though ;)), but upon weighing up the arguments from a standpoint of what I consider to be the issues of paramount impotance, we all have inherent biases, I fall most assuredly on the anti this war side.

BTW, you have the right to post here as much as you like A-DM, but I do feel that this thread is becoming a little overly dominated by you (in word count anyway), but since there doesn’t seem to be much of a pro-war response, I suppose you’re just trying to even things out with your incessant barrage.

**You may not have noticed, but I am on my own here, but I feel that’s because I’m not a stereotypical Sci-fi fan, truth be told I have a pssing interest in it and this board is just another place to see what other’s think about.
The only reason it seems to be dominated by me is because I stand for what I believe, I don’t care how long it takes to argue my point so long as I do argue it, and as my friends and my loved ones lives could one day be put at risk by ill-informed people, I will fight tooth and nail to make that point made, like I said my brother is in Iraq at this very moment, fighting for you and me, and I’ll be damned before I don’t fight for what he and I believes in.

BTW, this is aimed at no one in particular ;), but it’s something to bear in mind when in a heated debate and “emotions run high”: One can be on the offensive without being offensive (hope this post does not offend any sensitive sensibilities).[/quote]

**FYI, it is virtaully impossible to have a discussion when it is so close to someone’s heart as it is to mine and not end up offending someone for it, although it is not my intention I will still say that until this war is over I will view those who post unfactual anti-war rhetoric with the disdain is deserves.
I only want two things too come out of this war, god willing, one is for the job on Saddam to be done, and the other for my brother to come back safely…anything beyond that i have no interest in, so spare your anti-americanism and any other political nonsense you have to say, to me it’s not as important as those two things.
ADM

[A -DM]

I think someone should send in the troops to liberate Squish – I mean, ADM – from the tyranny of his own preconceptions and predujices.

**I would hardly call them preconceptions, I think most of us know what a troublesome conception we know you to be, as for predujices, yep, you could say that, I have a very strong predujice against you and for good reason, hence the reason you were banned in the first place.

It never ceases to amaze me what you think you understand – you’re so convinced of the tenability of your own convictions that anyone who might disagree with you is instinctivelly labelled a bad character (or of bad character, be it stupid, lazy or cowardly, etc).

**No just you, you have demonstrated so often in the past with the same rubbish you come up with as above, you use the same tact everytime, it has become predictable and formulaic.
And of course I’m convinced by my own convictions, why would I post if I wasn’t?, and saying that instinct is responsible for my view of you is just laughable, I’ve had plenty of time to realise what you are like with all the problems you last caused on the board, but you’d think that the ban would’ve made you realise that you weren’t wanted, now either you’re incredibly stupid or it’s the actions of a typical troll…I’d say the latter.
As for saying who’s a coward, I’ve never accused a single person on this board of that (well apart from you, mainly because I truly hate you), but it is directed at certain individuals within the anti-war brigade, but I certainly wouldn’t label anyone on this board in meeting that criteria (again aside from you).
No doubt you are relishing you’re new found freedom on this board and are enjoying the fact there are new people around who don’t remember your pre-banning exploits, but there are still a lot of us that do.

You could actually get a gig working in Sadaam’s ministry of propaganda – you ‘re so threatened by alternate viewpoints that you’ll do whatever you can to invalidate and interpret away the implications or consequences of your own superior ‘thinking’. :roll:[/quote]

**If by that you mean me posting my thoughts in a legitimate post, then thankyou for claiming it is ‘superior’ thinking, I personally would not have claimed as much, but thankyou nonetheless for the compliment.
And yes I will attempt to get people to see that there is another valid argument against those who think the war is wrong.
As for propaganda, well you really do live in your own world don’t you, what possible reason do I have to deceive or lie to anyone?, because for the best part that is what propaganda is, and please tell me what consequences or implications my thinking might have?, aside from receiving your mindless posts in return I cannot see any other consequence, or perhaps there is another consequence, that some people might not be so quick to turn against this war when given the fact that Saddam is a threat that deserves as much.
And if I was ‘threatened’ as you say, then I would have thought I would have lost my objectivity and conviction in the face of posts who argue against my views, as that is not the case I will continue too post whilst not feeling threatened. And while I’m not feeling threatened I will say again that people like you are the threat from within, you play people Bonnee, to suit your own ends, you’ve have done so in the past and will do so again, we’ve had many people on this board who have tried to wreck it’s spirit and failed, you are the only one that has ever come close, and you do it in a very clever but very devious way, which is why I say you are the type to incite violence in others if you were engaged in demonstration, cold, calculating and cruel is what I would choose as words to sum you up.
ADM
BTW, yes my previous log on name was Squish, but I couldn’t use that name anymore due to the amount of times that I’ve had to log on using different versions of that name, this was a direct result of the board failing so many times.
Only you could make it into a big deal for some bizzare and twisted reason, but then I expect no less from you.

[A -DM]

Jhevz, I really appreciate your sentiment and your caring in these circumstances, but in spite of this you have said there is another way too rid the world of Saddam, well I’d like to know what it is.
Unfortunately, for all the anti-war talk I’ve still yet to hear another viable solution to the taking Saddam out problem, all I’m hearing is anti-Bush and anti-Blair and that’s why I feel that the people who argue against war miss the point entirely, it’s not about them, it’s about Saddam.
With Bonnee turning around my post the way he did, it appears that he is pro-Saddam, unfortunately all I can do is attempt to ignore people as evil and malicious as Saddam himself, the other posters here have shown that even though they do not trust Bush, they do not support the actions of Saddam, which is a credit to you, however for every ten people like you, there is a character like Bonnee who manipulates you and stirs your emotions, and he’ll claim to be just like you when his real agenda is not only having a hatred for Bush/Blair, but also showing support to Saddam. Most of these characters will attempt to hide this from you, and those who openly admit it like Bonnee will pretend to be your friends whilst all the while stirring your emotions to the point of sheer anger and perhaps violence, these are the same people who are at the heart of violent demonstrations and hooliganism, they are they simply there to get you too react while they cower in the shadows, whilst the people they have caused too get violent are arrested.
Like I said before Jhevz, emotions run high during this time, and I would never advocate war if there was another way, there simply isn’t, we simply didn’t have the luxury of diplomacy or the actions of a group of UN inspectors who would never have been to able to achieve what they set out to do.
Whatever the reason for a quick solution, which hopefully war will bring about, we shouldn’t forget that Saddam is the target, the sole reason all this has happened, forget the oil, forget the french, forget the mistrust and hatred of Bush or Blair, the terror and death that man can inflict on those around us is truly terrifying, and that over shadows any other concerns you may have.

Because when this war is long over you will still get the same people who hate Bush/Blair, except they would’ve have found a new reason to do so. But I tell you that even though many think Bush is the villain, he won’t be out to gas you, tell you who too support or kill your loved ones because they don’t fight in his name, and I doubt very much he will seek too take on another conflict in his term as President, unless it again becomes apparent that another madman like Saddam is threatening us, for all his wrongs, he is not Saddam Hussein, because if he were you would’ve been dead long before you got to post anything on this board that was negative, remember you still live in a democracy, you are still a million miles away from what the Iraqi people live under, you do not live under tyranny, even though people like Bonnee would have you believe so.
ADM

[A -DM]

One reason and one reason alone, there is no other choice left, why does nobody understand this concept, it’s comes down to him or us it’s as simple as that, would you rather be in a situation where our troops take on Saddam, but at the same time show compassion and humanity to the Iraqi people, a situation where it is not only about taking a dictator but also about freeing the oppressed Iraqi people?
Or would you prefer that those you care about die a senseless death at the hands of one man you never met?, one man who can kill without remorse or caring?, because if you truly believe Saddam would not attempt to wipe you and your’s out, then you do not understand the danger we all face.
I think after this week you have got all you need to know about the danger he poses, the parading of non-coms, battered and humiliated in front of T.V cameras. The execution of two soldiers in cold blood, not given the chance to be recognised as POW’s, just shot when it was clear they would’ve had no chance but to give themselves up. The helicopter pilots that although have not been treated as badly as the maintenance crew were like them forced into facing a camera. The cowards who use civilians to hide behind while shooting at soldiers who cannot shoot back, the one’s that smile and laugh while cameras parade the dead bodies of Americans and add insult by pulling their trousers down. All of these atrocities flout the laws that govern war, the law that is meant to bring a civilised approach to this war….The Geneva Convention, the fact that the Saddam has not done anything to prevent this proves just how dangerous he is, yet even after all this we will still have those who will doubt why this action is necessary.
I say again that Saddam’s world has nothing in common with ours, our laws of decency and civilised behaviour have no place in Iraq, the atrocities you are seeing is what life is like in Saddam’s world, so for all those who say ‘this war is wrong’ or feel that war was never necessary and their arguments and ideals would solve the problem, does it not seem obvious that you’re pleas for peace would never have been entertained by Saddam, the west and Saddam are too far removed in terms of culture and democracy.
Let’s pretend war was not an option, well I would have said that Saddam would eventually threaten Kuwait again only this time armed with weapons of mass destruction, or he would supply terrorists with these weapons, and all the time spent searcing for the weapons allowed him to clear his decks by arranging deals that would allow him clear the weapons out by selling them to terrorists.

[A -DM]

Flamegrape wrote:

A -DM wrote:

I thought the ***** ***** that goes by the name of Bonnee was banned…

He was. But his ban is obviously lifted. However, I gave him a warning in another thread. I told him, “aut disce aut discede,” which means, “either learn or leave.” He subsequently responded with latin nonsense. I’m not sure if it remains to be seen whether or not he harkened to my word.[/quote]

No offence Flame, but I would’ve thought it would be within your powers to get rid of this contant nuisance, we all know what Bonnee’s like and the trouble he’s caused in the past, so why is neccessary too allow him to keep posting his troll posts, weren’t we sufficiently fed up with him the first time around???
I know it’s not Saddy’ policy to have a banning regime going on, but Bonnee was obviously banned for good reason the last time he spouted his c**p, so I can’t understand the change of heart, unless of course Saddy is unable to ban him through him finding a way to continue his posting regardless of the original ban.
And as for asking Bonnee to learn, not a chance, we’ve got more chance of Saddam being godfather to one of Bush’s grandchildren, besides I would have thought it painfully obvious that Bonnee has his own set of rules regarding his behaviour, and that he chooses to ignore any other’s, oddly enough I thought we’d all ‘learnt’ that after his last barrage of trolling, especially after his went out of his way to upset just about every moderator on the board, I’m sorry Saddy, but you should have stuck by your guns on this one.
ADM

[A -DM]

I thought the ***** ***** that goes by the name of Bonnee was banned, nice to see you haven’t changed, you’re still an *****.
Play you’re little games Bonnee, because the ******* I spoke of definitely include you, so go ahead and change my posts if you wish, just confirms what we all knew before…you’re a ******** *****.
BTW, looks like the numbers in the anti-war brigade are dwindling as people come to their senses and no longer wish to listen to ******** ****** like ******** Bonnee, the polls are beginning to reflect this.

BTW, Saddy, even though you may not agree with my standing in regards to this conflict, I do apologise for the heavy handedness in what I have said, but this is an emotional time for all of us and feelings run high, and I do appreciate other people’s opinions even though I don’t understand them. But I would say that I’m surprised you let the constant nuisance that is Bonnee back on this board, was he not banned?, and if so why is he back?, we were all sick to death of him the last time he paid us a visit, so please kick him out before he get’s back to his old tricks.
ADM

ADM as i have stated before we will not allow bashing of another member of this BB. i have edited the name calling in your post, even though they weren’t cuss words, because of that reason. if you would like to discuss this further you can email or PM me.
mary beth

[A -DM]

The above post again goes too show just how those who oppose war will go too great lengths to avoid the issue at hand, and that is taking a very dangerous threat out of the equation, all I have seen from the anti-war brigade is rhetoric and speculation, they are forever looking for ways too add more doubt to those that sit on the fence, all of this stuff doesn’t distract me, because I know it is all being used as a weapon against Bush and Blair, anything that can dredged up about past misdeeds is used, anything from confirmed anti-war journalism is used.
All of this can come to a head when this war is over, now is not the time, the war has started and will finish with the removal of a threat we should all fear.
Whatever the reasoning you find comfortable to avoid war, whatever supposed logic you wish too apply in putting Bush in the same light as Saddam, you can never compare this ‘current’ coalition of Bush and Blair as being anything as dangerous as Saddam.
Again, the UN inspectors time was up, the top military brass knew that the inspectors could spend a helluva long time searching for these weapons, finding bits here and there, but missing the jackpot because Saddam is far too clever to allow all he has planned for slip away, and while the inspections had continued he could’ve have been negotiating with terrorists or rogue states to obtain weapons grade plutonium or uranium, and doing so with a lot more urgency than before as he would have known that the patience of the UN would have grown thin, they know the weapons exist, , many were unaccounted for and eventually they would’ve had to concede that the inspection team could not have covered enough ground in sufficient time, and the end result would’ve been the same…war.
You who oppose war can continue finding as much dirt as you can on Bush and Blair to confirm your belief’s, I personally am not interested in your own little personal grudges, all I’m concerned about is taking care of Saddam.
After all said and done the American government has a bad past and I’m sure for many reasons it’s likely too continue, but this is all secondary to the reason we are at war.
The fact is, is that no matter how hard you moan you won’t change the government of your country be it the UK or the US, you don’t have too respect their decisions, but you will have to live with them, so get over it, and look at the big picture…a threat to the world is about to be extinguished and that is enough for me, and should be for you.
ADM

[A -DM]

How long has Bush in power?, and how long does it take his opponents to accuse him of everything under the sun?, is it to be that every successive President must take the blame for the mistakes of the past?
If Bush and Blair are war criminals for ridding the world of it’s most dangerous threat then I must also be a war criminal for supporting their action, and so must a lot of other people.
If the choice was between Bush and Saddam running you’re country are you Bush haters trying to tell me that Saddam is preferable?, until Bush has done what you accuse him of, then I, like many others will put it down too mindless hatred.
I admit I don’t know Bush as well not being an American, but I do know and trust Blair.
You accuse Bush of being a war criminal. why, because you don’t have the stomach for war?, and he has the uneviable task of sending his countrymen to their possible deaths.
You sit at home in comfort while the troops risk their lives to support both their country and President, what makes you right and them wrong?
And you can’t accuse Bush or Blair of being war criminals for undertaking an action that needs to be taken, war criminals by law are those who break the rules of engagement and ignore the Geneva convention, the fact is, is that they are war criminals in you’re mind because you don’t agree with their stance, when in reality you have no justification for that accusation.
The same goes for the anti-war brigade, oh yeah it’s easy too criticize when you don’t have to get your hands dirty, and say these things knowing perfectly well you live in a democratic world that wouldn’t shoot you dead for uttering such words, yet the person that you protesting against is all that stands between you and a tyrant that would happily kill you and your family.
If these people want too protect Saddam and maintain peace why don’t you all leave and join Saddam and see how much more comfortable your lives will be then, oh no, can’t do that can you?, that would mean giving up your cosy protected lifestyles, while men and women in the armed forces give their lives not only to protect you, but also to liberate a country where they don’t enjoy the pampered lifestyle you enjoy…hypocritical cowards.
Everyone’s for peace, but it always comes with a price, and war is that price, no matter how much the anti-war brigade rant and rave they do not offer a better solution, and if their demonstrations were ever successful, all that would have happened is that they would have brought Saddam more time to build his weapons and continue too deceive the world.
Like I said before, most of the voices of resentment come from students, how old were these students 12 years ago, about 6-10 years of age, too young to remember what a threat Saddam posed back then, thank god these people are ignored, because they are idealistic and unrealistic and simply do not know of what they speak, most of all they join in with radicals because those at Uni or college do the same, you see it with each successive generation of teens and it will never change, wait to you get to 30 and I guarantee your views on the world will be very different.
ADM

[A -DM]

”The wrote:

First, off, let’s get one thing straight: I hate Saddam. Personally, I say we take that worthless B^$%^rd to the nearest tree and hang him.

However, I am also a Muslim, and in my Koran for one, it says that we are all descended from Adam and Hawa (Eve), and as a result, it makes both the Iraqis who are being killed, the Allied troops dying, hell, any human being my family. Distant ones yes, but family nonetheless. I am all for Saddam’s being deposed, but if it is through any way that punishes my family with death, then I cannot support it, no matter how noble it may seem. The ends never jusify the means, and as such I cannot support the war, no matter how much I want to. Why can’t the CIA just send over some agents for a ‘wet job’? Is that somehow less morally acceptable than sending hordes of people to kill other hordes of people with the same purpose in mind?

Besides, at the last count, the ratio of Israelis to Palestinians killed was 9:2. Disarmament, anyone? 🙁

Like many western people, I hope that the Islamic faith never reaches the conclusion that this is an attack on their religion, we have the same fears and the same wish to preserve human life, but some in the muslim community do not see it that way.
While you say that the Koran preaches that those being killed are our family, and the Koran, like the bible tells us that much of what we do today is not acceptable. Yet the nagging difference is that a small minority of muslims kill the family you speak of, and too add to this insult they choose to call it Jihad, surely this is abhorrent to a large majority of muslims, that the Koran can be used effectively as a propaganda weapon against it’s enemies, and on a larger scale we see many muslim countries with strong anti-american fervour in support of these fanatics, how can a book of peace lead them to follow this path?
I am not a believer of any god, which I feel puts me in a kind of neutral position when Islam and Christianity clash, yet all I see is a faith that is manipulated by extremists, they tell or quote of a passage from the Koran to reinforce what they do, and some without question will see the Koran as sending the message that the terrorists have put out as being just.
This is not an attack on Islam in any way, and for the best part it’s followers are peace loving, yet equally there is a large number that are cajoled in hating the US when told that their God demands it, in this instance religion is being used to power war and terror.
I guess what I’m saying is that it’s a two way street, the terrorists strike and hit innocent people hard, yet when we retaliate it is seen as an attack on the Muslim faith, if it were ever possible religion should stay out of wars.
Does it not shock you when a mass murderer goes live on T.V and effectively announces that his gripe against mankind is the will of God?, he is the biggest culprit of using the muslim faith to serve his own ends, sadly, for the best part he is successful in rallying muslims with his messages, but surely no true muslim can support a man who uses the Koran as a propaganda weapon.
ADM

[A -DM]

”fluffy wrote:

Thx for your thinking out your last post ADM. I’m for this war, as long as it’s done for the right reasons and intentions. Sorry, but I don’t think the moral high ground “we’re better than them” etc won’t work with me- if you try that, it can be pointed out that every country in the world has committed it’s share of atrocities at one time or other.

**I don’t believe we are any better morally than the Iraqi people, I do know we are morally correct when compared too the Iraqi regime.
The accusations being levelled America of helping Iraq at one time or another are unfair, when you consider that almost every power
in the western world has assisted Iraq at some stage, France, Germany, UK, America all have too accept blame for the position we find ourselves in now.

Going in to help the Kurds is not a reason that’ll wash with me- Saddam does not consider the Kurds as Iraqi in the same way that neither Iran or Turkey, both allies in the first gulf war and tentative ones in the second, consider their kurdish people Iranian or Turkish. In the first gulf war American bombers were not allowed to fly raiding missions at certain times because Turkey were running bombing raids on their own Kurdish minority. It is not justifiable to any extent but at the same time no-one in Iraq considers them Iraqi, one of many examples of racial prejudice throughout the world. If all this was ignored in the 1st war, how can it be a validation for a second? The motives for this war will most likely not be revealed in the near future, and we can only hope that the intentions of our leaders are noble ones.

**Not so much going too help the kurds is the issue, it’s what has been tested on them that is, the use of banned weapons is a clear violation of international law, it’s a shame that the press choose to highlight the plight of the kurds as propaganda, but it does show that this man is quite willing too kill using these weapons, that alone is a clear indication of why this man needs to be removed.

Just because France doesn’t agree with the Coalition’s way of doing things doesn’t automatically make them cowards. If you feel someone gets it wrong you don’t roll over and agree with them – ok I’d say it was rash of them to threaten to veto any descision without hearing it out first, but still France, Germany and Russia are simply doing what they feel is right from their perspective. We do not know what evidence is out there, and whether the coalition or the french did the right thing regarding it- how can we as the public interpret it if we haven’t seen it. If we can’t interpret it, who are we to judge and subsequently ostracize? I guess it’ll be for the historians to debate when the evidence is revealed

This still brings me back to the point for which my opinion is based, I am not interested in the feelings France has towards the US, whatever the reason all of us have to recognise that sooner or later Saddam Hussein is a timebomb waiting to go off, I can’t imagine that anyone is any doubt as to whether Saddam has the guile to attack whomever he chooses should he obtain weapons of mass destruction or pass them on to someone who is willing to do it for him.
For this reason alone Saddam needs to be taken to task no matter what the cost, and that is what it boils down to…the cost, well the cost is significantly reduced by the action taken now, I cannot see a solution that would allow us to live in peace whilst Saddam is in power and the longer he is left the more dangerous the threat.
France has failed to recognise this threat, and by vetoing anything that goes before the UN they have effectively endangered mankind, the way I see it is that if we didn’t act now would we regret it if we hadn’t later on, no one knows the answer to that, but I think most people have led themselves to believe that if Saddam is left alone he won’t harm us, that is wishful thinking. Yes it could turn bad by taking this action, but equally it could still turn bad if we did nothing, I would rather we died trying than die knowing we could have done something about it or at least tried too.
Whichever path you take will result in trouble somewhere down the line, we are on a dangerous path too oblivion, we cannot remove every threat, one will always pop up somewhere, but at least we can attempt to delay what may be inevitable and it may buy us some more time it may not, but again at least we tried, unfortunately Saddam has learned to live with sanctions, embago’s and restrictions, are diplomacy is wasted on him, our use of inspections just buy him more time, but the use of physical force brings the curtain down on him and buys the world a little more breathing space, and perhaps we can look to avoid such confrontation by arresting it before it get’s too the stage that Saddam has reached…a madman on the verge of the power of nuclear destruction.

Another reason is political- if we cajole and threaten, and don’t do anything, we’ll be seen as paper tigers and will be ignored the next
time we need to send a warning

**Exactly, nothing but death will stop Saddam, words are meaningless now and the message that is now sent to other would be madmen is that we will try too talk our way out of it, and the use of force will be less and less likely given the trouble that is caused because of it.
I imagine that the US and UK will find it nigh on impossible to tackle a threat like Saddam in the future, there will come a time when force will no longer be an option and when that time comes we will realise how much of a mistake we have made.
We still don’t live in a world where peace can flourish, we are in the 21st century yet wars as devastating as WW1 and WW2 will still happen, in fact we have not changed as a species, if anything we are more likely to take up arms than ever before, mainly because of the old sins of greed and jealousy.
We can’t rely on everyone in the world to show the restraint to not harm others no matter what the provocation, and the countries that wish for a better future cannot force their will on those who do wish to harm others, it is hoped that these countries will evolve to go beyond their hatred of others, but it is still a long, long way off, and until this planet can reach that goal then people like Saddam will always exist, and the fight to protect what we do have will never end.
ADM

[A -DM]

”Bekka” wrote:

Im actually offened that you would acuse anti-war protesters of being cowards and suporting Sadam

**What you don’t seem to understand is that these rallies are the perfect opportunities for extremists, fundamentalists, Anti-Americans and supporters of communism to join in, these people are using this as an excuse to air their views.
There is a large element of Pro-Saddam supporters whether you choose to believe it or not, perhaps the cowards does not apply too all, but it does too many.

i didnt protest myself but i dont suport the war at all. I think sadam should/must die but this is the wrong way to go about it.

**And how do you propose we do that?, if it was a simple case of special forces going in and assassinating Saddam don’t think they would’ve have done it already?
There is no chance of anyone close to him taking him out, he only allows those who have been vetted or family around him, no one is daring enough to take a shot at him, not only for fear of what might happen to them but also their families.

Im sure there have been assasination atempts before but it was still a vable option.

**Not it’s not, I’m sorry, but that really is wishful thinking, he has had years to ensure that an assassin could not get near him, and US intelligence knows this only too well, as you have said yourself he goes too great length’s to ensure his personal safety, employing numerous lookalikes and is likely never to actually make public appearances.

there is no way that the bombings will help matters, if sadam hasent fled the country long before now he will have once the bombing started.

**That’s not true, this operation is called ‘Operation Iraqi Freedom’ for the sole reason of liberating the Iraqi people of Saddam, whether we get him or not is secondary to ensuring the freedom of the Iraqi people.
The bombing is meant to take out strategic targets and Republican Guard to make sure that when Allied troops enter Baghdad a firefight does not ensue that will cost the lives of many Allied troops.
It is more likely that Saddam will have his escape route cut, but there is still every chance he can escape, but the whole point is that he will no longer have the power to threaten the world as he currently has now.
As for what happens after (i.e America’s supposed interest in Iraq oil) remains to be seen, I prefer to reserve judgement on that until the war is over, but it is highly unlikely that the US and the UK would be so blatantly obvious and upset the likes of Russia and China.

you have to remeber that this guy has at least 9 bodydoubles (he claims that there not alowed to talk but do you trust him)

**Huh???

even if sadam is killed in the war whats to stop his suporters and family using a bodydouble and staying hes alive and keeping power. We would have to kill everyone that has worked for hussains government in anyway, all his family and anyone that looks like him to be compeatley certain he is dead and that iraq can be converted to our ways.

**He won’t keep power even if he is alive, the whole Iraqi regime is too be ousted when the war is won, I can’t see the US allowing Saddam to remain can you!?!
And no one is going to kill anyone, if Saddam is caught alive he will face a war tribunal as will his sons and others of the Iraqi high command…although it’s a bonus if he is killed during the war, although it is more likely he will go into exile.
And Iraq is not going to be converted to our ways, they will have a choice to elect who they choose without fear of being murdered for opposing Saddam, this will be the only change to Iraq, if too much change was instituted then the US risk a volatile response from other Arab states.

The war will not work because there are to many obstcals and when we give up we will go back to being hated by everyone around the world for all the inocent civilan deaths.

**The war will work as the obstacles to be removed are Saddam and his cronies, peace and stability would eventually return to Iraq.
Although the long term effects of the Allied action is likely to make the Arab world hate the US even more, yet that is something that will not change regardless of the action taken in Iraq.
The US and the UK won’t give up as they have the superior firepower, the only danger posed is that the Iraqi people themselves do not wish for liberation, but it widely conceived that the majority wish to be rid of Saddam, there will be no doubt that small pockets of resistance will remain, but once a new government has been installed the country should become more stable.
As for civilian deaths, well in war it’s unavoidable, but it doesn’t help when the enemy purposefully uses it’s own people as human shields.
ADM

[A -DM]

”fluffy wrote:

A -DM wrote:

My thoughts have remained the same since Saddam reared his fat ugly head again, and that is that war was inevitable.
“The anti-war brigade, as far as I’m concerned are all misguided cowards, for the best part they are not concerned about stopping war, they are more concerned in showing their anti-americanism.”

Think you’re taking liberties here

**ADM: Not at all, most of the peaceful demo’s are a mix of those who geniunely wish too stop war and those who are against the US, I call them cowards because at the end of the day they do not offer a solution, they do not and cannot offer a solution, and they will be the ones who will berate our troops for their actions, too me that is cowardly.

“People forget that his world is nothing like ours, he only answers to Allah, while we try diplomacy to resolve the issue, diplomacy is not part of that world, you need be a democratic state for it to exist, his is a tyranny…diplomacy and humanatarian ideals aren’t part of his world.”

Again – making assumptions- both on religion (which many people would take offence at- most muslims are peaceful) and about the man. Where’d the assumption that all muslims are fanatics come from? Do you believe everything the media tell you?

**ADM: If you read that carefully you would realise I am speaking of one man’s world (Saddam) and the country he lives in, it is not an assumption it is a fact, the people of Iraq do not pose the threat, but they do not live in a democracy, they live live in a tyranny. Now I would really like to know how you infer that I meant the muslim world as a whole?, Muslims are a peaceful people and I have never questioned that.

“As for France, that country has no gratitude for the help it has received in the past, and I hope that if trouble reaches their borders again that they are left to deal with it by themselves, they deserve as much for their cowardly behaviour.
France and these anti-war protesters are made up of anti-americans, extremists and a large bulk of pro-Saddam supporters, they have no voice and no idea, they are all cowards.”

On the contrary, a lot of people are reluctant to go to war- it isn’t a game – many people need evidence before being prepared to inflict a terrible thing on another country, rather than just taking another person’s (who may have ulterior motives or may have recieved false intelligence) word for it.

**ADM: That’s absolute rubbish and you know it, the evidence comes from the first Iraqi war, how long are you prepared to seek this evidence, while you and other’s stall, are you stupid enough believe that during this time Saddam would not continue too obtain and possibly deploy weapons of mass destruction?
And when the evidence you seek surfaces what then?, same result…War, the evidence has already been given, the fact that plans, documents and other evidence has been verified is enough to show that Saddam was and still is lying and will continue to do so, but that is still not enough for you is it, you are still wanting to believe that somehow Saddam will conform to UN law, and too believe that he will is just folly, you apply the principles of what you believe to be a peaceful resolution to a man that doesn’t think or feel the same way you do. Like I said he has his own agenda and works in a way that is contrary too international law, surely the fact that he flouts the Geneva convention gives you enough evidence of that, the barbaric treatment of those US POW’s goes too show how your mindset and ideals simply do not apply to Mr Hussein.
The evidence of the differences between you and him are highlighted by T.V, what will it take for you too realise that diplomacy and UN inspections will not stop or hinder him, your beliefs of a peaceful outcome just don’t work in this instance, as much as you’d like too believe it would, it doesn’t, and unfortunately you, like many others are prone to think that in a civilised world a civilised outcome would work, yet your civilised approach counts for nothing when the recipient doesn’t feel the same way.

I’d like to reassure our friends in the US that the people in the UK support your cause, of course we have a large number of idiots who don’t

Since when is it idiocy to think for yourself and wish to weigh up the facts presented to you? I’d argue it’s stupid not to do so.

**ADM:The facts have been presented and anyone can say war is never good, but these facts should bring you to one conclusion, that the UN inspectors would never have acheived what they set out to do, even after all the time spent in trying too disarm him he would still continue, the UN inpectors can’t watch over a country that large indefinitely, hell they can’t even find all the evidence they needed if they spent years doing it, Saddam would simply keep moving all the pieces.
And again when the evidence is enough too satisfy you what then?, do you actually believe that the UN could hit Iraq any harder through trade restrictions than it is currently doing?, do you think that the UN could use a stronger military action other than is currently being taken.
Even as we speak Saddam continues to fight, the result would’ve been the same if the UN continued with inspections, except the war would’ve been kept on hold for months or years while Saddam continues to stockpile and produce weapons, and essentially a bigger threat is posed than the one we face now, you will look back and think what could’ve been if we had acted, while Saddam has the capability to deploy nukes and other weapons, is that truly a risk worth taking?, your moral beliefs will serve you no good when those you love die in agony from an attack that Saddam is behind.
It amazes me how many people think that not confronting Saddam will result in more peaceful world, I look around at the people who have pro-Saddam arguments, these same people were children when war last came to the gulf and they don’t know of the lies and deceit that was spun by this man then, they were too young too realise just how dangerous he was even then, well I wasn’t an idealistic youngster back then (I was 21), I saw what this man is capable of and I know he will never do as the anti-war brigade wishes him to do.

To those that oppose this opinion, to them I say ‘look at the end goal’, forget your prejudices and your hatred, look at the root cause for this trouble (Saddam) and nothing else, can you honestly believe that this one man will do what you’d like him do?, do you really think that he won’t kill you and your families just because you believe in peace?, he hates all of us and once he has the capabilty do you think he will stop too listen to your cries then, he will have the power too kill in the masses and would be ready to use it, how are you going to stop him then…because more demonstrations or more diplomacy will not stop him.
ADM

our troubles stem from the individual terrorist cells operating in our respective countries. Instead of targetting these (which is extremely difficult), we go for the static target, who couldn’t do as much damage. And if that’s the case, it’d be countries such as Iran and Algeria we’d be going after for setting up these cells (and if you want to get pedantic, in the cold war it was CIA which taught them how to do it). Evidence rather than libel please.[/quote]

**ADM:Even though terrorism is something that Saddam could realistically support, this is not the sole reason for taking him out, yes it’s harder to go for the cells, but the thinking is that the supply of weapons would need to come from a large enough organisation such as the Iraqi regime, with Iraq comes the possibility that should Saddam be successful in devoloping weapons of mass destruction (which he already has), comes the realisation that terrorists could get their hands on them, better for Iraq to have a regime that would not do that don’t you think?
THe evidence you seek would cost us dearly, when he is finally found out what do you think he will do, leave the country willingly?, or attack the aggressors with the weapons he has time to manufacture in the time it has taken to seek out this evidence?
What happens when you have this evidence and a country like France still refuses to sanction any action against Saddam?
I can’t offer any evidence to validate my opinion, but at the end of the day I do know that Saddam toys with us and preys upon our fears and hopes for a more peaceful outcome, and I do know he does this too buy himself time, what you need to ask yourself is what is he going to do with this time?
I would rather we act now and be decisive in our resolve than wait and live with a growing anxiety of an uncertain future, this action may cost hundreds or even thousands of lives, but when the risk is that waiting may eventually cost millions of lives I know we have done the right thing, we waited in WW2 and it cost the world dear, I don’t think that the world should ever run that risk again.

But I say to you, offer me another solution, show me another way, think hard about who is being dealt with here and see if you can offer me another solution, forget the anti-american rhetoric, forget the politics, forget about your own personal feelings, offer me an objective and viable solution that is not going to spill a drop of human blood.

ADM

[A -DM]

My thoughts have remained the same since Saddam reared his fat ugly head again, and that is that war was inevitable.
The anti-war brigade, as far as I’m concerned are all misguided cowards, for the best part they are not concerned about stopping war, they are more concerned in showing their anti-americanism.
One thought that has remained with me all along, if you strip away all the politics and the accusations, if you take away the fear and cowardice, you are left with one simple conclusion…Saddam Hussein is a threat to this world.
Unfortunately, this fact is lost amongst all the hatred that is poured America’s way, perhaps the American government does have an ulterior motive for this war, but who the hell cares, we all should be grateful that America is around to challenge the evil of Saddam, if there was no America then Saddam would have free rein to use weapons of mass destruction on any who oppose him, is anyone that naive to believe that Saddam will just stop researching nukes and other weapons when told to do so?
For the best part the people of the US and the UK are not stupid enough to think that if left alone Saddam would comply with world opinion or that of the UN.
People forget that his world is nothing like ours, he only answers to Allah, while we try diplomacy to resolve the issue, diplomacy is not part of that world, you need be a democratic state for it to exist, his is a tyranny…diplomacy and humanatarian ideals aren’t part of his world.
Sadly, we are left with only two options, such is the way of things, these options are diplomacy and war, diplomacy will only work amongst ourselves, it only works if the decisions of a country rest with many, in this case it rests with one man. Thus we are left with the grim reality that war is the only other option available, no one wants it, but in the end it is all that is left.
As for France, that country has no gratitude for the help it has received in the past, and I hope that if trouble reaches their borders again that they are left to deal with it by themselves, they deserve as much for their cowardly behaviour.
France and these anti-war protesters are made up of anti-americans, extremists and a large bulk of pro-Saddam supporters, they have no voice and no idea, they are all cowards.
I’d like to reassure our friends in the US that the people in the UK support your cause, of course we have a large number of idiots who don’t, as I’m sure the same is true in the US, but the majority is definitely standing by America’s side and are proud to do so.
To those that oppose this opinion, to them I say ‘look at the end goal’, forget your prejudices and your hatred, look at the root cause for this trouble (Saddam) and nothing else, can you honestly believe that this one man will do what you’d like him do?, do you really think that he won’t kill you and your families just because you believe in peace?, he hates all of us and once he has the capabilty do you think he will stop too listen to your cries then, he will have the power too kill in the masses and would be ready to use it, how are you going to stop him then…because more demonstrations or more diplomacy will not stop him.
ADM

[A -DM]

Personally I think there’s no excuse for it, if I was RDA I would sue the makers of infinity for insulting SG-1.
They could have still made a programme that worked for kids as well as adults, instead it’s taken the name Stargate and turned it into the most ridiculous cartoon ever made, I mean surely they had too rely on the viewers of SG-1 to get it off the ground, yet I can’t believe that any SG-1 fan would find this anything other than stupid and must cringe at how bad this is.
The sooner this is dropped the better.
ADM
BTW The ghost in Ghostbusters was called ‘Slimer’.

[A -DM]

You’ve probably seen it by now , but I have to say this is one of the worst cartoons ever, it has no relation to the premise of the series or the film and it’s stories are stupid and over the top, it gives a bad name to the T.V series it’s so poor, the animation is a joke, why didn’t they just go with muppets and call it Farscape it’s that bad…oh no wait, some idiot already did that!!!
ADM

[A -DM]

I like him, he does add a new dimension to SG-1, he hasn’t got the linguistic and archeological skills of Daniel, but he has got his own strong intellect, he’s a quick study and gives solutions that often are combination of what Sam and Daniel would come up with.
I don’t think he would be an extra wheel with the return of Daniel, he seems to have the scope to be more physical than Daniel, and whereas Sam has a good understanding of science and theory, Jonas has proven he’s got a good understanding of technology, particularly Go’auld.
They’ve written in him well and made him likeable and it would be a shame if he had to take a back seat with the return of Daniel.
ADM

[A -DM]

”The wrote:

Another reason Daredevil may not be doing well at the box office may be due to other factors, e.g. it being banned here in Malaysia! 👿 Looks like it’s back to the pirates again…. 😈

Why is it banned in Malaysia?

[A -DM]

I’m not saying I’m like everyone else in this opinion, but there are two shows on Sky that I simply lost interest in…Odyssey 5 and Jeremiah.
I watched the first three eps of Odyssey 5 and began to find it boring, then I couldn’t be bothered to pay anymore attention to it, when I did get back to it I had lost my bearings as to what was going on and it seemed pointless to continue to watch it, and I think therein lies the problem for shows like this.
It’s a good premise, but the way it’s played out is too long winded and doesn’t capture the imagination, for me it’s a case of coming home feeling tired and just wanting to watch something that’s easy to get into without dozing off to sleep!!!
The irony is that both shows are much better than Mutant X, but Mutant X doesn’t get bogged down by an ongoing story, it’s the acting and plots that makes it crap.
To be honest I’m not surprised that Odyssey 5 has gone this way and I expect the same too happen to Jeremiah, they are not badly done shows, in fact the acting and direction is top quality, but they don’t offer enough interest in their stories and they don’t make for compulsive viewing.
All in all, I didn’t feel any connection to the characters and so it was hard too feel for them, the 5 years they had to try and stop it happening again just seemed to be a great burden, where you just end up thinking it can only go two ways, they either save the world or they don’t, but you know deep down they will, but in all honesty I can’t be bothered too wait five years to find out.
I would probably have watched the beginning and then 5 years later caught the end just out of curiousity, but not watched anything in between because I couldn’t care less what happened in the five years running up too it.
The same for Jeremiah, he’s looking for Valhalla, well now that we know that, why bother watching anymore?, it doesn’t seem like that much of a goal anyhow.
These ideas would work well in a film or a trilogy of films, but for a long running series it’s just tedious.
I think that’s why programmes that are open with no explanation as to what might occur in the next episode are more appealing, both Jeremiah and Odyssey 5 have essentially given too much away to begin with and you are left with the feeling that each ep is not going to offer anything new.
I felt the same way after Logan’s Run, they left the dome looking for sanctuary, but after they left you kinda knew what was too come.
I think that’s why Voyager lost it’s appeal, after a while people just lost interest in whether they made it home or not, and Enterprise could easily go the same way if it were not for people perhaps wanting too know how the federation and other things came into existence, but it’s a fine balance, but I think that like TNG it will just be trying new things out in it’s stories.
I am actually surprised that Jeremiah hasn’t been given the chop before Odyssey 5, as Jeremiah offers a futuristic vision, but offers little else, at least with Odyssey 5 you get some eye candy which I feel is integral to the success of a Sci-fi show. Jeremiah is little more than a futuristic western that relies too heavily on it’s stories, and because of it’s lack of anything techie or any eye candy it smacks of cheapness, plus we’ve all seen it before, a la Mad Max.
ADM

[A -DM]

I’m gonna be really greedy and have a symbiote and one of those cool armbands that the Tok’ra gave SG-1, oh hell they didn’t work on Tok’ra or Ga’ould, but I can wish…super speed, the added strength from the armbands and symbiote, higher intellect…I’d be a god!!!, then all I’d need is a cool name like Anubis.
ADM

[A -DM]

ally wrote:

I wouldnt mind being a host, but my life would have to be in danger first or at least in pain. I am just wondering if it may reduce the amount of dates I might get.

Ah yes, but what if in your life later on you were in danger or pain?, betcha wished you had the symbiot then don’t ya!?!
As for getting less dates, no way…put it (the glowy eyes) down too a really cool party trick and you’ll have em’ lining up , or say that going to the gym really makes you feel ever so different, on the other hand no one likes a smart alec who can make their eyes glow, well unless you were named Alec and just happen to be smart…but’s that’s different.
ADM

[A -DM]

Sam did actually explain the origins of the X-303 during the mission where the hyperdrive went belly-up, it was very brief and probably the only time it was mentioned, so it’s no surprise if you missed it.
I think the secrecy thing and the surprise entrance of the Prometheus is in keeping with the show, for instance there are many things SG-1 are not aware of that go in the higher echelons of power.
Take the NID, the SGC and SG-1 only become aware of their plots by stumbling across them or when Harry Maybourne can’t keep his trap shut!!!, in fact the only person whoever seems to know what is going on is that snake in the grass Senator Kinsey…oh and Q (John De Lancie).
But having the X-303 seems fairly pointless, it would be useful if any SGC team got stranded, but it would get it’s a** kicked if it went up against a Hatak, and god damn…it is one ugly ship!!!
ADM

[A -DM]

The X-303 was not actually back engineered from from anything the SGC had in their possesion, it was created from what they had learnt from the four ships that SG-1 had captured, the two death gliders and the mistakes learnt from retro-fitting them, the captured mothership that went down with Apophis, and the Asgaard ship that crash landed in the ocean on Earth. Sam had already built a naquita reactor, so they just needed to make a larger version for the X-303.
As for the ancients, well I guess that they still wanted them to be a mystery, but now they have this tablet that shows the way to an Ancients city, they may learn more about them, especially as this city may have the only weapon capable of stopping Lord Imhotep…sorry Lord Anubis (the costume Anubis wears is almost identical to the costume worn by imhotep in the two mummy films!).
ADM

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